I think vs Brighton we ll line up as against Luton but Bruno Rashford and greenwood will come in earlier on eg after 50-60 mins.
Warning: I didn't use any crystal balls on which I based my prediction
Accumulated fatigue is a real thing.
- Thread starter Santoryo
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Warning: I didn't use any crystal balls on which I based my prediction
Trouble for us was as soon as we made only one signing, our fans and the media were already doom and gloom despite how well last season ended. We will sign a player or two, but it's clear that we are struggling financially dealing with the lockdown. Chelsea signing 60 players doesn't change that reality. It doesn't matter how big we are as a club, even though other big clubs in Barca real psg and juve have also faced the same problem, no fans means less revenue. Unlike those other clubs, I honestly feel like the club is being bullied to make transfers, and as a result the stories about us have been purposely lacking in context and overblown. I don't even blame the media, it's our fans. The ones that wanted us to finish 5th to prove a point last seasons, who have never really gotten on board with the manager and the board. Throwing mud at the clubs during a period where we have clearly shown signs of recovery isn't going to help us improve. It doesn't matter how bad we have been since fergie retired, what matters is that we are improving now.
They should have done a few of those things. Unfortunately all of your solutions result in less money so the competitions and clubs themselves would never sign-up to fewer matches willingly.
This will be a long hard season for us and a few other clubs. In saying that if we get Sancho and LB/CB we should have just about enough rotation options.
I don't think you can use the result Bayern had today as an excuse for United. Bayern played 120 minutes with their first team on Thursday while United played with a second string team on Wednesday.
Bayern had 7 players playing today who played against Sevilla with only 2.5 days rest.
Bayern had 7 players playing today who played against Sevilla with only 2.5 days rest.
Well unfortunately we have a lot of fairly stupid fans who are convinced its OGS' fault - and he should be fired
I think this is real and not just for United. Clubs that played deep into Europe obviously have it worse but everybody is dealing with the effects of a shortened break and a non-standard preseason. And everybody will now be dealing with a more congested fixture schedule.
I think it all will significantly advantage clubs out of Europe and without a lot of internationals, whose players can both rest and sharpen up during international breaks. This is why I think its completely wrong when people claim that the race for top four will require 75+ points this year. Its more likely to be a war of attrition as completely exhausted sides try to hold it together enough to scrape 68-70 points over a very long season of matches played against teams with better rested players.
I think it all will significantly advantage clubs out of Europe and without a lot of internationals, whose players can both rest and sharpen up during international breaks. This is why I think its completely wrong when people claim that the race for top four will require 75+ points this year. Its more likely to be a war of attrition as completely exhausted sides try to hold it together enough to scrape 68-70 points over a very long season of matches played against teams with better rested players.
United also have no squad depth unlike Bayern.
Ole plays the same xi match after match.
I'm surprised more clubs are not trying to get in loan signings.
You might be right. I would like some of our "star" players to play. Because there are some that are way behind where they should be.I think vs Brighton we ll line up as against Luton but Bruno Rashford and greenwood will come in earlier on eg after 50-60 mins.
Warning: I didn't use any crystal balls on which I based my prediction
League Cup is TV money for smaller teams. Cups are bigger than ever now because of that extra cash.
It's a big advantage for Liverpool whose season was basically over pre June restart.
You’re right- of course you’re right. But ... and I consider this a massive but... have you considered that Ole at one point managed Cardiff and is thus awful?!,!
Hopefully we use the game as a preseason game where the most important aspect is improving players fitness levels.
Result is less important.i wouldn't mind going out of carabao cup.
city arent tired, just penalties which dont count and freak goals. city scored two incredible corners they are absolutely at their best
it's worse than that, he got them relegated and found his level in the Norwegian league.
Bayern can and should be used to make a point about accumulated fatigue and if United are among those teams which are affected by that, which they are then it is what it is. The point is simple, teams who have had longer seasons have so far suffered which includes Bayern in this case. It's not that complicated.
It was more infuriating because some usually very sensible posters refused to let our lack of pre-season act as any leeway, saying that a 6 game difference had no effect on our match preparation against Palace. People were using City's win after 1 game saying how that proved that we didn't need a pre-season, which also didn't take into account they were playing one of the few other teams who had basically no pre-season either. I think Solskjaer's made a few mistakes, like not easing Pogba back in when he's clearly not ready, but some have been incredibly harsh on him.
Van Persie said on Norwegian TV that the first five/six games of the season was all about getting the points, and not so much about performance. You're tired and your body hurts at the start of every game, because you are not quite in shape yet.
I can see this being more true than ever this season.
I can see this being more true than ever this season.
Totally agree. We desperately need to bolster our squad. We needed to even without COVID coming along. But now it is even more vital to have squad depth to counteract fatigue and also unexpected positive COVID tests from players etc.
But United shouldn't be. Only 3 players who started against Luton started against Brighton. Every other player got a decent amount of rest time.
It's been three matches for Bayern, two of which they've won. While we were losing to Crystal Palace, they beat their opponents 8-0. So let's not act like Bayern have been struggling since the season started, it was only now after having played 120 mins 2.5 days ago did they look really out of sorts (and that could happen in any season).
This should be judged over the longer season though.
It’s not complicated. But won’t stop those who want rid of the manager for using it against him.
L.M.A.O. As if you think wolves needed a pre season. They are inevitably beating West Ham easily
Why do you keep bringing Luton in all this? It's not about how many players were rested against them, we're talking about accumulated fatigue here. It's about the long season which United have had, fatigue doesn't vanished over getting rested against Luton. It was a long season for United last year, same for City, Bayern, PSG and other teams who went deep in Europe, and that was a cause for the current accumulation of fatigue.
