Fitness

[doriandun]

I sometimes think that Mourinho fecked up with this team, making them lose in every aspect of the game. This included. Should be different come next season, otherwise I'm wrong and that should mean these players dont have what it takes.

It's not Mourinho, it's the players professionalism, Mourinho had Eto operating as a wide forward, and he was putting in a shift, i can't remember not one player who has played under Mourinho, where this was ever the case.


As for the fitness, it's a poor excuse, because if you look at the running stats for Liverpool 2017/2018, compared to 2018/2019 you will see the run considerably less this season, primarily because they have focused more on defending as unit, with the purchase of VVD, just look at their stats for interceptions, which come from the players reading of the game and in game management.

 

[purgethefallen]

We have gone full circle now with these players. First they were not good enough. Then there were some bad attitudes in the squad. Now its that they are not fit enough. How about we just realize every scenario comes back to the players. Kick them all out and let's start again. Build a team from scratch and start again.

Personally, I'd say it's a mix of all three, not one thing in isolation.

 

[United_We_Stand]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sources told ESPN FC that Solskjaer and assistant Mike Phelan were struck by the unsatisfactory fitness of the majority of the players when they were given interim control of the team in December....
"The players weren't fit enough when Ole arrived," a source told ESPN FC. "They worked really hard to change that in December and January but they hit the wall in the end, and that was probably inevitable."

 

[Adisa]

Every new coach complains about fitness. It's like clockwork.

 

[Gandalf]

It might be like clockwork but in this case it was true. In every game that we started with a high tempo and a bit of a press you could see that by the middle of the first half there would be half a dozen players looking like they needed to be taken off. Jose was much more concerned with physical strength than with athleticism and sustained high tempo play and so I don't so much feel the players were lazy but were given the wrong kind of conditioning training. I know Ole says they have all been given individual plans to follow during the offseason so fingers crossed this excuse will be a thing of the past next season.

 

[ReddBalls]

I believe Ole started his fitness regime the day he was hired, and he kept pushing the players until the first international break. He stated that he wanted his team to be the fittest in the prem when he was hired, and he has also stated that "Uniteds preseason lasts until the first international break". That would explain both the downturn in performances and the amount of injuries in that period. It would also explain why United was able to beat Spurs and City in the space of three (3) days, while having a huge gap between the first eleven and the bench and still outrunning them.

The team has gone from being the most unfit team in the prem to arguably the fittest. That takes a lot of work.

 

[Judas]

How are we suddenly the fittest? Because we got two good results in one week for once? I'm glad this place is being a bit more positive, but the ridiculous swing the other way is so typical.

 

[VeevaVee]

It seems to have improved. Dunno about the fittest.

 

[roonster09]

It seems to have improved. Dunno about the fittest.

Yeah, for sure there is a huge improvement. We have outran Spurs, Liverpool, City, Chelsea this season, something I don't think we did under Jose.

 

[ReddBalls]

How are we suddenly the fittest? Because we got two good results in one week for once? I'm glad this place is being a bit more positive, but the ridiculous swing the other way is so typical.

Beating two top teams in three days with high intensity and one less day of restitution would certainly suggest an extreme upturn in fitness. I said arguably, but It's not like the team looked knackered after beating City.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We are definitely up there in terms of our fitness.

I think it's between us and Liverpool.

Leicester probably have a fair shout too. They've the lowest PPDA in the Premier League.

 

[andersj]

Would be interesting to see an update on this:

https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints

https://www.skysports.com/football/...r-league-distance-covered-rankings-for-201718

 

[Cutch]

Anyone got the running stats this season? I recall last season we were running less than everyone.

Think a few changes in the team have helped things too. Dan James and Wan Bissaka are superfit, and the emergence of McFred who are also. No Lukaku also helps though Martial could be fitter

 

[11101]

I don't know about the fittest but we are hugely improved. We just needed a pre-season to improve the base fitness level of the players.

