Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[el3mel]

Might as well hire Gary Neville or Scholes after Ole then. They are also true to the value of the club.

 

[Craig Ward]

Well it does. But we all know what you are going to say. We don’t back managers in the transfer market. So it’s one identified problem which still doesn’t excuse poor performance especially when you get £80m CB’s and expensive midfielders.

We do back managers - we backed LVG, we gave Mourinho money, we let Moyes spunk 30mil on Fellaini.

The issue is lack of direction/lack of transfer strategy.

With each manager, the board initially starts being generous with transfers but when it doesnt pan out they dont sign primary targets, lose confidence, sack/repeat.

The issue is: Each manager has wildly different ideas how to play/players they want so we've ended up with such a disjointed squad each new managerial appointment needs 3 or 4 windows to re-shape the squad they want - but will never get there because the board wont allow them the time.

I guarantee you none of our managers since SAF have been happy with the squad.

If we had a structure, a DOF and football people making the big decisions we wouldn't be in this mess.

We also over pay for average players, due to Woodward/Judge.

EG:
Maguire: We overpaid by 30-40Mil easy. A competent transfer plan would have identified Maguire as target #1. If we couldnt get him for a reasonable price, then move on to target #2. You cant tell me at the time of buying Maguire there wasnt a single CB in world football that we could have got who would be just as good and cost half the money. It's just piss poor scouting and negotiating

Pogba: A glory signing from Jose. An intent that we are back amongst the big boys. Well that backfired. Anyone could tell our squad needed more work and structure than a Real Madrid type big name signing. Completely the wrong signing for the wrong reasons

I could go on - we've been a shambles behind the scenes for nearly a decade

 

[El Zoido]

Three of the top four threads on the caf right now are basically “Ole out” threads, it’s really quite sad. Personally I think he’s been overall very positive for the club and we’d do well to stick with him for the foreseeable future, but you get the feeling he’ll be hounded out by the fans. Eventually if we fire enough managers maybe we’ll land on one that can win us the league. Might take another 10, 15, even 20 managers though.

 

[My only Eric]

I find it difficult to support him, when he persists with the 4231 that has been found out by every manager in the league.
4231 actually plays to our weakness, not our strength because
1) Pogba is no DM
2) Matic's legs can no longer carry him about quickly.
3)This leaves our defense exposed
4)Our defense is too slow or weak

These are just some reasons why this formation is bad for us.

The question, is that if I and every other manager in the league can see this, why can't Ole and his coaching staff?

Why do the same thing over and over and expect a different result?

 

[b82REZ]

What a silly childlike comment to make.

Absolute pathetic

He's right though.

When you apply your logic for keeping for keeping Ole, due to his connection with the club, why is it pathetic when people point out your hypocrisy?

 

[Foxbatt]

Questions to the Ole Out people:

After Ole was allowed to make a couple of signings in mid 2019, his results have generally been good when he can field his first XI(or something close to it). The exception has been the beginning of this season.

What do you make of this? And do you think our bench is strong enough for our results to remain good even when key players are missing? EDIT: strong enough before we signed all the players near the end of the latest transfer window.

Ole has been criticized for lacking tactically nous. In fact, this is the most common complaint. However, his record against strong opponents is actually brilliant, even when he lacks key players. What do you think is a better indicator of tactical nous: beating tough opponents, or breaking down weaker opponents?

It is because now everyone realised that we play one way and that is counter attack. If we do not get space behind their defence we cannot play well. When we counter attack our defense is still in defending mode and our attackers get away from their defence with ease. When that does not happen and we have to attack we leave a lot of space not only behind our defence but also between our attackers and our midfield and our midfield and our defence. Our CBs are too slow to play a high defence line and if the other team are defending and packed, then our defence is forced to move up the pitch or else they leave too much space in between. We are not good enough to play possession football in the final third. Our movements off the ball is terrible and has been terrible since LVG left.
Pep will play one way and one way only. Some days you can beat him and some days he will beat you. But most times his teams will beat you. Klopp is different. He will adjust his team most of the time. He does not know to bring about changes most of the time during matches when the equilibrium swings the other way. He is too rigid in his structure. Sometimes it is not possible to play with 3 forwards playing so wide. Yes he keeps doing this time and again. A midfield of Pogba and Matic could be over run but he cannot know how to sort this by dropping a forward and get a midfield player and push Bruno a bit forward. He does not seem to understand that the CF needs someone close to him to be able to play the best. He does not get our players to pass and get them to put their head down and sprint forward and pass when there is no other options.

