Without Bruno you guys would be in relegation battle mate.
Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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The only thing I like about Mourinho is that he pisses off the scousers and scouse-led media. And if he prevents Liverpool from winning the league then I'll appreciate that too.
Sometimes it just baffles you just how they can just make stuff up to fit their agenda and able to claim it so very factually
In Son and Kane he has not 1 but 2 players that would walk into most teams in Europe. Having 2 players of that calibre up front is perfect for him really, because it means he can set the rest of the team up in the way we know is so successful for him and he can rely on those 2 to take their chances when they come. Absolute contrast to what he was working with upfront at United, with forwards that generally need a few chances to score.
I dont hold anything personal against Jose. Would much rather he won the league with Spurs than City or Liverpool winning it.
I dont hold anything personal against Jose. Would much rather he won the league with Spurs than City or Liverpool winning it.
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He had Ibrahimović for his first season and Lukaku (off a 25 league goals season at Everton) as his strikers during his 2nd season.
Both put up pretty healthy overall tallies; 28 goals & 27 goals.
There was more to it than our strikers.
I don't think he understood the culture of his players. A lot of young players who weren't the serious, mature men he was used to working with at Chelsea and Inter. Players from a different generation. A different upbringing. A different football education.
Mourinho did some good things, but was terrible for Mata, Martial and Rashford.
And he couldn't get enough change out of Mkhitaryan who was an experienced 26 year old when he signed. He treated him very badly, despite him being key player during our League Cup and Europa League winning runs.
Having said all of that, he is still a better manager than Ole. We downgraded. Although we had to cut ties, it was past repair.
Don't think there's a more polarizing manager in the last couple decades. And the haters generally exhibit an unhealthy amount of bitterness for a man that, ultimately, is good in what he does.
Soeness said it's hard to watch Spurs but Leicester recently won the title playing even more defensive and without the finesse of Son and Kane upfront... Let's not forger bitter and dumb opinions like that have a reason to be: Souness made the extraordinary feat of finishing 5th with Benfica in the league. Very hard to find worse in the anals of history. Now it's easier to understand where the bitterness comes from. Of course silly opinions get into general opinion and that's what happened when Jose managed United.
Soeness said it's hard to watch Spurs but Leicester recently won the title playing even more defensive and without the finesse of Son and Kane upfront... Let's not forger bitter and dumb opinions like that have a reason to be: Souness made the extraordinary feat of finishing 5th with Benfica in the league. Very hard to find worse in the anals of history. Now it's easier to understand where the bitterness comes from. Of course silly opinions get into general opinion and that's what happened when Jose managed United.
It is hard to watch Spurs play and no one ever said Leicester were a good watch when they won the league.
Mourinho makes it all about him when his team wins and throws his players under the bus when the team loses.
He's achieved great things as a manager obviously but I'm delighted he's no longer at United. I find some of the nonsense and digs at other managers he comes out with quite funny but he's not very likeable and has such a massive ego that it's also hilarious when it all comes crashing down in the inevitable third season dumpster fire.
This isn't my point and I don't know why you're so salty mate.
Every team will face some rough moments. But Jose takes the biscuit when it comes to blaming everyone else when that time comes. I don't know when or if this is gonna happened, but when he was here, that's exactly what he did
Newbie.
Did anyone see much of Inter under Jose? Was he this defensive with them? I'm wondering if the Utd failure has taken him right back to his basic defensive roots to be successful.
He knows he can apply such principles at second and third tier clubs without fear of fan backlash.
Ouch.
He never was going to win at United. The pundits and lots of fans were after him. He doesn't play the expansive football. It's all about winning a football match.
I don't know what went wrong in the background. He won us the League Cup and the EL and was 2nd in the PL. He wanted Pogba gone and Maguire bought.
In hindsight it may have not made any difference if this happened. He got Hojbjerg for 15 million.
Bruno in and this team may have won something. It would be boring as heck though. But we have played the same boring matches under SAF, LVG, Moyes and Ole too.
I don't know what went wrong in the background. He won us the League Cup and the EL and was 2nd in the PL. He wanted Pogba gone and Maguire bought.
In hindsight it may have not made any difference if this happened. He got Hojbjerg for 15 million.
Bruno in and this team may have won something. It would be boring as heck though. But we have played the same boring matches under SAF, LVG, Moyes and Ole too.
