Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Sean_RedDevil]

His approach for the match and post-match-comments are such obvious reasons why we will never win any trophy under him.

 

[Flexdegea]

I don't understand how a manager called the things he's called on this forum came third last season and if we win our game in hand are 3rd this season. Despite so many managers who aren't spoken about with such hate and are said to be better, being behind him.

The mental gymnastics at play are staggering. Beat leipzig 5-0 but 'that was totally unfair result.' lose to leipzig, 'what a fraud, completely out of his depth.' this type of double standard is just so routinely applied by the same posters there's not even a useful discussion happening here most of the time.

It's all very cringeworthy to read.

I'm not a full ole backer, and worry that despite doing a good job maybe he's reached his limit but seriously, some of you need to take a breath and calm down a little before posting sometimes. There's such rage and bitterness and sometimes even hate behind posts. And this is us with 13 points from 15 and 4 off the top. Try to see both sides of an argument, it helps

Excellent post its mad at moment,

 

[pocco]

Ole played it right imo. He couldn’t afford to lose, nothing to do with being cowardly, it’s pragmatic.

Wow. Clearly your no.1 priority is seeing Ole somehow survive rather than us actually play well or win games.

I'd rather we sack Ole and get someone new in but some of you are deranged. We were better than City for the most part and got a draw.

Can understand the anger after Leipzig but this is not the game for you to get all upset about.

We absolutely parked the bus and had no chances. They should have scored at least 1. But they were crap and there for the taking. I doubt you'd see many teams not try for more if City play like zombies against them too.

We are in purgatory. You guys don't know it yet.

I remember when we appointed him and I said that I hoped it was the right decision because, if not, getting rid of him will be incredibly tough. We're seeing that now. That fact that, yet again, were taking about him being under pressure says it all.

To all the Ole In posters, we don't want him out because we dislike him. That is ridiculous. But the fact that so many want him out should have alarm bells ringing for you all. It is that bad. He's a United legend and look at how much heat he is getting. A good manager, the right manager, rarely get themselves in this position (multiple times) without reason.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You are looking at two different things.

DDG says we can win the league.

The reaction you speak of is when Ole talks and sets us out to play in a defeatist manner, which is basically saying "no chance we can win the league if we play/set out like this".

I realize you feel you have to reply to anything and everything, evenif you fail to grasp the point being made. The reaction I speak of is exactly what I say they are. Win, lose or draw. Marvelous performance are a sack of shite. Sunny days or rainy nights. Every single day posts and points in the tone of those I tried to casually reproduce (and not even make it over the top) are written in this and other threads.

If you haven’t seen any of the posts I was pointing to, you’re either blind or part of the problem. Based on your reply of “No, you misunderstand your own point”, I’m leaning towards the latter.

 

[el3mel]

Goalpost dramatics or geneinue hyperbole about our state at the moment?

What, I haven't seen anyone claiming we're fighting for relegation ? Most people are angry about the ridiculous CL exit and the cowardly, negative approach we have taken in both matches against RB and City.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He’s so clearly not a Man Utd manager. You can’t set up playing for a 0-0 draw at Old Trafford, you just can’t, and he’s done it 3 times already this season.

Please just go!

 

[Oldham]

Embarrassing second half

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

What, I haven't seen anyone claiming we're fighting for relegation ? Most people are angry about the ridiculous CL exit and the cowardly, negative approach we have taken in both matches against RB and City.

The Ole obsessives are so blindly positive it’s not even worth the argument. Anyone who understands football can see we’ll do nothing under him.

If you’re happy with a top 4 battle every year, negative football & never sniffing silverware, Ole is your guy.

 

[iato89]

This is why many fans wnat Ole Out, and these are Neville's words:



"I think Ole has to start dominating games. In the last 12 months, where Manchester United have won games it has been through two forms of tactics. It's either been counter-attack or it has been in moments - Southampton and West Ham, in recent weeks. They aren't what you would really call performances, driving the other team into the ground. They are playing in moments.

"They have to start playing as a team and perform. Today was 'OK', but it's not a tactic for Manchester United to win football matches in the long-term or to win titles. All the teams who win titles dominate football matches - dominating possession, being on the front foot and winning big matches. Ole hasn't got Manchester United there yet and he's been in the job two years.