 

[Irwin99]

I do wonder if the energy levels expended in the past few games are sustainable and if we can keep that up for most of the season but it's looking better.

I did hate that about Moyes and Jose's time here that the players never looked particularly energetic. Our pressing under LVG was pretty good (it's just a shame we never did anything with the ball once we actually won it back)

 

[jackal&hyde]

It will get even better. Players like Fred, Maguire didn't get much of a pre season with the new fitness focus. The rest will also improve and as they get used to it, injuries will happen less often.

 

[RedCurry]

If you play a bunch of young players, the fitness is bound to improve. That is until they injure themselves due to inexperience.

 

[ReddBalls]

If you play a bunch of young players, the fitness is bound to improve. That is until they injure themselves due to inexperience.

General fitness is gained in training.

 

[jackal&hyde]

If you play a bunch of young players, the fitness is bound to improve. That is until they injure themselves due to inexperience.

It's more complicated then that.

 

[RedCurry]

General fitness is gained in training.

Fitness is about training + nutrition + recovery. Those are pillars of fitness.

Within training itself there's conditioning, strength training, mobility, flexibility, stability, agility etc. It is certainly more complicated than just making players run more in training sessions.

But when you have younger players they might give you extra effort on the field and may require lesser recovery periods. They may also not realize when they have mobility issues and continue to train and play hard causing them to sustain serious injuries.

 

[Lj82]

I do wonder if the energy levels expended in the past few games are sustainable and if we can keep that up for most of the season but it's looking better.

I did hate that about Moyes and Jose's time here that the players never looked particularly energetic. Our pressing under LVG was pretty good (it's just a shame we never did anything with the ball once we actually won it back)

I have zero recollection of how fit or not the team looked Moyes, but wasn't his pre season quite focused on fitness? Or am I remembering it wrongly? Hmmm

 

[ReddBalls]

Fitness is about training + nutrition + recovery. Those are pillars of fitness.

Within training itself there's conditioning, strength training, mobility, flexibility, stability, agility etc. It is certainly more complicated than just making players run more in training sessions.

But when you have younger players they might give you extra effort on the field and may require lesser recovery periods. They may also not realize when they have mobility issues and continue to train and play hard causing them to sustain serious injuries.

OK, I obviously misread your post.

 

[Gasolin]

Beating two top teams in three days with high intensity and one less day of restitution would certainly suggest an extreme upturn in fitness. I said arguably, but It's not like the team looked knackered after beating City.

Yeah who remembers that last run of Rashford against Walker on the 95th mn? That was amazing... and it shows well physically. But I would think the strongest point would be the mental strength.

 

[Isotope]

Fred, McTom, James, and Rashford have been showing incredible fitness level, that I've never seen under Mou before.

 

[Irwin99]

I have zero recollection of how fit or not the team looked Moyes, but wasn't his pre season quite focused on fitness? Or am I remembering it wrongly? Hmmm

Yes it was and one of the supposed quotes flying around at the time was that he said he ‘couldn’t get any of energy out of the players’ ...but that is alleged. His fitness program didn’t work anyway as we looked very sluggish a lot of the time.

With Moyes it was often the case of a new week a new strategy, as Rio said the players were confused. There was the old ‘we got to the byline so many times and whipped crosses in’ -think back to the game against Fulham (shudder) and then there were also games where we passed it around with no purpose. I really got the impression that he didn’t know what to do. The accusation that we played hoof ball up to Fellaini was a false one though. I don’t think he dared to.

 

[Bilbo]

Running stats are not the best indicator for this - tactics can play a large part in that.

We will be able to judge how much we have improved in the latter part of the season - when squads start to fade from a heavy season certain team find themselves peaking. Ferguson of course was a master at this - hopefully Ole & Phelan are carrying some of those methods into this group.

 

[roonster09]

We have few injuries but when it comes to on the pitch, surely we are one of the fittest teams in the league now?

