Expand on that.
Do you mean that the manager here doesn’t choose the players that come in?
Or do you mean the shit show of us not landing every big money target we have?
There’s a feeling of inevitability about Ole losing his job
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Do you mean that the manager here doesn’t choose the players that come in?
Or do you mean the shit show of us not landing every big money target we have?
The players we currently have are not good enough to have United challenging for top honours, and our recruitment team, board and owners are unable / unwilling to buy the players the manager feels necessary to do so.
I think any manager here has very slim pickings of who we can sign, more often than not we end up with plan c,d, e etc which as a manager you can’t blame them as it’s better to have a reasonable something over nothing. We are still paying the very high price for very poor recruitment pre Ole. We all know we need a CB but the club won’t sanction a new one as we have several duffers on the books from previous regime
The ‘not good enough’ players you refer to were bought at the request of Manchester United managers. Including this one. Some entitled fans just can’t get their heads around sometimes not being able to sign a player we want.
Cant see that happening this year unless there is a dramatic uplift from the players and tactics
He’s no different to any other manager, if he doesn’t perform he gets sacked, he’s started season so badly that he could be on verge in few games.
We took a punt on Ole based on unlikely event that he has under achieved his whole career and is a much better manager than CV suggests.
We took a punt on Ole based on unlikely event that he has under achieved his whole career and is a much better manager than CV suggests.
Your question was to expand on the statement that nobody would take United to honours, I offered a reason. It doesn’t matter if the players were all wanted by United managers including Ole, the players here are not good enough to win titles.
Regarding the signing of players it’s clear that this summer they didn’t sign the players Ole wanted, as well as the previous summer when he wanted Bruno.
I didnt, then in that case send them to train with the kids, players, their agents and the clubs turned football from sport into business, well that's fine, like any other buisness do your damn job or suffer for it.
Who knows what order of preference the players are? It’s a tale the press spin in hindsight. With Ole, for example, there is every indication that Maguire was his first choice. That Wan Bissaka was his first choice. And yes, managers will get second and third choices until the end of time, due to the simple fact that we aren’t the only team in the market and more than one club cannot sign the same player.
Take Bellingham for example. People just go ‘ahh, shit recruitment team’. Players have choices, he went somewhere else. If his wish was to come to United, we’d have signed him. Reguilon and Haaland we opted against due to clauses insisted on, according to reports.
Ole’s ‘first choices’ are hardly that fecking creative. They are the best players on the market. It’s easy to walk into work and say ‘my first choice winger is Sancho and centre half is Upamecano’, and then throw a strop if they are not landed. These players are not easy to sign, and no club in recent times, maybe except Barcelona, has been able to just go and sign all of those types of players with similar status. City, Real - they have all missed out on players like Pogba, Sanchez, Havertz, Lautaro etc. If those are the sort of players managers are demanding before throwing a strop about recruitment teams and directors of football, they should go and get a PlayStation. There is little indication that we can’t sign some of the more attainable players easily. We, or almost any other club, will never be able to just land all the best players on the market.
No it wasn’t really, it was to expand on the declaration that our recruitment team and ‘inability and unwillingness to sign players‘ was the reason for any prospective manager being unable to lead us to honours.
And Ole demanded all the best players on the market this summer. Sometimes, it’s not possible to sign all the best players on the market you know. And there’s little indication we wanted Bruno last summer, and he’s an odd example anyway as he’s a bloody Manchester United player!
Tough set of fixtures next 6/7 games. Already feels like he is under pressure. Wasnt backed in the window and and if the bad form continues we may see more links to Poch intensify before the end of the year.
A lot of sensible posters entering the debate in the last few hours, it's good to see.
points noted. Not suggesting for one minute a united manager should land all the first choice players. The bigger issue is the recruitment has been too poor for too long and it takes a long time to overhaul then and rectify that even if we don’t get our first or second choice each time. Look at Fernandes for example- obvious we wanted him in summer. Obvious he’s a good player. We didn’t do a doable deal In summer and got him in january. We managed to rectify the season through good management and a bit of good luck. Why didn’t we just do the deal in summer and it wouldn’t have required that monumental post lock down run. A run one could argue has sapped our energy for the start of this season
All managers will lose their job. It's just at this club, the position of manager doesn't seem to have any real weight behind it anymore. Managers get sacked all the time, but I don't see so much toxicity at other clubs.