But he could be doing all these things to get it right and the players could be absolutely refusing to do what he wants them to do for all I know.

 

[Craig Ward]

He's right though.

When you apply your logic for keeping for keeping Ole, due to his connection with the club, why is it pathetic when people point out your hypocrisy?

Because thats not the only reason. it's not hypocrisy.

The next manager will fail under this ownership too, and the next, and the next. The problem isn;t Ole - it's the board /owners. Sacking ole just means we get to watch another manager have 2 years at trying and failing.

Ole was thrown in because Jose, a supposed world class manager turned us into an absolute shambles and alienated half the dressing room. At least ole has brought some togetherness and wants the players to be proud to be at this club. We were soulless under Jose

 

[Foxbatt]

Because thats not the only reason. it's not hypocrisy.

The next manager will fail under this ownership too, and the next, and the next. The problem isn;t Ole - it's the board /owners. Sacking ole just means we get to watch another manager have 2 years at trying and failing.

Ole was thrown in because Jose, a supposed world class manager turned us into an absolute shambles and alienated half the dressing room. At least ole has brought some togetherness and wants the players to be proud to be at this club. We were soulless under Jose

So a mediocre manager and a mid table position is alright for you? Not for me for United.

 

[OleBoiii]

It is because now everyone realised that we play one way and that is counter attack. If we do not get space behind their defence we cannot play well. When we counter attack our defense is still in defending mode and our attackers get away from their defence with ease. When that does not happen and we have to attack we leave a lot of space not only behind our defence but also between our attackers and our midfield and our midfield and our defence. Our CBs are too slow to play a high defence line and if the other team are defending and packed, then our defence is forced to move up the pitch or else they leave too much space in between. We are not good enough to play possession football in the final third. Our movements off the ball is terrible and has been terrible since LVG left.
Pep will play one way and one way only. Some days you can beat him and some days he will beat you. But most times his teams will beat you. Klopp is different. He will adjust his team most of the time. He does not know to bring about changes most of the time during matches when the equilibrium swings the other way. He is too rigid in his structure. Sometimes it is not possible to play with 3 forwards playing so wide. Yes he keeps doing this time and again. A midfield of Pogba and Matic could be over run but he cannot know how to sort this by dropping a forward and get a midfield player and push Bruno a bit forward. He does not seem to understand that the CF needs someone close to him to be able to play the best. He does not get our players to pass and get them to put their head down and sprint forward and pass when there is no other options.

But he could be doing all these things to get it right and the players could be absolutely refusing to do what he wants them to do for all I know.

So that's it then? Ole has finally been found out? The poor results in the first 4 games has nothing to do with the fact that most teams that played in the European knockout stages(both EL and CL) have been worse than normal in the season opening? It can't be bad form?

 

[el3mel]

Because thats not the only reason. it's not hypocrisy.

The next manager will fail under this ownership too, and the next, and the next. The problem isn;t Ole - it's the board /owners. Sacking ole just means we get to watch another manager have 2 years at trying and failing.

Ole was thrown in because Jose, a supposed world class manager turned us into an absolute shambles and alienated half the dressing room. At least ole has brought some togetherness and wants the players to be proud to be at this club. We were soulless under Jose

So the current problem is the board/ownership, not Ole, but with Mourinho, it wasn't, the manager was, and you think that's not hypocrisy ?

Beside Ole was hired at the start as a caretaker manager till we get a permanent. He was never meant to be the full manager. We just got deluded by his honeymoon period and jumped the gun to hire him earlier. If we had waited to give him the role till the end of this season and witnessed the dreadful run of results that followed the honeymoon period, he would have never, ever been appointed.

 

[lolok]

Realistically I see us getting:
3 points vs Newcastle.
0pts vs PSG
1pt vs Leipzig
1-2 points over Chelsea + Arsenal

That's not terrible but it's certainly not an upswing. It'll be enough to keep him in the job I bet.

United have looked like a dumpster fire in all 3 EPL games. I am not confident at all that they can get a win vs Newcastle. I think that game could be the end of Ole IF United lose AND it looks like the players have given up on him.