"Last season was massive, finishing third. That was a big, big moment for him. But now he has to got closer to City and Liverpool and dominate matches. I don't see it at this moment in time. The performances I am seeing are not anywhere near good enough.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't understand how a manager called the things he's called on this forum came third last season and if we win our game in hand are 3rd this season.

We just ignoring that Leicester & Southampton also have a game in hand?

In the “11 game league table” we’re 5th, behind Leicester and Southampton. Have we scored a goal at home yet?

 

[SER19]

I got set upon by another caf poster for suggesting this the other day, but I do feel it would be better if people could respond directly to the posters they are referring to, because I generally haven't seen that many of these "Ole out" posters who apparently "hate" the man.

There's too many to be tagging people. Today alone there's been coward, fraud, weasel and moron. The pe teacher stuff, the petty nicknames and comments about how he speaks and looks etc. It's all borderline disturbing when you think about it dispassionately. He's not even doing a terrible job and unlike predecessors is not doing anything but trying to put the club first and avoid the toxic stuff of a couple of years ago. I said hate was a part of it too, just a pretty ugly mess of rage, bitterness and lack of clear thinking. You don't have to look far

 

[AshRK]

I made it clear that the approach we have against big teams at home is not consistent with others. Your Chelsea examples were during empty stadiums too, so I'm not buying it being worse for us and better for others.

Lampard faced Liverpool at home and had them exchange blow for blow until the red card. They were not set out to play cautious. I suggest you rewatch the game up to the red card if you're not familiar, Fabinho saved a couple of Werner's breaking runs through to the Liverpool defence. Of course that stupidity from Christensen ruined the game.
Lampard faced Spurs with the lions share of possession (61%) and probably would have won had Abraham put away any one of the sitters that Reece James had placed on his head.
We played City today and created nothing outside a couple headers from a corner, and didn't even dictate the game, we had around 47% possession.

It's clear that other teams do not adopt the same cautious approach. Even Arteta who is the most cautious of all managers went at Spurs to attack them and most the game took place in Spurs' own half.


They may have settled for a draw but Chelsea created far more than we did today, and Chelsea also had dominated possession.

Yeah I don't have an issue with this - that's my view before a ball was kicked today. I'd have taken a point. But the way this game panned out, it's just poor as a performance.

If you followed my posts here you'll see I'm not counting good or bad results under Ole but I'm counting good or bad performances from us under him. In his 2nd full season at the club I expect more consistent performances. That's why I was pissed when we won 3-2 vs Brighton and happy at half time when we were 2-0 down to Southampton. And today, although we got a result I'd have taken before kick off, the problem is, our performance was lacking. There are chronic issues with our attack in the lack of familiar attacking patterns, the wastefulness of our strikers and the lack of press from the team. Look at how DCL, Richarldson, and Iwobi are hunting down Chelsea from the goalkeeper's short pass every single time. I havent' seen us do that once this season. It's the performances that are a concern today, not just how many results we muster.

Neville was right today in saying we are with the title pack but it feels off because the performances are a problem and you can't skim through games like that all too often. Ole needs to build on good performances not just good results, and he's not doing it. I praised him from Istanbul, praised him at HT at Southampton (because I just knew we'd win the game the way we played), and praised him against PSG even when we lost. But my count lasted at 3 before he plummeted against at West Ham. That shit isn't good enough. You can't be this inconsistent. He's terribly lucky that Chelsea and Arsenal took punts on novice managers too, as it helps his cause. But a club like Manchester United who have been in abyss for 8 years need to take less risks and get someone proven if this inconsistency continues.

Chelsea hardly did anything against Liverpool and I don't need to rewatch. You said they exchange blow with Liverpool before the red card. The red card happened just on the stroke of half time and this was the stats for the first half. Chelsea 1 shot on goal( zero on target ) to Liverpool's 7 shots with 54% possession. That's hardly an ambitious showing.

Now let us look at Lampard's chelsea against us at OT this season. We had 15 shots on goal to Chelsea's 6(just one on target). The overall possession was shared but we dominated the ball in second half with 57% possession. Chelsea's best player that match was Silva and Mendy who made 2 wonderful saves. Again showing how lampard played for the draw and showed no ambition.