I mean when Ole took over after Mourinho I didn't know what to expect but you'd expect United to behave differently, as was his plan he spoked about and we all agreed that even if he end up sucking as a manager, that is a change we can all get behind. However, the merry go round with swapping managers after not backing them is a sign of a club that is ran poorly, and it seems to have overridden any prospect of positive change around the club. If Ole hadn't come off a decent season with prospect of improving further, the feeling could be justified. To place too much blame on the current manager is wrong from the board, as it is not pressure that can improve the chances of a manager making it, it will only unsettle the players and make it harder for any coach.
Put unrealistic expectations with minimal funds and a lot of pressure and it is likely to transpire as failure, even if you get Van Gaal or Mourinho.. Heck we could even try with an up and coming coach or Klopp or Guardiola, you think they would make everyone around the club happy? The disneyworld board at this club will focus on pressuring them, and blame them for risking their money and they'll also get the sack after a period of bad results or lack of trophies. The media would be negative and out in full force with a manager like Guardiola too, it would just be "Guardiola threatens to leave" and shit like that instead of the reverse like now, because of his profile.
I mean when Ole took over after Mourinho I didn't know what to expect but you'd expect United to behave differently, as was his plan he spoked about and we all agreed that even if he end up sucking as a manager, that is a change we can all get behind. However, the merry go round with swapping managers after not backing them is a sign of a club that is ran poorly, and it seems to have overridden any prospect of positive change around the club. If Ole hadn't come off a decent season with prospect of improving further, the feeling could be justified. To place too much blame on the current manager is wrong from the board, as it is not pressure that can improve the chances of a manager making it, it will only unsettle the players and make it harder for any coach.
Put unrealistic expectations with minimal funds and a lot of pressure and it is likely to transpire as failure, even if you get Van Gaal or Mourinho.. Heck we could even try with an up and coming coach or Klopp or Guardiola, you think they would make everyone around the club happy? The disneyworld board at this club will focus on pressuring them, and blame them for risking their money and they'll also get the sack after a period of bad results or lack of trophies. The media would be negative and out in full force with a manager like Guardiola too, it would just be "Guardiola threatens to leave" and shit like that instead of the reverse like now, because of his profile.
The recruitment has been poor, but there is no obvious solution to that. We could have bought Sancho, and he underwhelms. What would people say then? We’ve bought Alexis Sanchez and he’s underwhelmed. Di Maria and he’s underwhelmed. Smashed the world record on Paul Pogba and the consensus seems to be that he’s underwhelmed to. Recruitment has been poor largely in hindsight. Managers have been backed, players they have wanted have been bought, and those players have played worse here than they have elsewhere. No point blaming Woodward or whoever that Lindelöf isn’t all that. Or Bailly. I doubt Ed Woodward went abroad to watch them and decided to buy them. We will continue to buy players requested, and then the manager needs to make it work. I think that on the whole, our managers have failed more than the recruitment. You mention Fernandes. The bigger issue is why he is looking progressively worse rather than what month we signed him. That is something not happening at other clubs. Players are improving more, because their managers seem to have a plan of what to do with them.
There was no indication that we really wanted Bruno last summer. If anything, we probably wanted him THIS summer, but brought it forward due to injuries in January. There was a lot of talk in the summer, but no talks between the clubs and no bids. Only from Spurs. It seems he’s a player we liked, that doesn’t mean he was a player we wanted to bring in last summer. There was no ‘it went down to the wire’ saga last summer which we then picked up in Jan. We had spent out 150m last summer and probably had Bruno on the watch list for a future window.
The "romantic old united card" is literally the only strategy the club has. This is not a leadership team that has the ability to create an innovative management structure to lead the club back to a period of success.
"Let's get back to how we did it before" is literally their only strategy and only hope of success.
If Ole leaves, it's back to square one and there's a very real possibility that the major investments the club has made will lose value under another manager.
Ole placed major faith in Maguire, Wan Bissaka and Bruno and clearly sees them as long term investments. A new manager may not rate any of them. Another £200m down the drain.
That sort of strategy was completely unsustainable pre COVID. Now, it could be absolutely disastrous.
your first paragraph is exactly why we need a director of football. We hired bad managers who bought bad players not suited to our. We chucked money at unsuitable players and we are paying the price for it now and will do for a while yet
I don’t buy that ‘we bought players not suited to our club’. The ‘club’ doesn’t play matches. A manager just needs to buy players that are suited to HIM. And despite doing that, there seems to be little evidence of a plan on the pitch.
I don’t pretend to have the answers, and I’m not even saying a DoF will not help, I‘m just one of those who are against the declaration that one is required for us to be a winning football team. The way I see it, a football club is a list of football decisions that need to be made. Any club just needs to get those decisions right. Whatever the job title of the person or persons making them. I don’t see our ‘structure’ as an issue - we don’t have a DoF, but we don’t leave those decisions unattended. In the absence of a Director, other people are ma those decisions. Some of them we have gotten wrong. What I just reject is the notion that getting a Director makes the decisions correct going forward. I just think way too much credence is given to the title, and everyone is fixated on the role and assumes to be experts in club structure.
