We can be more understanding on certain issues, but the club need to appreciate our frustrations with how badly it's been run since 2013
Is our fanbase the most entitled/ knee jerk toxic fanbase around?
- Thread starter ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg
- Start date
Needs to also jump around like a maniac on the touchline shouting expletives at his players and take on the owners and the FA in his press conferences too. Else it’s OleOUT.
Don't forget that if we are up he needs to sub our best players off early to rest them, but we have to keep the same intensity and skill on the field with the not as skilled players which they will manage due to coaching. And the opposition should not be allowed to enter our half of the pitch. And we have to never miss a pass, but also create amazing attack chances full of flair while megging their defenders.
If he can't even do these things then it's as I told y'all, he's just a smiling relegation PE not-English washed up excuse for a Manager. A real ambitious club would have sacked the manager who (essentially, with some goodwill for the game in hand) has us in 2nd place in December for the first time in years.
The problem with the sacking argument and very toxic attitude is that everything gets black or white and unvarnished. I guess the way United play right now is neither only negative or positive?
This quarrel have started to make us look stupid. I just hope it doesn’t affect the coaching team and the players. I think most fans realise it’s no easy answer to the managerial question. So let us stop pretend it’s a quick fix on this issue.
Ole has some great unique skills, but me neither is convinced Ole is the right manager. But I think it’s to early to conclude. Mostly because I don’t think the squad holds the standard required to guarantee titles and top 4.
The critique against Ole is mostly about tactical dispositions. If the tactical dispositions are very wrong, why isn’t any assistant managers replaced? Is it because the “sport department”, coaching staff and players agree how to play or how they want to play (perhaps it’s a greater or more compound plan behind), and is it the execution of the plan or the plan which it’s something wrong with?
My advise is to await the managerial decision until things become more clear. I think we’ll have our answer within April.
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Most fans of other clubs on the internet are same, if not worse.
But, I will tell you about the opinion most fans of other clubs outside England have about our club that I talked with. They laugh at the club and think we are mostly irrelevant. Something like AC Milan. Once a big club, heavily struggling to get back on the top without seeing us there any time soon. The amount of money we spent doesn't help.
The opinions of internet fans is certainly not representative of our fan base. The way they behave on the stand is and there has been mostly nothing but support even when we were really, really bad (which happened an awful lot of time in these last 7+ years). Some will say it is actually part of the problem, but I don't agree with it because the board is the one who should be setting the standards of this club and it's direction.
Lastly, people come to the internet mostly to vent and matchday thread is nothing more than a reactionary thread which happens in the heat of the moment. It sometimes gets bad, but I rarely go in there because if there is a game I like to watch it, not type and read posts during it. It is also the kind of reactions you get in the pub if you are watching the game with your mates after few beers. You are certainly not all patient during it and when there is a clear feck up from some player or team has a collective brainfart go around the pub explaining to people that "it's part of the process and the boys will get better pointing at them the league table for the last 25 matches where they can see a progress".
There are people who can't wait to slag the manager and club here (it is unavoidable when you have such a big forum), but overall you are wrong and overreacting on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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I don’t mind keeping Ole to see what he does but lots of “if’s” going on in your statement.
Well for one we could have won in Turkey against that top class side we played.
2 or 3 others in the league I can think of were the opponents hit the woodwork about 3 times per game.
Or what about the first half against Leipzig were we bottled it? Or the times we got mugged off by Spurs, Arsenal and Palace at home because apparently our players weren’t fit?
I guess our players are fit now after half a season of football so none of that counts though.
The problem seems to be that quite a lot of our internet fans don't seem to understand much about football, some haven't been following for long (thus lack the experience of the ups and downs of a typical season) and want instant gratification. With a global representation, it is perhaps not surprising and hopefully the newish supporters will learn as they go.
Watching between 1992-93 and 2012-13 was great - it was a time of well above average performance, following a lean time in the first division after 1966-67.
Fans who started watching in this period often talk about lack of ambition, but the hard truth is that it is difficult to stay at the top for sustained periods - look at Liverpool, back at the top after years of non-achievement in the Premier League.
There are so many factors that need to align for a club to become dominant, such as right combination of players (including leadership on the field), leadership off the field, squad management, coaching etc. It isn't easy and there is good fortune involved, as well as good management.
I like what Ole's done so far, but am not prosaic, so don't know how it will end with him; I hope it works out, because he seems to have decent values and care about the game/club.
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So you're saying we should win 100% of our games, not allow the opposition any chances or goals, dominate the whole 90 minutes and do it with flair. Is that about right?
