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I'll get behind him out of sympathy. I doubt we will win anything in the slightest under Ole but we chose him so we have to make do.
Well they might believe that, but only if they choose to ignore the wider context of how the club is being run, and assume that everyone running the club is acting in good faith towards the same goals that the top red has, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But the truth is that the Glazers are not acting in good faith and Ole is there as part of that plan, lovable little imp though he is.Absolute hogwash. Every single word of it.
You really believe that the only reason anyone wouldn't want our manager sacked is because they think it makes them a better fan? What about if they thought he was doing a good enough job to warrant more time? Is that really so hard to understand?
Delusional top red at it again. Grocery list of excuses to hide the fact that United have been awful this season. Optimistm is one thing, creating a thread to attack fans that don't agree is another. This makes RAWK look grounded in it's height of delusion. More whataboutery to hide the sad fact that Ole isn't going to take us back to the top.My word we don't half have a bunch on moany self entitled brats in our fanbase. 4 wins from 8 isn't amazing but neither is it disastrous. We're 5pts behind Chelsea having played a game less than them and also above City.
We've lost 3 games. Okay not great but look at the context of them. 2 of the 3 defeats we've had you can easily put down to fitness. Palace (loss), Brighton (win) n Spurs (loss) were all far sharper than we were and it was clearly evident. We were fortunate to beat Brighton too of course. The PL did us no favours with the start to the season. Same applies to City. Only half of our squad even played a bleeding friendly ffs. How is that fair? I think Palace played 2 friendlies, 1 league game and 1 Carabao cup game before we played them. How is that fair in any world? We were massively up against it as I said we were going to be when I made the article about resting players in the Europa League in July. We'd already secured CL football at Leicester. We should have sent Bruno and a few other key players on their holidays and forgot all about the EL. Would have been nice to win but it wasn't a priority. You win the EL to get back in the CL not to parade down the streets.
And putting the schedule aside for a second....we've also had our captain arrested, players testing positive for Covid, Mason losing a close friend to suicide among other issues. And not only all that....Ed Woodward has once again messed up another window at the club. Seriously that guy has more lives than a cat. How on earth he still has his job is beyond me. People talk about Ole being out of his depth....Jesus christ. What does that make Woodward then? He's a disaster.
Has it been a great start? Not at all. But all things considered it's been far from the disaster some fans are painting it to be. We're already among the chasing pack for top 4 and we've barely got going so far this season. The best is yet to come for us. Win the next 2 and we'll be right up there and that's a lot earlier than we were up there last season.
It's so easy to suddenly now mark Spurs as having a better squad. Amazing what proper coaching does, hey?First, our squad is not very talented, I'd say decent. Even Spurs have a better squad than ours.
Second, you really think he'd beat Liverpool or City to the title in a normal season after adding VDB, Telles and Cavani?
If I use myself as an example, I had no idea that United were successful. I was a kid(6 or 7 years old) and was mesmerized by Giggs and Cole. It's only years later that I realized that trophy/glory were significant but initially my interest was totally focused on the field and the aesthetic of certain players, I didn't care about the league table or the trophy cabinet.
Just to be clear, I wasn't having a pop at anyone who is not a local fan, I was just stating that for the majority of fans, success is the main draw for fans. It doesn't even matter if that is the reason someone starts to support a certain club anyway. Choose whichever club you want, there is no rule for how to choose a club to support.Dad or grandpa was local? Dad or mum or gran was a massive Scandy red who loved Jesper Olsson?
They are literally dozens and dozens of reasons and you have to be very close minded to not realise that.
You really think Cavani or Martial is better than Kane, Rashford is better than Son, Mata or James is better than Lamela, Moura, Berwjin? Coaching or not.It's so easy to suddenly now mark Spurs as having a better squad. Amazing what proper coaching does, hey?
Of course we have an extremely talented squad. VDB, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Martial are class players. Telles is a very good left back, I don't think there's much between him and Regulon (if I remember correctly some people in the caf even preferred him when we were linked with both). Wan Bissaka is actually a solid right back who was one of the best in the league for Palace, and our holding midfielders are very talented too. Fred is one of the best ball winners and then you have Pogba to use or not use, up to the coach on how best to make use of him.