A Director of Football is capable of choosing a poor manager. He is capable of choosing poor players. I guess when that happens, we just change the record to ‘we need a new Director of Football’. Ultimately, we are left with the same decisions to make, regardless of who is making them. Which is why I’m not caught up on the structure stuff. It’s a red herring if you ask me. Barcelona have a Director of Football and have spent poorly, amongst many other catastrophic decisions. Having a DoF means nothing to me. If you decide you don’t want a DoF to oversee recruitment, but instead a team of 4 guys, so be it. Just do it well! And if it isn’t going well, the solution could just as easily be to get a better 4 guys than to get a Director. The structure doesn’t matter, and if it does, you, I, or the other journalists playing expert have little clue to which extent.
Given the outlay from the club these past few years (a lot), I do feel that defeat in Saturday will see him right on the edge - if not sacked.
look at the fixtures ahead - we could be sat in 3-5 points after 8 games unless we improve massively, which looks hard to imagine given how poor every player has been.
The club will not tolerate such a low points tally and sat in the bottom 3 with a quarter of the league games played. It’s not inconceivable when you reflect on our current form.
look at the fixtures ahead - we could be sat in 3-5 points after 8 games unless we improve massively, which looks hard to imagine given how poor every player has been.
The club will not tolerate such a low points tally and sat in the bottom 3 with a quarter of the league games played. It’s not inconceivable when you reflect on our current form.
I feel the inevitability is United being shit. And that leads to one thing in football. I also feel it's inevitable that the next manager will get sacked in two years because we know the problems lie with the owners and ceo
The same feeling was around Di Matteo too. When a manager is under qualified that inevitable feeling of the sack around the corner will be there.
Move Ole to DoF. He understands the club and is clearly trying to bring the traditions of the club back. He seems to have an understanding of the type of player that would suit and I can see him working well with the manager, Butt and youth teams.
Then get Poch in, ie someone who coaches the players in a positive style amd works on shape and plays a high press.
The icing on the cake would be VDS as CEO and throw in some new owners but one can only dream.
Then get Poch in, ie someone who coaches the players in a positive style amd works on shape and plays a high press.
The icing on the cake would be VDS as CEO and throw in some new owners but one can only dream.
My feeling ,when Ole was appointment first team manager, was he'd tidy up the squad, put more emphasis on our offensive game and generally put a spark back into United.
Minor these early days into the current campaign, he did that but I've always maintained that he, and his coaching staff, wont take us up to the next step.
Now who will take us up another level is clearly the next major question.
I'm currently undecided on Poch.
Minor these early days into the current campaign, he did that but I've always maintained that he, and his coaching staff, wont take us up to the next step.
Now who will take us up another level is clearly the next major question.
I'm currently undecided on Poch.
These insults to a club legend are what I can't wrap my head around. We may say Ole's been struggling (I for one think there are mitigating circumstances that some folks willfully choose to ignore to shoot him down), but how do you justify comment's like this as a fan?
Particularly considering who have no clue what happens behind closed doors?
And not before time. Spunking £80m on Maguire and £50m on AWB is a sackable offence tbh.
Kenny Dalglish another good example.
Lampard and Arteta will be in the firing line soon enough.
he will. so will the next man
We only wanted Fernandes or Milinković-Savić, the two identified as replacement if we had managed to move Paul Pogba on last Summer, but there were no takers at the price we were asking so there was no reason to go for him then. We only went for him in January when Pogba was injured(or so the rumour goes) and i'd guess the club felt Pogba would move on this Summer anyway, and if it hadn't been for covid-19 he probably would have - now we're stuck with him, until January at least.
So you think AWB is a bad buy?
If one thinks the press and social media do not feed off of this negativity, they would be wrong. Yes, the transfer window was horrible and yes, the start to the season has been horrible but this incessant negativity devoid of any perspective and patience on the Cafe and social media only perpetuates the toxic cycle. No wonder it feels as if the manager's days are numbered. The negativity is relentless!
It's been 3 games into the new league season after a non-existent break and pre-season and people are calling for Ole's head already?! The absolute state of the fanbase! Three games! One of which we won even if it was undeserved. Yes, Brighton were unlucky not to score more but United didn't exactly lie down and roll over. Don't forget United went ahead after going a goal down, and who knows maybe United would have scored their third from open play if Maupay hadn't handled the ball and instead of this gloom-and-doom all around, the fans would have been a bit more positive.