I am not going to pretend we are playing some great football and I have said it couple of times that today's performance was not great but it was not end of the world result. I do understand that you weigh more into performance than result which is fine but we all live in result oriented world.

Many neutrals were praising our game against PSG and many even daid we should have won but we lost. Our performance that day was better than today's but we lost and because of that we finished 3rd and will play europa. Trust me many would have taken a boring 0-0 that day. Performance and result should go hand in hand. And we cannot be naive when we play these important games.

 

[VP89]

Chelsea hardly did anything against Liverpool and I don't need to rewatch. You said they exchange blow with Liverpool before the red card. The red card happened just on the stroke of half time and this was the stats for the first half. Chelsea 1 shot on goal( zero on target ) to Liverpool's 7 shots with 54% possession. That's hardly an ambitious showing.

I didn't say Chelsea created bucket loads of chances. I said Lampard had the intent to go out at Liverpool - and that was clear by how the game went out. Chelsea were trying to get at Liverpool rather than park the bus or just defend cautiously

Now let us look at Lampard's chelsea against us at OT this season. We had 15 shots on goal to Chelsea's 6(just one on target). The overall possession was shared but we dominated the ball in second half with 57% possession. Chelsea's best player that match was Silva and Mendy who made 2 wonderful saves. Again showing how lampard played for the draw and showed no ambition.

This point is immaterial - as I said I have a gripe with this set-up in home games. Pointing to Chelsea games where they are away from home bares no relevance - they will see it as a point gained. As mentioned before they certainly tried harder to get at Spurs than we did against City (and that was after Spurs beat City 2-0 too).

I am not going to pretend we are playing some great football and I have said it couple of times that today's performance was not great but it was not end of the world result. I do understand that you weigh more into performance than result which is fine but we all live in result oriented world.

Many neutrals were praising our game against PSG and many even daid we should have won but we lost. Our performance that day was better than today's but we lost and because of that we finished 3rd and will play europa. Trust me many would have taken a boring 0-0 that day. Performance and result should go hand in hand. And we cannot be naive when we play these important games.

Of course performances and results should go hand in hand. I see today as a good point but a bad result, which is why I had a gripe with the way we were set out. But our debate started with you suggesting there was some sort of media bias toward us when we set up when there clearly wasn't. BT Sport said many times they can understand why Ole was cautious but not Pep.

 

[90 + 5min]

This is why many fans wnat Ole Out, and these are Neville's words:



"I think Ole has to start dominating games. In the last 12 months, where Manchester United have won games it has been through two forms of tactics. It's either been counter-attack or it has been in moments - Southampton and West Ham, in recent weeks. They aren't what you would really call performances, driving the other team into the ground. They are playing in moments.

"They have to start playing as a team and perform. Today was 'OK', but it's not a tactic for Manchester United to win football matches in the long-term or to win titles. All the teams who win titles dominate football matches - dominating possession, being on the front foot and winning big matches. Ole hasn't got Manchester United there yet and he's been in the job two years.

"Last season was massive, finishing third. That was a big, big moment for him. But now he has to got closer to City and Liverpool and dominate matches. I don't see it at this moment in time. The performances I am seeing are not anywhere near good enough.

We are infront of City and closed down distance to Liverpool. It is fact. Just look at the table. I like Gary but he is wrong in this case.

 

[Carl]

Ole in. Love that baby faces cnut.

 

[Gazza]

There's too many to be tagging people. Today alone there's been coward, fraud, weasel and moron. The pe teacher stuff, the petty nicknames and comments about how he speaks and looks etc. It's all borderline disturbing when you think about it dispassionately. He's not even doing a terrible job and unlike predecessors is not doing anything but trying to put the club first and avoid the toxic stuff of a couple of years ago. I said hate was a part of it too, just a pretty ugly mess of rage, bitterness and lack of clear thinking. You don't have to look far

I do think the posts you are talking about really a minority, the type that you see on pretty much any football message board, but fair enough if it does disturb you to that extent. I think Ole deserves criticism and should expect it as the manager of United, but I do agree that just calling him a weasel or a moron is not helpful.