That sort of quality should be capable of more consistent performances even in this topsy turvy season. We were actually pretty bad vs Brighton, slow vs Chelsea, bad vs Arsenal, slow vs Newcastle, bad vs West Bromwich. That's not normal and it's not just part of this season, it's actually a follow-on from a downturn in form last season where we struggled against Leicester, Southampton, got knocked out by Sevilla etc.
And just to be clear we aren't expecting a title win, but we are expecting to do a fair bit better than 61 points, and Ole has all the tools to achieve this. He has no excuse for not showing good progression on last season's tally.
Tbh it's not him.
It's a result of 7 years of repeated disappointment and people finally understand and accept the reality that we're no longer the pinnacle of English football. And we won't come back anytime soon. As long as Ed and the Glazers are here.
We have no proper RW for like 5,6 years. Tell me what club want to win big silverwares did the same. We're merely a club with no direction, no leadership and our biggest ambition is top 4 every year.
Going by your logic what you're saying is that only one, maybe two, of Ole's eight, expensive signings totalling €300m is better than their Spurs counterpart.You really think Cavani or Martial is better than Kane, Rashford is better than Son, Mata or James is better than Lamela, Moura, Berwjin? Coaching or not.
Was Reguilon our first choice LB in the summer?
And VDB? Based on what you think he's class? Because he's as good as Mata in sideway and back passing?
The only player in our squad who is clearly better than theirs is Bruno. And probably AWB.
Anyway, good thing at least you're not deluded enough to think Ole would challenge for the title with the current squad. Which in other words, our ambition is merely a top 4.
Read my post again and you'd see I didn't defend Ole on whether he's done enough or give him more time etc. I was talking about our current 'standards'.
Honestly, yes, I can’t understand anyone having watched the last 2 years and thinking he’s done enough to warrant more time.Absolute hogwash. Every single word of it.
You really believe that the only reason anyone wouldn't want our manager sacked is because they think it makes them a better fan? What about if they thought he was doing a good enough job to warrant more time? Is that really so hard to understand?
I can't agree that these players are getting better. Rashford and Martial could have been our modern version of Yorke and Cole. They aren't, however, because their football intelligence and skills level are at best static rather than improving year on year. They also don't give the impression that they are as motivated as they should be.No there's not.
Just because 8 league games into a new season, with 90 points still to play for, you feel like you've waited 'long enough' doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. It's exactly the same as saying for 'I want it now because I don't want to wait anymore'.
I think most of us are on the same page regarding Pogba. It's time he left for new pastures and we spent his money on a Grealish or Sancho, you won't find many arguing against that.
Greenwood needs time, he's just turned 19, youth are inconsistent and there is always a chance you can overplay them and cut short their careers. Also, he's had some personal issues with the suicide of his friend and the media going to town on him so it's a good idea to keep him out of the team for a while. Williams on the other hand looks like he may not have a United future, only time will tell.
You take Pogba and De Gea out of our team and our squad earns a competitive wage in comparison to those around us, and that does not account for the likes of Jones and Lingard who are on £100k and don't even play.
Patience is a virtue. We've improved year on year and the players you mentioned are all getting better but they are inconsistent. With consistency, we will be a much, much better team.
What logic? I only compare the players at the same position in the two squads. One by one.Going by your logic what you're saying is that only one, maybe two, of Ole's eight, expensive signings totalling €300m is better than their Spurs counterpart.
Yikes, that's not great, is it? Here was me being led to believe his signings have been brilliant and improved us immensely yet supposedly they haven't even made our squad as good as bleedin' Spurs!
I could get more behind him if he was willing to be flexible with the two holding mids in certain games and also acknowledged that he needs better than Carrick & McKenna on the sidelinesI'll get behind him out of sympathy. I doubt we will win anything in the slightest under Ole but we chose him so we have to make do.