With Chelsea, Arsenal an Everton happening after the Newcastle game-- United have a tough decision to make. Can Ole turn it around? If United end up with like 1 point in 9 vs Chelsea ,Arsenal ,Everton-- then top 4 could be out of reach 7 games into the season.

If Ed thinks the players have given up on Ole-- then really, how much of a chance does Ole have to continue? Serious question. I'm thinking slim. If the players don't quit on Ole, then he gets more of a leash IMO. We'll see this weekend-- how do the players perform vs Newcastle. Can Ole start to go on a run, or will the bad run of form in the league continue?

 

[VP89]

United have looked like a dumpster fire in all 3 EPL games. I am not confident at all that they can get a win vs Newcastle. I think that game could be the end of Ole IF United lose AND it looks like the players have given up on him.

With Chelsea, Arsenal an Everton happening after the Newcastle game-- United have a tough decision to make. Can Ole turn it around? If United end up with like 1 point in 9 vs Chelsea ,Arsenal ,Everton-- then top 4 could be out of reach 7 games into the season.

If Ed thinks the players have given up on Ole-- then really, how much of a chance does Ole have to continue? Serious question. I'm thinking slim. If the players don't quit on Ole, then he gets more of a leash IMO. We'll see this weekend-- how do the players perform vs Newcastle. Can Ole start to go on a run, or will the bad run of form in the league continue?

Unless we get spanked 5-0 to Newcastle, Ole isn't getting sacked that early.

Think Ed is going to show a lot more patience with him yet, which is the concern. He might allow time even if he fails, all the way until the next internationals (mid-November). Depending on which teams have taken off by then, top 4 might be cooked.

 

[Withnail]

So that's it then? Ole has finally been found out? The poor results in the first 4 games has nothing to do with the fact that most teams that played in the European knockout stages(both EL and CL) have been worse than normal in the season opening? It can't be bad form?

How anyone can draw these types of conclusions and be so sure about them after three games really is baffling.

A month off and everyone had a eureka moment and figured out how to beat us?

More evidence is surely needed.

 

[Foxbatt]

So that's it then? Ole has finally been found out? The poor results in the first 4 games has nothing to do with the fact that most teams that played in the European knockout stages(both EL and CL) have been worse than normal in the season opening? It can't be bad form?

Fatigue will come not at the start of the match. It will come in the latter part of the matches. Our lack of structure and our lack of movements has got nothing to do with it. It is what is not being done on the training ground. Our set pieces have got nothing to do with playing in the latter part of the EL. On the other hand it should have been better because we played more. Having a bad set up and formation has everything to do with the manager.
He has been found out a long time back. Only the individual brilliance got us out of trouble most of the time not the tactical nuance of the manger or his coaches.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Our fixtures are awful before the next international break. Need to get results in the big games and certainly beat Newcastle. If not top 4 will look very far away and the title will look impossible to get even with a world class manager in.

 

[OleBoiii]

He has been found out a long time back. Only the individual brilliance got us out of trouble most of the time not the tactical nuance of the manger or his coaches.

So when we're winning, it's because of the great individual performances of our players and when we lose it's because Solskjær is a poor manager.

Got it.

 

[rotherham_red]

Three of the top four threads on the caf right now are basically “Ole out” threads, it’s really quite sad. Personally I think he’s been overall very positive for the club and we’d do well to stick with him for the foreseeable future, but you get the feeling he’ll be hounded out by the fans. Eventually if we fire enough managers maybe we’ll land on one that can win us the league. Might take another 10, 15, even 20 managers though.

Almost fully agree mate.

Having no fans at OT has made it worse, as the pulse check is now almost exclusively going to be social media and online-based, and as we can see, the loudest get heard as opposed to those who are more numerous.

 

[Amir]

What do you make of this? And do you think our bench is strong enough for our results to remain good even when key players are missing? EDIT: strong enough before we signed all the players near the end of the latest transfer window.

Ole has been criticized for lacking tactically nous. In fact, this is the most common complaint. However, his record against strong opponents is actually brilliant, even when he lacks key players. What do you think is a better indicator of tactical nous: beating tough opponents, or breaking down weaker opponents?