 

[Carl]

This is why many fans wnat Ole Out, and these are Neville's words:



"I think Ole has to start dominating games. In the last 12 months, where Manchester United have won games it has been through two forms of tactics. It's either been counter-attack or it has been in moments - Southampton and West Ham, in recent weeks. They aren't what you would really call performances, driving the other team into the ground. They are playing in moments.

"They have to start playing as a team and perform. Today was 'OK', but it's not a tactic for Manchester United to win football matches in the long-term or to win titles. All the teams who win titles dominate football matches - dominating possession, being on the front foot and winning big matches. Ole hasn't got Manchester United there yet and he's been in the job two years.

"Last season was massive, finishing third. That was a big, big moment for him. But now he has to got closer to City and Liverpool and dominate matches. I don't see it at this moment in time. The performances I am seeing are not anywhere near good enough.

I love Neville but I dont care about his viewpoint on this. United under Ole has been the best I've felt about United since Fergie. That's not to say it couldn't be better mind, but the grass is always greener right?

 

[90 + 5min]

He’s so clearly not a Man Utd manager. You can’t set up playing for a 0-0 draw at Old Trafford, you just can’t, and he’s done it 3 times already this season.

Please just go!

You can and every Top manager have done that. From Ferguson to Lippi. From Anchelotti to Mourinho.

 

[Shark]

We just ignoring that Leicester & Southampton also have a game in hand?

In the “11 game league table” we’re 5th, behind Leicester and Southampton. Have we scored a goal at home yet?

It's hilarious seeing them them try and normalise how shite we truly are under OGS.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

You can and every Top manager have done that. From Ferguson to Lippi. From Anchelotti to Mourinho.

When did Fergie ever play for a 0-0 at Old Trafford?

 

[SER19]

I do think the posts you are talking about really a minority, the type that you see on pretty much any football message board, but fair enough if it does disturb you to that extent. I think Ole deserves criticism and should expect it as the manager of United, but I do agree that just calling him a weasel or a moron is not helpful.

It's pathological. People can try rationalise but it says more about the poster or at least the way they allow themselves to behave online.

Being a club legend absolutely shouldn't buy you time as a manager or lower standards, but being the guy who scored that goal in Barcelona alone, should place you above that bile that gets posted, you say in the minority, I say in pretty much every thread about him. It's very very weird and those posters can pretend it's not, but likely need to think a bit more clearly before posting

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We are infront of City and closed down distance to Liverpool. It is fact. Just look at the table. I like Gary but he is wrong in this case.

Yeah, everybody's wrong apart from you. Even his best mate has finally admitted what we are all saying.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

We just ignoring that Leicester & Southampton also have a game in hand?

In the “11 game league table” we’re 5th, behind Leicester and Southampton. Have we scored a goal at home yet?

The Ole obsessives will clutch at all the straws. We’ve got the “post lockdown league table” the “Bruno league table” & now the “game in hand table” I’m waiting patiently for the “if our shots that hit the post went in league table”

 

[John Blund]

He’s so clearly not a Man Utd manager. You can’t set up playing for a 0-0 draw at Old Trafford, you just can’t, and he’s done it 3 times already this season.

OK, who would you play instead of the starting line up with our squad today? We started with Fred, McT, Pogba, Fernandes, Rash, and Greenwood. City currently on 8th place, but we all know they're currently the best team in the league on their day if De Bruyne gets his room.

Another noteworthy thing: Pep played two defensive-minded CDMs, probably for the first time in PL for him. They took Fernandes out of the game, and we took De Bruyne out. Martial is out of form. Greenwood hasn't been in form this season (Yes, I saw his goal against Hammers), Rash hasn't been in great form (again, MOTM against Hammers, but still...).

Ole clearly is a Man United manager. That's a fact. Unless he got sacked while I'm typing this post. Sometimes it's about getting those dirty wins, but also saving the players. We're going in to X-mas with 5 matches in 17 days. If we pull out a string of games, we could be looking at a very nice table for us when we meet Liverpool in January.
Patience is the key - there's no way Ole will be sacked before we're clearly out of the CL race. As long as Ole is the manager, I'm gonna stand behind him.

 

[90 + 5min]

I do think the posts you are talking about really a minority, the type that you see on pretty much any football message board, but fair enough if it does disturb you to that extent. I think Ole deserves criticism and should expect it as the manager of United, but I do agree that just calling him a weasel or a moron is not helpful.