Never mind the fact that United absolutely imploded against Spurs by getting a red card and giving away absolutely schoolboy-esque 4 goals all in a space of 30 mins (and 2 more similar goals in the second half). Never mind that the defending champions with 11 men under Klopp got trounced against Aston fecking Villa, who were playing under the same manager that Ole won against last season. Never mind that City under Pep are not that far off in terms of results and performances. But Ole is the PE teacher? David Moyes managed a club the size of Everton for 11 years and finished in top 7 for 8 of those years and promptly took United down to mid-table, whereas Ole left Cardiff in a bad table position but then got United to finish third in his first full season with a depleted squad that was also probably the youngest on average in the league. But Ole is the PE teacher? There is just no nuance and some people are so quick to paint with broad brushes.
I am not saying give Solskjaer an infinite number of chances but let the team get up and running this season FFS. We have seen how well the team can play, in terms of both results and performances, when all the players are fit and have had a regular schedule. Yes, one might say having a full, fit squad and easy schedules are luxuries a top club manager may not always get but these are extraordinary times. The upcoming run of games might make things even worse. It is rare to play 3 "Top 6" sides in a span of 4 games. Yes, this might sound like yet another excuse for the manager but it's not, it's merely an acknowledgement that things have been less than ideal. At least wait till it becomes apparent that United won't finish top 4, right now it's too early.
Someone who supports the manager is accused of sentimentality and putting the man before the club whereas someone who cannot take not winning trophies year after year and throws nasty insults towards the manager is a real fan, thinking only good of the club. Seriously? Sentiment is knowing that a football club is ultimately its peoples, past and present. Solskjaer is an indelible part of Manchester United. Yes, he is far from an elite manager but at the same time he is far from a disaster at this moment. I, for one, am excited to see an ex-player, who knows what the club is all about, who "gets it", managing the club. He has the players playing for him and for the shirt (maybe except Pogba). The team is generally playing far better football than LVG and Mourinho, elite "coaches" both. United have a decent crop of young players, some of them from the Academy who take to the field every game. This is what United is about.
One might point to Liverpool and say their delusion and sentimentality cost them 30 years of title-less seasons. I'd say that's a fair point, that is entirely possible at United. After all, winning trophies is also what United is about. But it is also possible that United come out of the mess quickly and find their footing AND stay true to traditions (and sentimentality). Choosing to believe in this possibility is worth it. After all, whenever a team plays its fans choose to invest in the upside: it's the possibility that the team wins. United IS different and the United fans ARE different. Stand by the manager and the players when the going gets tough because rest assured, the owners will sack Ole the moment he misses out on top 4.
The Glazers, Woodward, Matt Judge definitely shoulder a major part of the blame and the buck stops with them, everyone knows how much they have ruined the club. Even if Woodward himself shoved the aforementioned broad brush, bristles first, up the arseholes of some of the moaning folks, they'd still find a way to turn around and call Solskjaer every name under the sun.
It's been 3 games into the new league season after a non-existent break and pre-season and people are calling for Ole's head already?! The absolute state of the fanbase! Three games! One of which we won even if it was undeserved. Yes, Brighton were unlucky not to score more but United didn't exactly lie down and roll over. Don't forget United went ahead after going a goal down, and who knows maybe United would have scored their third from open play if Maupay hadn't handled the ball and instead of this gloom-and-doom all around, the fans would have been a bit more positive.
Never mind the fact that United absolutely imploded against Spurs by getting a red card and giving away absolutely schoolboy-esque 4 goals all in a space of 30 mins (and 2 more similar goals in the second half). Never mind that the defending champions with 11 men under Klopp got trounced against Aston fecking Villa, who were playing under the same manager that Ole won against last season. Never mind that City under Pep are not that far off in terms of results and performances. But Ole is the PE teacher? David Moyes managed a club the size of Everton for 11 years and finished in top 7 for 8 of those years and promptly took United down to mid-table, whereas Ole left Cardiff in a bad table position but then got United to finish third in his first full season with a depleted squad that was also probably the youngest on average in the league. But Ole is the PE teacher? There is just no nuance and some people are so quick to paint with broad brushes.
I am not saying give Solskjaer an infinite number of chances but let the team get up and running this season FFS. We have seen how well the team can play, in terms of both results and performances, when all the players are fit and have had a regular schedule. Yes, one might say having a full, fit squad and easy schedules are luxuries a top club manager may not always get but these are extraordinary times. The upcoming run of games might make things even worse. It is rare to play 3 "Top 6" sides in a span of 4 games. Yes, this might sound like yet another excuse for the manager but it's not, it's merely an acknowledgement that things have been less than ideal. At least wait till it becomes apparent that United won't finish top 4, right now it's too early.