You got it all wrong. He's not the one with a massive ego, on the contrary. He doesn't care one bit what people think of his style. Contrary to those who are self entitled and that their club is too good to play other than possession football. Now that's a definition of a big ego. The problem is that most fans and these pundits aren't educated enough to appreciate it as football at the highest level can be like a game of chess and Mourinho plays it like that. Ultimately he is paid to win matches and he does his best, as a professional, to do what he was asked to. Trying to please some old fashioned fools by playing 200 crosses and keeping his defensive line high is probably not in his contract.
Regarding Leicester i don't remember this level of hate for their play style. I enjoyed greatly their campaign but their success had a huge dose of heart as their defending was often done on the limit. Tottenham might lack the guts Leicester had but looks more solid as a whole.
In the first handful of games Spurs was playing the best attacking football in the league but they weren't top of the table due to complacency in the last minutes against Newcastle, Sheffield.. Now this difficult run obviously demanded an intelligent management of player fitness so you can't expect a side like Spurs to play on the front foot 90mins against Arsenal, City, Chelsea, and so on. However you lot are quick to generalise and conveniently miss the whole picture!
I am being intentionally incendiary but think there is some truth to it. Mourinho is always in his element at certain clubs, and think he has found a perfect environment at Tottenham.
You guys are looking good at the moment, I’m not disputing that.
No man I like you after our initial spat so no hard feelings. I think its a combination of things at Tottenham,
1. Hard working players buying into his plan
2. A board who haven't promised him the world and a plan he signed up to
3. A fan base hungry to win and compete
4. Jose himself has a point to prove I feel and he seems happy (for now).
One thing I don't accept is we are terrible to watch, I have enjoyed the football on show.
Same here, buddy.
I don’t think you are terrible to watch – any team putting those thrusting counter attacks into action is going to be exciting in moments, but I kind of watch Spurs yearning for more. The art of counter attacking is not boring or defensive, but it’s the frequency for me, and I think you could do it more. I do accept that I only watch Spurs in big games, so maybe my perceptions of how you play in general are impacted by that.
I agree with all the points you have made, and think it plays into my point that he’s found a perfect environment at Tottenham. There’s no in fighting, and everyone pulling in the same direction. After Jose’s recent spells at Madrid, Chelsea at United, I thought he had lost his touch when it came to generating a siege mentality and ‘one club’ culture. I guess the acid test will be if you go through a bad spell.
I said it on here yesterday, but do think him being in London makes a massive difference. I don’t care how plush the suite is, being holed up in a hotel for three years in Manchester will have negatively impacted his mood and enjoyment of the job with us. I can rarely remember a time when he didn’t come across as miserable.
Based on his current demeanour and Tottenham’s set up, I think you can challenge this season for the league, especially since it’s so open.
I agree I don't want us countering against teams we should be taking the game too, Palace next and another derby game so we will see how he sets up.
Burn.... Personally I find his style, when it works, fascinating. There's an art form in defending to control the game. He had Arsenal exactly where he wanted them. There was something beautiful about it.
Is he really playing that defensive? They’ve got a joint top GD of 14, they thrashed us 6-1 and he’s just come off a 3 game stretch against top teams, in which most managers including Ole tend to play counterattacking/defensive football.
Reading comments on here and looking at how the media comment it makes it seem like that Spurs are playing atrocious football and it’s like nobody else does it!
I don’t personally enjoy the style Mourinho adopts, but he definitely gets treated unfairly. If Arteta or Ole had done what Mourinho is doing currently I honestly don’t think you’d see the same comments.
Can you imagine how annoying it would be to be performing the way he currently is with a Spurs side that at the start of the season nobody would’ve thought would be in this position. Yet continue to have to hear how your football is boring.
I reckon if you offered most United fans this exact scenario we would take it- I mean we did but it didn’t work out like we wanted. Spurs should rightly be very happy, especially since they’ve not won a major trophy for so long and have already experienced decent football with previous managers and nothing to show for it at the end of the season.
There has been too many times in recent years when parking the bus has still resulted in the concession of a shed load of chances, which is not at all clever. Of late, it has been better from Spurs as they have barely been giving up chances.
Yesterday, though, I would question whether such an approach was needed. Arsenal do not represent an attacking threat, so I think they should have treated it like what it was – a home game against a bottom half team Spurs are comfortably better than.
Pretty much, Id say at least 75% of the people saying were boring haven't watched the game and are simply jumping on the band wagon.
This has been the thoughts on Spurs since the start of the season.
We wont get top four........ to........ we havent played the tough teams........ to ........just wait till the end of the tough run of fixtures........ to ......... we are boring.
Why do people keep referring to Kane & Son as World Class and the only reason Spurs are doing OK?
From what i have seen, Kane & Son have been part of the Spurs squad for quite a number of years under Poch before JM came in. Neither played even remotely like they are playing now. In fact i would go as far as to say JM has transformed them.