Not just Solskjaer. The stuff written about us who still think he is man to lead us is lot to. If I am right It was even a post how we would let our partners be *** by Solskjaer and would still accept it. We are used to this kind of behavior by those who hate Solskjaer but you just let it pass by. No need to be angry at people that loves hating.

 

[AshRK]

I didn't say Chelsea created bucket loads of chances. I said Lampard had the intent to go out at Liverpool - and that was clear by how the game went out. Chelsea were trying to get at Liverpool rather than park the bus or just defend cautiously

This point is immaterial - as I said I have a gripe with this set-up in home games. Pointing to Chelsea games where they are away from home bares no relevance - they will see it as a point gained. As mentioned before they certainly tried harder to get at Spurs than we did against City (and that was after Spurs beat City 2-0 too).

Of course performances and results should go hand in hand. I see today as a good point but a bad result, which is why I had a gripe with the way we were set out. But our debate started with you suggesting there was some sort of media bias toward us when we set up when there clearly wasn't. BT Sport said many times they can understand why Ole was cautious but not Pep.

I always find these possession stats and even shots on goal stats to be a bit meaningless. For example we had 59% of ball possession against Leipzig this past Tuesday and had 19 shots in comparison to their 9 but it means nothing as at the end of the day whole world was laughing at us for bottling a chance to progress.

Comparing spurs to city is weird. City are known to have more ball possession than spurs. So chelsea will naturally dominate the ball against spurs just like arteta did or just like any half decent side will against a jose side.But that doesn't mean their performance is good I know we.lost 6-1 but that result was an rarity and we were just not their that day. We had tons of possession under van gaal but doesn't mean our performance was any good. We looked toothless in most games.

Coming to today's game, repeating for 4th time yes we were not great going forward but this whole myth that city completely dominated is incorrect. It was a boring game between two sides who did not want to lose. I know you will now say but we are the home side well this season we have hardly looked great at home without fans so it has hardly been an advantage like you make it sound. I would have infact preferred to play away today. Home/away without fans become meaningless.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's hilarious seeing them them try and normalise how shite we truly are under OGS.

It’s the constant alternative league tables that blow me away, I mean, of course mention our game in hand, but just ignoring some teams above us also have a game in hand and trying to make out “we’re 3rd if we win ours” is just odd.

We’re 5th if we all win our game in hand, but if Villa win their games in hand, we’re 6th. that will suffice fellas.

If Villa win their games in hand and we lose ours, we’re 9th.

 

[90 + 5min]

When did Fergie ever play for a 0-0 at Old Trafford?

You missed good old days when we played for draw in CL.

Yeah, everybody's wrong apart from you. Even his best mate has finally admitted what we are all saying.

It is there to see. Are we infront of City? Have we closed in on Liverpool looking at last year? It is not rocket science.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

You missed good old days when we played for draw in CL.

It is there to see. Are we infront of City? Have we closed in on Liverpool looking at last year? It is not rocket science.

Away from home in knockout games? Yes, I remember. I never remember him setting up negatively at home.

 

[el3mel]

The Ole obsessives will clutch at all the straws. We’ve got the “post lockdown league table” the “Bruno league table” & now the “game in hand table” I’m waiting patiently for the “if our shots that hit the post went in league table”

Maybe "penalties only" league table ? A table that only counts goals scored from penalties and nothing else. I bet we'll be smashing this table!

 

[90 + 5min]

Away from home in knockout games? Yes, I remember. I never remember him setting up negatively at home.

So, what is the difference?
And Now, that there is no home advantage either?

 

[GiddyUp]

We are infront of City and closed down distance to Liverpool. It is fact. Just look at the table. I like Gary but he is wrong in this case.

No, he is not. Coming back from behind nearly every away game and an abysmal home form is unsustainable for a top 4 challenge. In fact you have been wrong more times today on this site than Gary Neville has in his whole life.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You missed good old days when we played for draw in CL.

Rubbish. We never used negative tactics with SAF against so-called better teams, we attacked, we attacked Barca both times the best team in the world ever, we also attacked the Real Galacticos we didn't set up the team to destroy the other teams game like Ole and hope for a counter or a corner.