But we finished higher than Spurs in the league in 2019.What logic? I only compare the players at the same position in the two squads. One by one.
And your logic is valid only if by the moment Ole came in Spurs had a squad with similar quality to ours. Do I need to tell you Spurs was a CL finalist in 2019? And we were a mess when Ole came in?
Do we really need to look into details of how was our squad and Spurs squad by Dec 2018? And ours and their position by then?But we finished higher than Spurs in the league in 2019.
I think it's pretty damning of the money spent by Ole if big money signings like VDB, Maguire, AWB aren't good enough to get into Spurs team, quite frankly.
Once the transfer window closes, alot of fans forget about the board.Anyone think the board hasn't hung him out to dry?
Don't think Ole is the right man but they've given him the tallest of mountains to climb. The reality is I don't think it matters who is the manager. We're bottlenecked by our owners, it could only be really overcome by the greatest of all time.
Just watch our three first games, and then you get why we had to mix it up. We will get there when are back in balance. The Ole out hysteria certainly didn’t watch Real, Barca, Bayern or City play this weekend. It all the same, and we are just getting started. We needed to find that balance. See where we go from thereI could get more behind him if he was willing to be flexible with the two holding mids in certain games and also acknowledged that he needs better than Carrick & McKenna on the sidelines
Ummm, yes? A manager's job isn't just to buy players and put them on the pitch. No manager on Earth gets all the players he wants. None. Klopp didn't, Guardiola didn't, Sir Alex didn't.Once the transfer window closes, alot of fans forget about the board.
It is obvious the board has left Ole out to dry, like they have with most managers after backing them in 1 window.
People say performances are Ole's fault, to some degree yes but when you dont give the manager the players he wants, is there a point of having him as manager?
Fantastic. It would be nice to be able to hold the opposite view without all of this deluded, blind faith, top red bollocks being thrown around though, wouldn't it?Honestly, yes, I can’t understand anyone having watched the last 2 years and thinking he’s done enough to warrant more time.
No manager gets the players they want yes but they do get the positions they need filled.Ummm, yes? A manager's job isn't just to buy players and put them on the pitch. No manager on Earth gets all the players he wants. None. Klopp didn't, Guardiola didn't, Sir Alex didn't.
Or “Waited long enough” being 2 years into his managerial career with us.“Waited long enough” being 8 games into the new season.
50 years from Sir Matt and SAF is not a blip.Apart from Sir Matt and SAF, Manchester United, for all their status, have historically been one of the most average teams in the top league(s).
All this crap about how we're Manchester United, the biggest team, etc., needs to stop. It's not true historically except for the two blips already mentioned.
With RW I think what happened was that Ole wanted Sancho and wanted us to keep trying for him. It's why we got all that Dembele loan disaster on the last days. For CB I'm fine we didn't get a CB. I don't know who we would have gotten that would have a major impact on our defender without spending a big amountNo manager gets the players they want yes but they do get the positions they need filled.
Klopp came in got backed and then said I need GK and DM - they got Fabinho and Alisson
Guardiola said I want a defenders - he got them
Ole wanted a CB and RW going into the summer, he got ST and CAM.
I didn't say he didnt get Sancho, well the club should have had alternatives in mind.
With CB, I understand why we didnt get one because of covid and no one available. But the RW is criminal.With RW I think what happened was that Ole wanted Sancho and wanted us to keep trying for him. It's why we got all that Dembele loan disaster on the last days. For CB I'm fine we didn't get a CB. I don't know who we would have gotten that would have a major impact on our defender without spending a big amount
The sloppiness in the transfer window was embarrassing and unforgivable. Sometimes we don't back the manager when needed and sometimes we give the managers too much freedom. Spending 80m on Maguire because Leceister didn't budge but he's the manager's number 1 target. And if Ole wanted us to keep trying for Sancho when it was obvious both clubs were not going to agree then you tell the manager to move on to other targets. This club is badly in need of a good DoFWith CB, I understand why we didnt get one because of covid and no one available. But the RW is criminal.