Kane was an absolute busted flush last season (despite scoring his bagfull). He had lost a yard or so of pace and was injured and tired. He was never a fox in the box but he wasnt even bothering to make the effort and he was struggling with his ability to make and score goals. He also looked weaker than he had in previous seasons. We had the modern version of Alan Shearer where the team played to his strengths to get him goals but we never would amount to anything because we were too predictable. JM and Kane sat down and reworked his game. Surely there has to be credit for that for both of them. Its not revolutionary or anything like that but it took a very strong man to tell someone with Kanes record to remodel such a successful playing style.
Son was even worse. He would run and work but would not take any responsibility. Just putting in a bit of running is not enough. JM has obviously worked with him to develop his team ethic. He now does his attacking stuff which can be world class but he also cares about the TEAM. He no longer passes it without caring about the quality of the pass. He now tracks his man etc etc. He is now capable of producing even when he isnt producing a world class goal. I personally think this is why JM and Pogba blew up so much. JM probably saw the fact Pogba was capable of doing this and being immense for MU and he got frustrated when Pogba didnt see it. In the same way i think he is now at the end with Dele. Its up to the player to invest. Once JM has shown them the way he can only then wait for the player to decide if he wants in or out.
If we need to discuss changes to the team we can discuss Loris who now doesnt make any effort to play out from the back so is much more relaxed. Dier who JM agreed to put in CB and trust him is now shaping into a very good defender (I wouldnt swap him for Maguire). Consider that a lot of spurs fans didnt rate him there and he and JM have proven them wrong. Alderweireld who is settled and putting in displays similar to 2 years. Then there is Hojbjerg who cost us £15m and is our stand out player this season tbh. Ndombele who hasnt even shown a fraction of what he can do yet. Regulion, Aurier etc. The improvements he has brought to existing players and new players to the squad is remarkable. I really dont know how much more we can expect at Spurs from a manager.
No one is really claiming that Spurs are title challengers until we are in the run in with no mathematical chance of being caught. Even then SPurs would find some way to come 3rd. We accept that. However to blindly refuse to give JM credit shows MU fans in a bad light. He has done a good job so far and is building the team into something that he feels might challenge. We spurs fans will join the fun and see where it goes. As i started the post, to say its down to Son & Kane is absolute folly.
From what i have seen, Kane & Son have been part of the Spurs squad for quite a number of years under Poch before JM came in. Neither played even remotely like they are playing now. In fact i would go as far as to say JM has transformed them.
Kane was an absolute busted flush last season (despite scoring his bagfull). He had lost a yard or so of pace and was injured and tired. He was never a fox in the box but he wasnt even bothering to make the effort and he was struggling with his ability to make and score goals. He also looked weaker than he had in previous seasons. We had the modern version of Alan Shearer where the team played to his strengths to get him goals but we never would amount to anything because we were too predictable. JM and Kane sat down and reworked his game. Surely there has to be credit for that for both of them. Its not revolutionary or anything like that but it took a very strong man to tell someone with Kanes record to remodel such a successful playing style.
Son was even worse. He would run and work but would not take any responsibility. Just putting in a bit of running is not enough. JM has obviously worked with him to develop his team ethic. He now does his attacking stuff which can be world class but he also cares about the TEAM. He no longer passes it without caring about the quality of the pass. He now tracks his man etc etc. He is now capable of producing even when he isnt producing a world class goal. I personally think this is why JM and Pogba blew up so much. JM probably saw the fact Pogba was capable of doing this and being immense for MU and he got frustrated when Pogba didnt see it. In the same way i think he is now at the end with Dele. Its up to the player to invest. Once JM has shown them the way he can only then wait for the player to decide if he wants in or out.
If we need to discuss changes to the team we can discuss Loris who now doesnt make any effort to play out from the back so is much more relaxed. Dier who JM agreed to put in CB and trust him is now shaping into a very good defender (I wouldnt swap him for Maguire). Consider that a lot of spurs fans didnt rate him there and he and JM have proven them wrong. Alderweireld who is settled and putting in displays similar to 2 years. Then there is Hojbjerg who cost us £15m and is our stand out player this season tbh. Ndombele who hasnt even shown a fraction of what he can do yet. Regulion, Aurier etc. The improvements he has brought to existing players and new players to the squad is remarkable. I really dont know how much more we can expect at Spurs from a manager.