It is there to see. Are we infront of City? Have we closed in on Liverpool looking at last year? It is not rocket science.

It's there to see what? We are 4 points of the top with another seven teams between us are they all going to lose? We are also 4 points of 14th. Closer to Liverpool than last year and in front of City? yes but not because we have improved, they have declined.

 

[Gazza]

It's pathological. People can try rationalise but it says more about the poster or at least the way they allow themselves to behave online.

Being a club legend absolutely shouldn't buy you time as a manager or lower standards, but being the guy who scored that goal in Barcelona alone, should place you above that bile that gets posted, you say in the minority, I say in pretty much every thread about him. It's very very weird and those posters can pretend it's not, but likely need to think a bit more clearly before posting

Fair enough. I'll just add that something can be in every thread and still be in the minority, btw

 

[90 + 5min]

No, he is not. Coming back from behind nearly every away game and an abysmal home form is unsustainable for a top 4 challenge. In fact you have been wrong more times today on this site than Gary Neville has in his whole life.

Coming back or not we got the points we got. Same as other teams.
You can write that 100 times and still it is not correct. Are we not infront of City? Haven’t we closed in on Liverpool looking at last year? In other words. Gary is wrong here.

 

[Gazza]

Not just Solskjaer. The stuff written about us who still think he is man to lead us is lot to. If I am right It was even a post how we would let our partners be *** by Solskjaer and would still accept it. We are used to this kind of behavior by those who hate Solskjaer but you just let it pass by. No need to be angry at people that loves hating.

I'm not trying to be funny, but I genuinely cannot work out what point you are making here. Not sure what you are accusing me of. Sorry!

 

[pocco]

This is why many fans wnat Ole Out, and these are Neville's words:



"I think Ole has to start dominating games. In the last 12 months, where Manchester United have won games it has been through two forms of tactics. It's either been counter-attack or it has been in moments - Southampton and West Ham, in recent weeks. They aren't what you would really call performances, driving the other team into the ground. They are playing in moments.

"They have to start playing as a team and perform. Today was 'OK', but it's not a tactic for Manchester United to win football matches in the long-term or to win titles. All the teams who win titles dominate football matches - dominating possession, being on the front foot and winning big matches. Ole hasn't got Manchester United there yet and he's been in the job two years.

"Last season was massive, finishing third. That was a big, big moment for him. But now he has to got closer to City and Liverpool and dominate matches. I don't see it at this moment in time. The performances I am seeing are not anywhere near good enough.

That is bang on. We're capable of that, too. I see mid to lower table teams manage it.

Woodward needs to listen to this and realise that we can do so much better. It didn't need another £150-200m throwing at it. Once a manager proves they can get the most out of these players and its still not good enough, then reassess and let the right manager finish the project as he sees fit. Ole had a chance and he's treading water whilst desperately gasping for air.

Don't let it get to the stage where it gets ugly and supporters have to vocally turn on one of their own in the stadium or whatever. Save his reputation, thank him for the good he has done and ease him out of the club with his head held high and with a bit of positivity still intact.

 

[90 + 5min]

Rubbish. We never used negative tactics with SAF against so-called better teams, we attacked, we attacked Barca both times the best team in the world ever, we also attacked the Real Galacticos we didn't set up the team to destroy the other teams game like Ole and hope for a counter or a corner.

It's there to see what? We are 4 points of the top with another seven teams between us are they all going to lose? We are also 4 points of 14th. Closer to Liverpool than last year and in front of City? yes but not because we have improved, they have declined.

Yes we did. Plenty of times.
If they declined I’m sure they all are sacking their managers soon. From Liverpool to City. Right? Or we can see it that league is tough and it is harder to win. Whatever you choose it still is that we are closer to Liverpool and infront of City.

 

[90 + 5min]

I'm not trying to be funny, but I genuinely cannot work out what point you are making here. Not sure what you are accusing me of. Sorry!

Not you. Some of other posters

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Yes we did. Plenty of times.
If they declined I’m sure they all are sacking their managers soon. From Liverpool to City. Right? Or we can see it that league is tough and it is harder to win. Whatever you choose it still is that we are closer to Liverpool and infront of City.

I see no point in carrying on this conversation.