I don't think Solskjaer is bad tactically. I think he's quite adept as setting his team up for certain matches, certainly the stronger sides when he can counter using our pacey forward line, but at a club like United you need to take it a level higher and instill a style of play that sustains you week in, week out - with the odd tweak.

For me, it also relevant to the bench question. We obviously don't have the bench to make wholsale changes and maintain our level, but I believe that when you have that system you can make a couple of changes, use a couple of player who are inferior to our regular starters, and still do well.

 

[Amir]

So when we're winning, it's because of the great individual performances of our players and when we lose it's because Solskjær is a poor manager.

Got it.

When we win, it's because he assembled and played that bunch of individuals capable of great performances.

When we lose, it's because he's incapable of backing it up with anything more.

 

[BR7]

Why are there so many people who get so hung up on their football playing idols that they get so blinkered about them?

 

[OleBoiii]

When we win, it's because he assembled and played that bunch of individuals capable of great performances.

When we lose, it's because he's incapable of backing it up with anything more.

I did some math. If we look at the PL games from the 2019-2020 season and remove certain games by adding a simple variable: "Only include games where either Pogba or Bruno is present", then we're left with 18 games, which is basically half a season. Keep in mind that other key players could be injured(Martial, Rashford etc), but the games would still count. All I ask is that we have another AM than Lingard, Pereira and Mata.

With this simple variable in mind, Solskjær averages almost 2.1 points per game. Over the course of a season, that is 79.8 points. That is practically title challenge form when he has a half-competent team to work with.

I then ask you this: is our first team really title challenger material? I don't think so. We're at least 2 top players away from that.

I will admit that the first 4 games of this season have taken a massive dump on Solskjær's resume in terms of performing well when he has his first XI. But let's give it some more time, shall we?

 

[b82REZ]

Because thats not the only reason. it's not hypocrisy.

The next manager will fail under this ownership too, and the next, and the next. The problem isn;t Ole - it's the board /owners. Sacking ole just means we get to watch another manager have 2 years at trying and failing.

Ole was thrown in because Jose, a supposed world class manager turned us into an absolute shambles and alienated half the dressing room. At least ole has brought some togetherness and wants the players to be proud to be at this club. We were soulless under Jose

So a massively hypocritical post and yet you're not being hypocritical?

I'd rather have someone trying for the next 2 years and seeing some sort of progression, than seeing Ole, a man clearly out of his depth, make the same mistakes he's been making since he joined.

We will always have purple patches under his stewardship, as has been the case throughout his tenure. But these patches are not enough when you manage the supposedly biggest club in the country. We can bemoan his lack of investment this summer, but there are plenty of other managers in the league that would love have just half of Ole's budget. Despite people using that as an excuse to let him off the hook for the shite he's served up since the season started, he's still invested a substantial amount during his time. He's been supported as much as the other managers (except Moyes) and they were deemed not good enough. Ole has shown less than them in most regards, yet he makes a certain type of supporter feel warm and fuzzy inside so we should keep him?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think for a manager to succeed under this board and by that I mean winning the PL and challenging for the champions league he has to be;

1) Tactically good
2) Ambitious
3) Knows how to get the players to punch above their weight (this is the most important trait)

I'm positive if a manager was ever to succeed under our incompetent board he would have these three traits

 

[FatherWolff]

Might as well hire Gary Neville or Scholes after Ole then. They are also true to the value of the club.

Might as well hire Pep Guardiola... If the Club wants transit, but won’t let managers build their squad. What’s the point? The board and owners are thriving under idiots thinking the managers are the problem. How the feck do we know anything about what goes on about coaching etc? Because we are football experts and know the how? The last 7 years!? “We can see it with tactic and patterns of play? Do people really think tactics is about formations? The board is lucky we have so many bandwagon fans, as it’s the only way they keep getting away with it..

 

[el3mel]

Might as well hire Pep Guardiola... If the Club wants transit, but won’t let managers build their squad. What’s the point? The board and owners are thriving under idiots thinking the managers are the problem. How the feck do we know anything about what goes on about coaching etc? Because we are football experts and know the how? The last 7 years!? “We can see it with tactic and patterns of play? Do people really think tactics is about formations? The board is lucky we have so many bandwagon fans, as it’s the only way they keep getting away with it..

