Raul Jimenez suffers fractured skull

The way I see it, it's no different to a late slide tackle. It was incredibly reckless from Luiz and, like you said, he's likely ended another player's career because of it.
If you were asked to think of a player that could do such a thing (not maliciously), the first two players that spring to mind are Luiz and Jones, maybe even Bailly. It's reckless and dangerous play.
 
You can reduce the danger without changing the game dramatically. For me that’s a red card all day for Luiz yesterday, players see that and they hesitate to blindly attack balls from set pieces. I’m not saying any head collision is a sending off, but when there’s clearly an aggressor it should be acted upon.

Charge at a player, smash into him and break his leg: red card.

Charge at a player, smash into him and fracture his skull: clash of heads.

It’s bonkers.
I do agree that players need to be made responsible, but it's incredibly hard when football is a sport with proper physical contact.
 
Players welfare in general isn't taken care of in the PL. It's why the likes of Chris Wilder can hold the PL hostage over 5 subs and on top the likes of BT and Sky dictate when clubs play their fixtures.

What does this got to do with 5 subs? It wasn’t a muscle injury.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.

I actually agree with you.

I particularly remember that Brandon one.

Defenders both mistime these "challenges" and use them to put a player off challenging again. If those tactics/intentions were used for any other challenge they would be considered dangerous play.
 
I thought as much when it happened, real pity because Jimenez is a really good player I hope he can come back but not sure it’s possible with the amount of heading he’d be expecting to do. Damn shame..
 
I do agree that players need to be made responsible, but it's incredibly hard when football is a sport with proper physical contact.
It is difficult, but people said similar when ‘follow through’ tackles were clamped down on, now it’s the norm and players aren’t as reckless.
 
Agreed. It's extremely reckless. Every player has a duty of care and to be responsible for not diving into unwinnable challenges. In the past it has always been difficult to police and convention has dictated that any clash of heads is just one of those things. But with the ability of VAR to unpick what happened it should be easier to split out the reckless challenges from the unlucky ones. In turn, dishing out a few red cards should start to change behaviours.

If things are being reviewed retroactively in this sense, red cards should be the least of their worries and court cases and damages the main focus. Mind, I did not watch the clash of heads as I can't bring myself to do so.
 
It is difficult, but people said similar when ‘follow through’ tackles were clamped down on, now it’s the norm and players aren’t as reckless.
Yes, but duels on the ground don't have to always be about strong physical contact. You can't try and minimise the dangers of aerial duels without changing the whole game. At least I can't see a realistic way of doing that.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.

I fully agree with you.
Couldn't believe what i just saw after i've seen the replay.
This was one of the most reckless challenges i have ever seen in any sport.
 
Such a shame. A skull was the least I expected, seeing the clash. I hope he makes a good recovery. I agree it should be as much a red card offence as kicking someone recklessly. Can't think of a better definition of dangerous play.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.

Ive thought about that this weekend too. You’re slightly late with your foot and slightly high on the ankle (which is protected by pads) and people are foaming at the mouth for it to be a red.

recklessly throw your head into a situation, or a keeper coming to punch someone’s head and it’s “there to be won”.

Makes no sense what so ever
 
Players have come back from fractured skulls. From memory, I think Corey Evans had a bad one last year and I think he’s either back or due back. Michael Keane had a hairline fracture and was back in a month. It’ll depend on the location and obviously, severity.
 
I knew something bad had happened after hearing the sound and seeing the players reaction. Shite. Speedy recovery Raul :(
 
Terrible injury. Hope he gets better soon.
 
Yes, but duels on the ground don't have to always be about strong physical contact. You can't try and minimise the dangers of aerial duels without changing the whole game. At least I can't see a realistic way of doing that.
You punish the out of control ones. That hopefully reduces instances like this.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.
Comments made by Troy Deeney on Talksport this morning (tweet now deleted) do not help. Essentially, it was a minute long clip of him saying that players should have the freedom to decide, and that people from the outside looking in shouldn’t get in-between the relationship between the player and the medical staff. He started the clip by saying something like “how many things have footballers already had taken from them?” Absolutely barmy stuff.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.

Guess when a player suffers himself from the action he just made, people are hesitant to punish him. However, I also think this should be the case. You need to protect the head from injuries through the rules. It's actually quite simple: If you punish players for such duels, they will happen less frequently. Generally, I think the current rule set is too focused on "ill intent". Sure, David Luiz suffered himself from that situation so one can assume he didn't intend to do so but he really shouldn't have put Jimenez at risk. If I underestimate a ball and hit the knee of the opponent, injuring myself simultaneousy, this is also a red card.
 
This may come across as a crazy notion as I’ve not really seen it discussed anywhere else, but it’s been something I’ve thought about since the Ryan Mason injury. How is something like this in the modern game just seen as a ‘clash of heads’? You’ve got David Luiz (or Gary Cahill which was a better example) absolutely flying head first for a ball he’s never going to get to and ending his opponents career in the process. Yes it’s unfortunate and unintentional, but so are most leg breaks. They don’t even give yellow cards.