Vs Chelsea - 107.89 KMs - Outran them by 1km
Vs Liverpool - Don't know the total KMs but outran them by 2 kms,
Vs Spurs - 111.55 kms, outran them by 4 kms
Vs City - 111.49 kms, more than City
Vs City home - 113 KMs, 3 kms more than City.

We were 20th or bottom 3 in last 3 seasons, this season stats are not posted but don't think we will be in second half of the table.

 

[Rasendori]

We have few injuries but when it comes to on the pitch, surely we are one of the fittest teams in the league now?

Vs Chelsea - 107.89 KMs - Outran them by 1km
Vs Liverpool - Don't know the total KMs but outran them by 2 kms,
Vs Spurs - 111.55 kms, outran them by 4 kms
Vs City - 111.49 kms, more than City
Vs City home - 113 KMs, 3 kms more than City.

We were 20th or bottom 3 in last 3 seasons, this season stats are not posted but don't think we will be in second half of the table.

Would be interesting to see amongst other things:
- Distance covered in games which United saw the majority of possession.
- Starting Xl of the selective games you chose
- Martial's distance covered. He, along with Lukaku were amongst the lowest in the entire league last season

McTominay, Fred, James, Pereira, Maguire, Rashford, and now Bruno have contributed to this.

 

[jackal&hyde]

We have few injuries but when it comes to on the pitch, surely we are one of the fittest teams in the league now?

Vs Chelsea - 107.89 KMs - Outran them by 1km
Vs Liverpool - Don't know the total KMs but outran them by 2 kms,
Vs Spurs - 111.55 kms, outran them by 4 kms
Vs City - 111.49 kms, more than City
Vs City home - 113 KMs, 3 kms more than City.

We were 20th or bottom 3 in last 3 seasons, this season stats are not posted but don't think we will be in second half of the table.

Apart from the general bad atmosphere this was one of Mourinho's biggest destructive factors and what made the rebuild harder then it needed to be.

The fitness levels have increased and we've got rid of players and brought others in that fit the new requirements. A down side is that in the short term it comes with some injuries until the players adapt but that's normal, it happened to Liverpool too.

 

[roonster09]

Would be interesting to see amongst other things:
- Distance covered in games which United saw the majority of possession.
- Starting Xl of the selective games you chose
- Martial's distance covered. He, along with Lukaku were amongst the lowest in the entire league last season

McTominay, Fred, James, Pereira, Maguire, Rashford, and now Bruno have contributed to this.

We had 46% possession vs Spurs, so it's almost same and still covered most distance.
These are the games for which I could get stats, posted by ManUtd app.
Obviously 9s will cover less distance than CM,FB,Wingers with few exceptions like Firmino.

Usually few papers or sky post cumulative stats, they haven't done this season.

 

[roonster09]

Apart from the general bad atmosphere this was one of Mourinho's biggest destructive factors and what made the rebuild harder then it needed to be.

The fitness levels have increased and we've got rid of players and brought others in that fit the new requirements. A down side is that in the short term it comes with some injuries until the players adapt but that's normal, it happened to Liverpool too.

Yeah, injuries is normal when we change the playing style. Also under Van Gaal we were in top 5 when it comes to distance covered, only under Jose we were at the bottom of the table. Hopefully we will be at much higher position when cumulative stats are posted.

 

[cedara]

My concern is more about Medical team than our team. Look at Liv, sometime, I feel that they are pressing whole match but their player get few injuries compare to us, while we 're always proud that we have a best medical team as well as best facility in PL. So, how is that happens, I really dont know ?

 

[Rasendori]

We had 46% possession vs Spurs, so it's almost same and still covered most distance.
These are the games for which I could get stats, posted by ManUtd app.
Obviously 9s will cover less distance than CM,FB,Wingers with few exceptions like Firmino.

Usually few papers or sky post cumulative stats, they haven't done this season.