Not sure what's this about. The guy was saying Ole is our best manager post SAF because he's true to the value of the club. Ok, let's hire Gary Neville and Scholes after him then, they'll be true to it as well. Ridiculous point to make and I was making fun of it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

So when we're winning, it's because of the great individual performances of our players and when we lose it's because Solskjær is a poor manager.

Got it.

Works both ways if you're in either extreme camp (Ole in): We win and it's his genius and when we lose it's a list of excuses. Neither side is right and the truth, as it usually does, lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[FatherWolff]

Not sure what's this about. The guy was saying Ole is our best manager post SAF because he's true to the value of the club. Ok, let's hire Gary Neville and Scholes after him then, they'll be true to it as well. Ridiculous point to make and I was making fun of it.

No it is not. He is and has been doing the only thing right. Try and bring the identity back and build a core group of players. It is just as unstable as expected to be, if anyone has been watching football for more than five minutes.
The last thing the club needs now is another manager shift.

 

[glazed]

Questions to the Ole Out people:
Ole has been criticized for lacking tactically nous. In fact, this is the most common complaint. However, his record against strong opponents is actually brilliant, even when he lacks key players. What do you think is a better indicator of tactical nous: beating tough opponents, or breaking down weaker opponents?

You have to be able to do both. Even when you are having an off day. If your players are well drilled in a better tactic they will win even if they execute it not very well.

 

[Foxbatt]

No it is not. He is and has been doing the only thing right. Try and bring the identity back and build a core group of players. It is just as unstable as expected to be, if anyone has been watching football for more than five minutes.
The last thing the club needs now is another manager shift.

The best thing that can happen is get a better manager than Ole. The owners are not going to go no matter what. So the other option is to get a more capable manager. What identity? It is all a myth. I have been following United since 1967. We have been terrible at times and brilliant at times. United always got young players and always got the top end draw by paying big money. Always. There is no different in appointing Ole and Wilf McGuiness. Both have the same kind of pedigree with Wilf at least being the assistant manager to Sir Matt. Both will have the same experience.

 

[patty123]

Questions to the Ole Out people:
Ole has been criticized for lacking tactically nous. In fact, this is the most common complaint. However, his record against strong opponents is actually brilliant, even when he lacks key players.

So is Roy Hogdson with lesser players, shall we hire him.

Might as well hire Gary Neville or Scholes after Ole then. They are also true to the value of the club.

He just sacked the guy who got them promoted and has them 5th, so he could take his job given his failure at Oldham.

 

[Random Task]

The best thing that can happen is get a better manager than Ole. The owners are not going to go no matter what. So the other option is to get a more capable manager. What identity? It is all a myth. I have been following United since 1967. We have been terrible at times and brilliant at times. United always got young players and always got the top end draw by paying big money. Always. There is no different in appointing Ole and Wilf McGuiness. Both have the same kind of pedigree with Wilf at least being the assistant manager to Sir Matt. Both will have the same experience.

I'm still Ole In for the time being, not because I believe he is the best manager available us right now, but because any new manager we employ will undoubtedly suffer the same problems as Ole and his predecessors. That same recurring problem that has plagued us ever since SAF retired, namely Ed Woodward.

Dispose of Ed, begin anew.

 

[FatherWolff]

The best thing that can happen is get a better manager than Ole. The owners are not going to go no matter what. So the other option is to get a more capable manager. What identity? It is all a myth. I have been following United since 1967. We have been terrible at times and brilliant at times. United always got young players and always got the top end draw by paying big money. Always. There is no different in appointing Ole and Wilf McGuiness. Both have the same kind of pedigree with Wilf at least being the assistant manager to Sir Matt. Both will have the same experience.

You haven’t got a clue what you are talking about mate! Find me ONE quote about Oles lacking coaching or manager qualities from any player. You can search 10 years back! You wont find one, mate. How many can you find that no manager can succseed under the current board? Culture is what every business, sport success or ANY success is built on. Either you know, or you don’t.

I’m out of posts. But you can’t find a single player of Ole supporting your view. Not a single one! You can find the opposite though. But you know best?

 

[Mainoldo]

We do back managers - we backed LVG, we gave Mourinho money, we let Moyes spunk 30mil on Fellaini.

The issue is lack of direction/lack of transfer strategy.

With each manager, the board initially starts being generous with transfers but when it doesnt pan out they dont sign primary targets, lose confidence, sack/repeat.