I remember when we played Southampton last season, Walker Peters did similar to Brandon Williams, got nowhere near the ball, whilst on a yellow card, and it was never even suggested that he should’ve received a second. Meanwhile Williams has to go off and we concede playing the rest of the game with 10 men. It just seems like a blind spot at the moment that needs to be addressed. If you go with that force for a ball you aren’t going to win and hurt an opponent in the process, then it’s a red card.

I would lay the blame for this squarely with Luiz, utter moron of a footballer and an absaloute danger to other players as proved yesterday. Not saying he meant it but it was complete and utter stupidity.

He reminds me of the guy you would play against on a 5 a side team, no clue how to play football and as a result is a danger to other players.
 
Also is it time that the use of those 'helmets' that Rooney wore for a while were encouraged if not made mandatory? Would also help with the longer term effects such as older footballers with dementia.
 
Also is it time that the use of those 'helmets' that Rooney wore for a while were encouraged if not made mandatory? Would also help with the longer term effects such as older footballers with dementia.
I imagine the flamboyant players would be heavily against that. Can't imagine those that rely on their appearance to boost their monetary gains will be happy to wear headgear.
 
Ive thought about that this weekend too. You’re slightly late with your foot and slightly high on the ankle (which is protected by pads) and people are foaming at the mouth for it to be a red.

recklessly throw your head into a situation, or a keeper coming to punch someone’s head and it’s “there to be won”.

Makes no sense what so ever

Well the difference is in the latter case no-one actually has control of the ball so it is a 50 50 in a sense whereas in the former case one player has definite control. That said I do hate fans baying for reds with tackles that are just a bit late and high. Soon the game will be entirely non contact.

As for people thinking I want the dark ages back. I think the laws around tackling in the mid 90s were about right.
 
I imagine the flamboyant players would be heavily against that. Can't imagine those that rely on their appearance to boost their monetary gains will be happy to wear headgear.

Also, headgear would encourage even more reckless head behaviour because there is less risk of injury. The easiest way to reduce head injuries in the NFL would be to remove helmets altogether
 
Hope he plays on but that's a horrible injury.

I can see football moving towards padded headbands in the same way they have shinpads.
Won’t help when you get smacked in the face. Boxers wear gloves and head protection but still sustain life changing injuries
 
nasty way for your career to end if it is, he's a quality player too, has really made a name for himself in the Premier League.
 
Comments made by Troy Deeney on Talksport this morning (tweet now deleted) do not help. Essentially, it was a minute long clip of him saying that players should have the freedom to decide, and that people from the outside looking in shouldn’t get in-between the relationship between the player and the medical staff. He started the clip by saying something like “how many things have footballers already had taken from them?” Absolutely barmy stuff.
He also said something about if a player goes off in different games for concussion that his teammates would start to think they were soft, that they would be saying, 'Where were you when we needed you'. Should pass that on to George North the rugby player and see if he agrees with him.
 
Also, headgear would encourage even more reckless head behaviour because there is less risk of injury. The easiest way to reduce head injuries in the NFL would be to remove helmets altogether
That’s inaccurate. NFL would need a complete change in rules. The tackling etc in American Football is way different to rugby for example. Rugby changed its rules to a penalise dangerous challenges. AF has players flying in from everywhere
 
That’s inaccurate. NFL would need a complete change in rules. The tackling etc in American Football is way different to rugby for example. Rugby changed its rules to a penalise dangerous challenges. AF has players flying in from everywhere

What's allowed in the NFL tackling that isn't allowed in rugby?

Edit - the point about more recklessness in football with headgear still stands though
 
He also said something about if a player goes off in different games for concussion that his teammates would start to think they were soft, that they would be saying, 'Where were you when we needed you'. Should pass that on to George North the rugby player and see if he agrees with him.

Yeah i found those comments very strange. Shows what it would be like to play under him if he was your captain.
 
Also, headgear would encourage even more reckless head behaviour because there is less risk of injury. The easiest way to reduce head injuries in the NFL would be to remove helmets altogether

That's a bonkers argument. Should motor cyclists also not wear helmets so they will drive slower and pose less of a danger to themselves? I dont think players are going to start kicking each other on the head to test out how sturdy the helmet is.
 
He also said something about if a player goes off in different games for concussion that his teammates would start to think they were soft, that they would be saying, 'Where were you when we needed you'. Should pass that on to George North the rugby player and see if he agrees with him.
It’s one thing that he’s a current footballer constantly talking about other fellow professionals, but his comments like this are so damaging. Really backward mentality that needs to be eradicated from the game.
 
He also said something about if a player goes off in different games for concussion that his teammates would start to think they were soft, that they would be saying, 'Where were you when we needed you'. Should pass that on to George North the rugby player and see if he agrees with him.
That’s really sad and unfortunately a cultural thing which can’t be simply changed overnight.
 
I imagine the flamboyant players would be heavily against that. Can't imagine those that rely on their appearance to boost their monetary gains will be happy to wear headgear.

Interesting point, however if it were me, I would be ok with earning 250k now and not have dementia later in life rather than earn in excess of 250k now and have or risk having have dementia later.

Also wearing a helmet dodsnt hurt Lewis Hamiltons or Tom Bradys images/monetary gains.