Bayern winning last week doesn't refute my point. City won last week too. Teams don't have to all lose in the same game week for the point to stand. This isn't some excuses for United, it's something concrete and very factual. It's beyond United as seen with teams such as PSG, City who have also had labored and rough starts to their respective campaign.
Inter won, Sevilla are doing just fine, PSG have two wins on the spin, Bayern won 8-0 in the first game and had to play extra time a few days ago,
Shakhtar have started well, RB Leipzig have started well,
Not sure that all teams who played deep into the European comps are experiencing issues.
There's context to take into consideration too, Bayern's game midweek, City playing a Leicester team who have started the season on fire, Lyon who have started slowly selling players, RB even though they've started well have sold their too scorer.
Anybody who thinks that our last 2 league performances are a reflection of our level is a moron to be perfectly honest.
Shouldn't the liverpool first 11 be suffering from accumulated fatigue by this stage however?
Shouldn't the liverpool first 11 be suffering from accumulated fatigue by this stage however?
PSG lost their first 2 games starting the season, Sevilla struggled against lowly Cadiz and won that game in added time, Bayern were on a run of 24 games unbeaten and suddenly just got trashed, City were poor against Wolves in the second half(another team who had a long season) and struggled against a championship Bournemouth. There is simply way too much proof to keep ignoring this and opt to bash United as a default impulse.
Accumulated fatigue is a real thing and an issue we're facing right now which has shown in some players playing far below their levels. It's really not that complicated but because people are so eager to bash United and join into that fun and narrative(it's cool and hip to bash United and pile on the doomsday talks) they ignore all this and chose to overreact.
Good post.
I’m sure there will be some comebacks about Man Utd not coaching the first team.
That’s madness so soon into the season and after such little break/ pre season.Spurs played today, then they play on Tuesday, then Thursday and then against us on Sunday
I’d say every manager should get a pass this year, they can’t be judged by past seasons
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The last time they had a meaningful game was June.
I know a great manager who doesn’t run players into the ground or play them when they’re not fully fit, oh wait
Great comment.
Honestly don't know why our fans don't just ignore the media. They shape the narrative and then people are falling for that.
Just stay away from the media and just look at things logically. People think we can just spend money like that. Do those people not realise the real problems we're facing as a country with this economy? it's going to be dire. The club needs to be prudent at this moment hard as it is.
Let's just calm down and see what happens.
He just dealt with respiratory virus that has killed millions.
He wasn't on holiday raising his legs.
Yeah we've seen it before with top teams after international tournaments too, although to a lesser degree given they still had a longer break than this time round and they didn't have to deal with players picking up serious illnesses on the way back. At the end of the day top (mostly European) managers have been saying the fixture list is already putting too much strain on the players, and dud to the money involved the federations have made absolutely no concessions in the interest of player wellbeing and ultimately quality on the pitch. It's amazing that corona wasn't the moment they decided to reevaluate that even temporarily. It's obvious teams won't be at 100% and teams like ours will suffer the most. Albeit you can't overlook the fact we've been poor fitness wise for a long time, so while the circumstances are clearly exceptional, we put ourselves in a very poor position to deal with them. Grouping us in with Bayern is disingenuous given they won the UEFA super cup just on Thursday and they won their opening game 8-0...
II like Ole but that's not entirely true. What matters is the degree to which we're improving and the sustainability of that rate. It's not unreasonable to question whether the improvement is a steady, gradual progression given previous evidence, not just at our club but others in similar situations. It's entirely plausible we could crash and burn this season.
II like Ole but that's not entirely true. What matters is the degree to which we're improving and the sustainability of that rate. It's not unreasonable to question whether the improvement is a steady, gradual progression given previous evidence, not just at our club but others in similar situations. It's entirely plausible we could crash and burn this season.
Mental isint it.
And now Wolves are looking at one win in three. It’s pretty clear that the 3 sides that had longer seasons because they were still in Europe are struggling.
Fatigue it's a thing but it's not an excuse for Manchester United in this particular case but yeah it's thing if a team plays consecutive seasons, performing at a highh level; dominating a league, playing the latter stages of cup competitions. Specially if you win one as then you end up playing extra games like when winning the UCL and then having to play the clubs world cup, etc.
Should we get worried?
This will affects every team. Midway, the heavy fixtures will favor the top teams with their greater squad depth. Just the starts where smaller teams can take points slightly easier.
So, are we going to use the same BS later on?
Oh wait, we will for sure, since many actually did use that to justify last season restart fixtures. And the season before that. Also the previous 2nd season before that one.
Business as usual. Fitness problem forever an excuse.
This will affects every team. Midway, the heavy fixtures will favor the top teams with their greater squad depth. Just the starts where smaller teams can take points slightly easier.
So, are we going to use the same BS later on?
Oh wait, we will for sure, since many actually did use that to justify last season restart fixtures. And the season before that. Also the previous 2nd season before that one.
Business as usual. Fitness problem forever an excuse.
Spurs played today, then they play on Tuesday, then Thursday and then against us on Sunday
They'll beat us too.
Everyone else plays. It's their job.
It's also plausible that we could challenge with improvements in some of our players. We could really improve and we have that room within the players we already have. For me its just a negative mentality. We all know what is and has been wrong with this team and the club has tried to address it in the last two years. Let's give them room to do that. I don't think anyone saw us in 19-20 and saw a team that could win the league. The idea was that this rebuild would take time and that our last attempts to spend massively to make quick fixes failed. So if this is true and this was the request from both fans and the media ( aswell as bringing back the clubs identity), then why don't we just let that happen.
So about that...