Against each of Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester, and City the majority of possession has been with the former. However, United were able to manage 51% possession in the 2-0 loss against Arsenal. I'd like to know the distance covered for that game, as well as a game in which United truly dominated possession i.e against Wolves in the 0-0 stalemate last month.

Rashford had 21 starts as a #9 in the EPL last season, compared to Martial's 7. Rashford (by April) covered 10.70km per game. In contrast, Martial distance covered per game (by April) was 9.48km which was amongst the very lowest of wide players/wingers in the EPL. Lukaku's 9.86km was amongst the lowest of other #9s. Both Martial and Lukaku covered less distance per game than Lindelof and Smalling. Hence the reason, I'd be interested in seeing the significant improvement in Martial's workrate this season.

 

[roonster09]

Against each of Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester, and City the majority of possession has been with the former. However, United were able to manage 51% possession in the 2-0 loss against Arsenal. I'd like to know the distance covered for that game, as well as a game in which United truly dominated possession i.e against Wolves in the 0-0 stalemate last month.

Rashford had 21 starts as a #9 in the EPL last season, compared to Martial's 7. Rashford (by April) covered 10.70km per game. In contrast, Martial distance covered per game (by April) was 9.48km which was amongst the very lowest of wide players/wingers in the EPL. Lukaku's 9.86km was amongst the lowest of other #9s. Both Martial and Lukaku covered less distance per game than Lindelof and Smalling. Hence the reason, I'd be interested in seeing the significant improvement in Martial's workrate this season.

You have to sign up for premium account in Opta site to get all the details for every game.

Not sure what your point is with Rashford, Martial. I know Martial's work rate was very poor last season, I said usually 9s distance covered will be lower than others, so even this season there won't be much improvement as he is playing as 9 in every game. For example, Kane and Vardy averaged 9.8 and 9.7 kms per 90 mins. Lukaku's was 9.3 kms per 90 mins. Martial's was probably the worst in the league last season.

I think PL site gives cumulative stats for each player but for this season they haven't updated yet. Maybe they won't at all this season. These sites should be updated, for FIFA world cup we got all the details just few hours after the game was over and it was such detailed stats. Like distance covered, average speed, top speed, zones of speed like how much player spent in 0-6 kmph, 6-9 kmph. It was very good breakdown.

 

[Rasendori]

I'm aware. When I stated I was interested in seeing the figures in games we dominated, I wasn't requesting them from you. Simply, that I'd be interested in seeing them.

Point concerning Martial is that I'd be interested in seeing the difference between his figures last season (lower than both other #9s and wide players) and this season. I don't think he'd be rock bottom again. By November 2019, Rashford was one of the five players that had covered the most distance for United. So, he gets respectable distance covered numbers under Ole, both in a position that one would expect, and one that might not neccesaraily be the case. Martial has different responsibilities, different physique, and a different skillset. Even so, I'd like to know his figures

 

[Buster15]

I don't know about the fittest but we are hugely improved. We just needed a pre-season to improve the base fitness level of the players.

A measure of cardiovascular fitness is not the level of work you can achieve, it is how quickly you can recover.

Our players now seem to be able to maintain a good level of effort for longer periods of time.

Some are sprinters like James and Rashford, while most are slower but can operate at that level for longer.

It is quite obvious really. The pitch is of a fixed area.
Both teams have 10 outfield players.
If one team can operate at 10% higher fitness level consistently, then they have in effect an extra player.

 

[Gator Nate]

If one team can operate at 10% higher fitness level consistently, then they have in effect an extra player.

Not if it's Lingard and Pereira chasing down the balls they just coughed up...

 

[Buster15]

Not if it's Lingard and Pereira chasing down the balls they just coughed up...

They will still have in effect an extra player.
You are talking about player quality which is quite right.

 

[Samid]

Hopefully a sign of things to come this season.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Hopefully a sign of things to come this season.

Surprising to see a Mbappe so low down