I understand Ole might have said keep trying but surely as a CEO you would say... no chance, we have tried everything, 2 weeks to go, we could get X Y Z on loan.
Why wait till the last day? Its all a mess really it is clearly obvious we majorly lack a RW
Swings and roundabouts.Fantastic. It would be nice to be able to hold the opposite view without all of this deluded, blind faith, top red bollocks being thrown around though, wouldn't it?
They don't want progress. They want unrealistic instant success. Glory hunters who wouldn't even be United fans if they were born 25 years later most of them.
Not entirely true, is it? Up to the Burnley game last year, through a shit period and injuries, people was pretty vocal on wanting him out.Or “Waited long enough” being 2 years into his managerial career with us.
This place is a cesspool for reasoned debate.
I am yet to see any forum member say OgS should be sacked for these 8 games alone. In fact it only being 8 games into this season is utilised as a defence more often.
There isn't a lot between these players (bar Kane who is phenominal). Son is red hot form but last season Rashford showed how good he can be when cutting in from the left too. Rashford and Martial both accumulated 20 odd goals between them and Greenwood had what, 14 in the league or something like that? One of the good points about Ole is that he actually raised Martial and Rashford's level last season but is failing in other departments.You really think Cavani or Martial is better than Kane, Rashford is better than Son, Mata or James is better than Lamela, Moura, Berwjin? Coaching or not.
Revisit the transfer news thread, we had both on the shortlist and Regulon was 1st, that doesn't mean that he was materially better as an option than Telles. If we thought he was, we'd have swallowed the buyback option and just brought him to OT. What sort of an odd reason is this to try and water down Telles as a transfer?Was Reguilon our first choice LB in the summer?
VDB is a very good player. If you think that's all he does then you probably need to watch him more. There's a reason Real wanted him, and that the mighty Spurs went in for him too. If he was so average I'd wonder why Spurs with all the might in their squad (supposedly according to you) would actually go and move for him.And VDB? Based on what you think he's class? Because he's as good as Mata in sideway and back passing?
this isn't even worth a rebuttle. It's just daft on many levels.The only player in our squad who is clearly better than theirs is Bruno. And probably AWB.
You literally said "TBH it's not on him" which reads like you're absolving him of blame. Anyway, our "current standards" is capable of performing materially better in points compared to last season. He has little excuses to that end.Anyway, good thing at least you're not deluded enough to think Ole would challenge for the title with the current squad. Which in other words, our ambition is merely a top 4.
Read my post again and you'd see I didn't defend Ole on whether he's done enough or give him more time etc. I was talking about our current 'standards'.
Imo this started to get pointless and off topic af. How about go to the football forum and create a new thread there to discuss whether we have a better squad than Spurs? That way we'd have some neutral opinions from other teams' fans on this as well.There isn't a lot between these players (bar Kane who is phenominal). Son is red hot form but last season Rashford showed how good he can be when cutting in from the left too. Rashford and Martial both accumulated 20 odd goals between them and Greenwood had what, 14 in the league or something like that? One of the good points about Ole is that he actually raised Martial and Rashford's level last season but is failing in other departments.
Evidently, you suffer from recency bias this season. If you go back further and compare say Rashford and Son over the past 18 months to 2 years, you'll find there isn't much between them at all.
You've also ignored Bruno (in this segment of the post at least), who is one of the most productive players in the league let alone relative to a Sprus player.
Revisit the transfer news thread, we had both on the shortlist and Regulon was 1st, that doesn't mean that he was materially better as an option than Telles. If we thought he was, we'd have swallowed the buyback option and just brought him to OT. What sort of an odd reason is this to try and water down Telles as a transfer?
VDB is a very good player. If you think that's all he does then you probably need to watch him more. There's a reason Real wanted him, and that the mighty Spurs went in for him too. If he was so average I'd wonder why Spurs with all the might in their squad (supposedly according to you) would actually go and move for him.
this isn't even worth a rebuttle. It's just daft on many levels.