Someone who supports the manager is accused of sentimentality and putting the man before the club whereas someone who cannot take not winning trophies year after year and throws nasty insults towards the manager is a real fan, thinking only good of the club. Seriously? Sentiment is knowing that a football club is ultimately its peoples, past and present. Solskjaer is an indelible part of Manchester United. Yes, he is far from an elite manager but at the same time he is far from a disaster at this moment. I, for one, am excited to see an ex-player, who knows what the club is all about, who "gets it", managing the club. He has the players playing for him and for the shirt (maybe except Pogba). The team is generally playing far better football than LVG and Mourinho, elite "coaches" both. United have a decent crop of young players, some of them from the Academy who take to the field every game. This is what United is about.
One might point to Liverpool and say their delusion and sentimentality cost them 30 years of title-less seasons. I'd say that's a fair point, that is entirely possible at United. After all, winning trophies is also what United is about. But it is also possible that United come out of the mess quickly and find their footing AND stay true to traditions (and sentimentality). Choosing to believe in this possibility is worth it. After all, whenever a team plays its fans choose to invest in the upside: it's the possibility that the team wins. United IS different and the United fans ARE different. Stand by the manager and the players when the going gets tough because rest assured, the owners will sack Ole the moment he misses out on top 4.
The Glazers, Woodward, Matt Judge definitely shoulder a major part of the blame and the buck stops with them, everyone knows how much they have ruined the club. Even if Woodward himself shoved the aforementioned broad brush, bristles first, up the arseholes of some of the moaning folks, they'd still find a way to turn around and call Solskjaer every name under the sun.
Same
Not this time. Not with the financial consequences of missing out on CL in the middle of a recession.
Surely he proved last season that he is good enough to manage the team? An unexpectedly high league finish and three semi-finals was presumably on par or slightly above your expectations at the close of last summer's transfer window?
He appears to have delivered what was expected of him, meanwhile those above him have utterly failed to deliver on their end of the bargain and we've seen the positive end to the season squandered by a transfer window when all of our major rivals have strengthened and we've stood still.
You simply cannot have Ole as DOF and Poch as the manager. It would not work because the theory and philosophy of Poch and Ole are not the same. The manager has to believe in what he is doing. The DOF cannot force it on the manager. It is not good to have ex players and especially ex coaches as DOF. Ole would be a terrible DOF for United because he has been the manager before. If they had got him before they appointed the manager it may have worked.
But VDS is the better choice because he has been to University and studied for it according to Scholes. Otherwise it is like having someone like Denis Wise as the DOF at Newcastle.
But VDS is the better choice because he has been to University and studied for it according to Scholes. Otherwise it is like having someone like Denis Wise as the DOF at Newcastle.
Sacking pre-season off when you’re marginal at best to achieve your minimum targets will do that to you.
Ole will go, same shit will repeat with the next manager. We will finish outside of top 4 this year, big spend next summer get into CL, Poch won't get backed and then sacked again when it goes pearshaped.
What's that word for doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome again?
What's that word for doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome again?
Knee jerk Café
The spell of good football after lockdown and the improved performances as soon as Bruno arrived were definitely welcome. As someone who describes themselves as a leader, I have never seen that in him. I also have not noticed that we have played like a big club, and his vision is lacking, other than buying players that are ready-made and very expensive. Those managers normally have records of winning tons of trophies.
At the end of last season I thought he deserved at least this season. But I can't shake the feeling that I just don't think he's got anything special to be a United manager. He looks defeated. He's contradictory in his statements. He is too comfortable a manager for a board with no ambition.
I have no belief in him.
That being said, I don't think he'll be sacked unless it's mathematically impossible for us to qualify for the CL again. And even then I'm not sure they'd do it. They've put a lot of stock in this so-called cultural reboot soundbite.
I don't think we'll be spending big anymore. I think the coffers have been emptied now because of Ole & Mourinho's spending and now the lack of income because of covid-19. This is about it now. If I was a shareholder in our public traded club, I wouldn't be happy at the club going out and spending more money just for the marginal benefit of being in the CL.
The club needs to now maximise the position they've established themselves in. Maybe a slightly higher level Everton - challenge for top 4 every once in a while but consistent europa league football. The fans will be happy - if we get an above average manager and make his minimum target just europa league qualification, he can stay in the job indefinitely. For the fans, that's the most important thing - just having a long term manager. The owners should give the fans what they want.