No one is really claiming that Spurs are title challengers until we are in the run in with no mathematical chance of being caught. Even then SPurs would find some way to come 3rd. We accept that. However to blindly refuse to give JM credit shows MU fans in a bad light. He has done a good job so far and is building the team into something that he feels might challenge. We spurs fans will join the fun and see where it goes. As i started the post, to say its down to Son & Kane is absolute folly.
I'd say he's defensive but in control... That's not boring or anything negative really. It's just a different approach to the usual norm for a team at the top of the division. We're used to City's pretty passing triangles & Liverpool's high energy press. To see this different style doing so well is rather refreshing.
I certainly have more faith in Mourinho setting up for a big team than Ole, without any shadow of a doubt.
Why he failed at Utd is the interesting part. Did he change his basic approach too much from necessity due to the surroundings?
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Yesterday could have backfired... But that 2nd goal was crucial. After that they could happily sit back & concede possession. At 1-0 I doubt they surrender territory that easily. In the first half you could see the counter attack working a mile away, the second half not so much. Ceballos' introduction nerfed the counter to some extent as it gave Arsenal more disciplined possession from deep. With the Partey/Xhaka pivot there was less control.
I agree with your analysis. In the second half, Spurs – by design – played with zero intent as they knew they were in control. That isn’t particularly entertaining, but they got the result I suppose.
If that was your definition of controlling the game then you're right, there's no discussion to be had, if Arsenal weren't full of a mix of lazy cnuts and average players you'd have gotten slapped up the way they dominated the ball, and if you thought that was entertaining from your team, which was the serving up shite i was referring to btw, then I feel bad for you, as obnoxious as you are personally we all had to admit Spurs were a good watch under Pochettino. Like I say though, lets see if you disappear again when it goes to shit as you know as well as I do that it will under Mourinho.
I don't think there was any need for that.
For what? There's huge history with Glaston mate, I have no Spurs hate if you're a Spurs fan, we were all pulling for you to stop City and Liverpool despite the fact Glaston has been coming here for years talking shit and trashing United, and then when you went backwards last season he dipped out and all I'm doing is calling him on his actions and saying what I saw from the game yesterday.
It's a results business, especially when you haven't won bugger all for 300+ years. If this style of play wins the league for Spurs their fans won't give two hoots & rightly so.
Jesus man, we played that way against City and didn't get "slapped up". As for Poch being good to watch every single game? Its nothing more than a myth, we seen plenty of crab football under him... sideways pass after sideways pass.
Again, I don’t disagree. But you have very little latitude and the limitations of the approach are quickly laid bare if results go south.
This is basically the exactly right way to look at it I think. People can scoff and pundits can complain about how shit we play but as fans we simply won't give two hoots if we get some silverware this season. We would be absolutely over the moon. Long may our shit football (I actually think it's been very good) continue as long as we keep winning.
How long will your tolerance last if you don’t win anything?
Nonsense.
They've got quality all over the pitch. Their defence has improved a lot, their defensive midfielders are bossing it, as if Jose was on the pitch with them, and their counter attack is deadly.
Jose has set them up to use their world class strikers to full effectiveness, its not by chance. Arsenal could have played another 90 mins and not scored.
Brilliant squad, world class manager and I genuinely hope they mount a challenge.
They're all playing to the managers tune, who cares if they sit deep against rivals and top teams?
Probably about 3 matches.
Nah to be fair, Jose is building up trust not only of the players but the supporters too - we are starting to believe in him and I think we understand that at some point this season we will have a run of poor results - its inevitable.
The truth is that Covid has been a blessing to Mourinho. He has clearly concentrated on our defensive frailties and getting rid of the (as you love to say) 'Lads, it's Tottenham' tag but it has come at the price of sacrificing playing 'The Tottenham Way'. We've now reached the point where the end justifies the means, but the journey hasn't been pretty and he wouldn't have been given the time had he had to do it in front of a full Spurs house every other week. He requires a lot of patience to implement his style and methods and that's quite difficult to do in front of crowds with a history of playing entertaining football.
Probably about 3 matches.
That’s the point I have been making. I think attacking managers get more time when results go awry.
Jose and Spurs doing very well at the moment though, so it’s a moot argument at this point.
Leicester were 2000-1 to win the league and being managed by Ranieri, of course no one was going to care much about their style of play. That was a fairy tale ending ffs.
Questioning the intelligence of people because they don't agree with Mourinho's style of play doesn't display a huge amount of education or intelligence on your part, not does the, quite frankly, bizarre point about 200 crosses. It's a question of aesthetics not understanding and I'd never expect a Mourinho team to look play on the front foot in a big game.
Also if you think Mourinho doesn't have an ego the size of mountain I really don't know what to say.
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