You literally said "TBH it's not on him" which reads like you're absolving him of blame. Anyway, our "current standards" is capable of performing materially better in points compared to last season. He has little excuses to that end.
Don’t be silly. They both have invested and are more balanced on paper. We really have not signed a single first team player. But we are pretty on par all teams. Jumping to conclusions at this stage either way is pointless.Just few months ago people were saying we have comfortably the 3rd best team in the league, now people are saying even Spurs have better squad than us ?
So are we setting the tone now that when we inevitably finish top 4 ahead of Spurs and Chelsea it'll be an achievement because apparently our squad isn't as good as them.
Spurs have better attack than us but we definitely have better midfield and defense overall. They have Winks and Sissoko playing many games ffs.Don’t be silly. They both have invested and are more balanced on paper. We really have not signed a single first team player. But we are pretty on par all teams. Jumping to conclusions at this stage either way is pointless.
Well here is what you said:Imo this started to get pointless and off topic af. How about go to the football forum and create a new thread there to discuss whether we have a better squad than Spurs? That way we'd have some neutral opinions from other teams' fans on this as well.
And again, I defended Ole on whether it's him who make us fans accept that we could no longer compete for top silverwares. I didn't say anything about points, or compared to last season. You seem to have a serious issue reading my post I think.
And if you actually took a moment to take your own advice on reading, you can feast your eyes on the opening part of the sentence in boldTbh it's not him.
It's a result of 7 years of repeated disappointment and people finally understand and accept the reality that we're no longer the pinnacle of English football. And we won't come back anytime soon. As long as Ed and the Glazers are here.
We have no proper RW for like 5,6 years. Tell me what club want to win big silverwares did the same. We're merely a club with no direction, no leadership and our biggest ambition is top 4 every year.
Everything posted thereafter was you having an issue with me claiming the manager has a talented squad to work with, capable to build on materially better points than last season.Whilst all this is true, the fact remains that our manager has a very talented squad to work with. There is little excuse to not build on last season after he was provided with a quality LB, striker and midfielder.
Not in my view. This is all getting a bit ridiculous now, and ultimately it doesn't really matter.Just few months ago people were saying we have comfortably the 3rd best team in the league, now people are saying even Spurs have better squad than us ?
So are we setting the tone now that when we inevitably finish top 4 ahead of Spurs and Chelsea it'll be an achievement because apparently our squad isn't as good as them.
But that’s what it boils down to doesn’t it? A mixture of knee jerk, Poch infatuation, and vague comments around patterns of play. We finished 3rd last season, 3rd.Or “Waited long enough” being 2 years into his managerial career with us.
This place is a cesspool for reasoned debate.
I am yet to see any forum member say OgS should be sacked for these 8 games alone. In fact it only being 8 games into this season is utilised as a defence more often.
You simply conveniently forgot the post below.Well here is what you said:
And if you actually took a moment to take your own advice on reading, you can feast your eyes on the opening part of the sentence in bold
Everything posted thereafter was you having an issue with me claiming the manager has a talented squad to work with, capable to build on materially better points than last season.
Where I asked you if you think Ole can challenge Liverpool or City with the current squad. Because we're discussing about the club's ambition. Top 4 or titles.First, our squad is not very talented, I'd say decent. Even Spurs have a better squad than ours.
Second, you really think he'd beat Liverpool or City to the title in a normal season after adding VDB, Telles and Cavani?
You really think Cavani or Martial is better than Kane, Rashford is better than Son, Mata or James is better than Lamela, Moura, Berwjin? Coaching or not.
Was Reguilon our first choice LB in the summer?
And VDB? Based on what you think he's class? Because he's as good as Mata in sideway and back passing?
The only player in our squad who is clearly better than theirs is Bruno. And probably AWB.
Anyway, good thing at least you're not deluded enough to think Ole would challenge for the title with the current squad. Which in other words, our ambition is merely a top 4.
Read my post again and you'd see I didn't defend Ole on whether he's done enough or give him more time etc. I was talking about our current 'standards'.