The issue is: Each manager has wildly different ideas how to play/players they want so we've ended up with such a disjointed squad each new managerial appointment needs 3 or 4 windows to re-shape the squad they want - but will never get there because the board wont allow them the time.

I guarantee you none of our managers since SAF have been happy with the squad.

If we had a structure, a DOF and football people making the big decisions we wouldn't be in this mess.

We also over pay for average players, due to Woodward/Judge.

EG:
Maguire: We overpaid by 30-40Mil easy. A competent transfer plan would have identified Maguire as target #1. If we couldnt get him for a reasonable price, then move on to target #2. You cant tell me at the time of buying Maguire there wasnt a single CB in world football that we could have got who would be just as good and cost half the money. It's just piss poor scouting and negotiating

Pogba: A glory signing from Jose. An intent that we are back amongst the big boys. Well that backfired. Anyone could tell our squad needed more work and structure than a Real Madrid type big name signing. Completely the wrong signing for the wrong reasons

I could go on - we've been a shambles behind the scenes for nearly a decade

I agree and disagree.

The board are slow with negotiations and quite Frankly not very good at it.

However they spend within their budget and providing the player is attainable and within budget the manager gets their targets.

How they do when they arrive is soley down to the manager. I can’t blame the board for us have two CB’s that don’t suit, a RB that can’t attack and a back up winger who has no football intelligence for the top level.

I can’t also blame the board for employing a system that does not suit the team or players with weak mentality.

 

[el3mel]

No it is not. He is and has been doing the only thing right. Try and bring the identity back and build a core group of players. It is just as unstable as expected to be, if anyone has been watching football for more than five minutes.
The last thing the club needs now is another manager shift.

If you or any other believe no other manager can do more than what Ole did, does that mean he's the best manager in the world then ? So that no other manager in the world will do better than him regarding this identity and rebuild.

 

[Foxbatt]

You haven’t got a clue about what you are talking about mate! Find me ONE quote about Oles lacking coaching or manager qualities from any player. You can search 10 years back! You wont find one, mate. How many can you find that no manager can succseed under the current board? Culture is what every business, sport success or ANY success is built on. Either you know, or you don’t.

Don't need to just watch or listen to any ex player explain how he got stuck. Just because he has played doesn't mean he is capable of coaching a top side. I can't be bothered to write every time someone asks a question. Just look at what I have written on this yesterday about why he should be changed and the reasons too. He is a mediocre coach and not a top coach. It is pointless harping about Ed Woodward because so long as The Glazers are here they are not going to sack him. No matter how much tantrum people throw they are not going to sell it. The only thing that can be changed is to get a top manager.

 

[dove]

Because thats not the only reason. it's not hypocrisy.

The next manager will fail under this ownership too, and the next, and the next. The problem isn;t Ole - it's the board /owners. Sacking ole just means we get to watch another manager have 2 years at trying and failing.

Ole was thrown in because Jose, a supposed world class manager turned us into an absolute shambles and alienated half the dressing room. At least ole has brought some togetherness and wants the players to be proud to be at this club. We were soulless under Jose

Funny, Liverpool supporters said exactly the same about their board until they found a top class manager. Their board is still crap just like ours, they money pinch even more than us but what a difference a manager can make, who knew?

 

[Class of 63]

Next few fixtures could do him in.

Or it could be the start of something beautiful.

 

[zenith]

Ole has done well when his back is against the wall. I'd give him more time.

This season is going to be a roller coaster and every big team will see shock results and performance. I'm hoping that ole will see sense in not shoehorning players and have the guts to drop non performers.

 

[Class of 63]

Whatever way you look at it, I think Mauricio Pochettino will be Manchester United manager.

Think he should go off and Manage a big club first, Manchester United whoever the CEO/Owners are is too big a job for him at the moment.

 

[Class of 63]

Yes, I do agree, but it's the dressing room bust up at half time in Spurs game that concerns me most. I just hope that Ole can control this getting out of hand like last season. Lukaku labeled us as being clanish.

There's nowt wrong with dressing room bust ups up whether at half-time or full-time, it's shows enough people care.

I'd be more concerned if there wasn't the occasional flare-up.

All clubs have cliques, you'll never change that, if you had all English lads they'd still be those from the N.E, the REAL North, Brummies, and the lads from London/SE sticking together ....