We haven't won any major trophy (ie EPL or CL) for the past 7 years. We spent 83m euros this season and we still got knocked out by Istanbul whatever as the defence PE teacher had assembled on the tune of 145m keeps leaking goals left, right and centre. If the club ran out of juice then its only fair for us to lower the expectations as no one can win major trophies without ££££. However we spent a looping 1 Billion on transfers since Sir Alex left his job. Can you imagine such a thing happening at a club like Real or Bayern? Of course not. That's unacceptable at any top club whose also a big big spender.
I think this is a key point, it’s not negativity that is the problem, it’s just the same boring old incoherent shit from morons that is the problem.
I’m Ole in but I’d have the same issue with dozens of people posting “Ole is a genius!!” in every fecking thread, the child like level of discourse is just shite and barely a notch above Twitter at times.
People need to calm down and maybe take an anger management course or do yoga. Especially those rabid gammon Trumpite fecks on the Ole Out side of the fence
I find this thread and the op a bit hard to get my head around but here’s my take on things.
When each member of Red Cafe creates a post, they determine how they want to impact other members. It’s a matter of personal responsibility. We each choose whether to wind up, put down, praise, build up, thank, ridicule, humiliate or insult members, players, Ole, Ed and anyone else.
Every forum has its keyboard warriors churning out the Bertie Big Bollocks stuff but the majority of our members are fair, reasonable, personable folk with a shared passion for the best club in the world.
When each member of Red Cafe creates a post, they determine how they want to impact other members. It’s a matter of personal responsibility. We each choose whether to wind up, put down, praise, build up, thank, ridicule, humiliate or insult members, players, Ole, Ed and anyone else.
Every forum has its keyboard warriors churning out the Bertie Big Bollocks stuff but the majority of our members are fair, reasonable, personable folk with a shared passion for the best club in the world.
Can’t beat a bit of irony.
Couldn't make it up
Reading through this thread I think gives one a very good picture of who the childish and angry supporters really are
What a fantastic post. Thank you for that.
So many angry people in here from both 'sides' 
. Think people need to chill the feck out and get into the festive spirit.
. Think people need to chill the feck out and get into the festive spirit.So pray tell your solution?
We’ve sacked managers, changes coaches, sold and bought players. Not sure comparing us to Bayern is helpful, they’re financially bossing their league and hoover up all rivals best players, just like we used to be able to do. Real are in a 2 club league, so pretty much nailed on them or Barca win the league every season. United operate in a far more competitive league and bar getting Klopp from pool, I’m unsure how we proceed. Even Pep is struggling in our league, despite massive financial backing.
I'm sorry but it was not foreign fans, it ENGLISH ones that hire the plane humiliating moyes in front of not just the world but his bloody family, it was not foreign fans that sang ta ra fergie in 89, nor was it foreigners that demand giggys out in 03/04.
So point be, get off that high horse you climbed upon, as English fans are just as guilty as what you try level at foreign fans, now if you have said it was the generation know as me, me me, aka millennial's, I'd agree.
Wait until after 20 mins of tomorrow’s game. We haven’t seen anything yet!
A lot of people in this thread are acting like complaining about the negative posters is just as bad as the negative posters.
Absolutely. Not.
Despite having a decent season so far some people have been throwing shit at the wall for months. The clubs an embarrassment; Solskjaer is a mediocre, backwards, tactically inept manager; we need to sign Sancho; Rashford; we are in a relegation battle etc.
The level of discourse has dropped dramatically. That is not being overly negative that is a fact. It is not being a “Top Red” to say that the way some people act on this forum is a joke. They’re constantly whining and insulting the club they apparently support.
Basically, if someone comes into a public bathroom, slings shit all over the walls and then pisses all over the ceiling and then someone else comes in and says “well that’s not really on is it?” - you can’t really equate both sides.
Absolutely. Not.
Despite having a decent season so far some people have been throwing shit at the wall for months. The clubs an embarrassment; Solskjaer is a mediocre, backwards, tactically inept manager; we need to sign Sancho; Rashford; we are in a relegation battle etc.
The level of discourse has dropped dramatically. That is not being overly negative that is a fact. It is not being a “Top Red” to say that the way some people act on this forum is a joke. They’re constantly whining and insulting the club they apparently support.
Basically, if someone comes into a public bathroom, slings shit all over the walls and then pisses all over the ceiling and then someone else comes in and says “well that’s not really on is it?” - you can’t really equate both sides.
Oh, we have another ‘I am a top read and you others suck’ thread.
How many others are there?
It's like a face-off between two sets of moaners who are equally as mind numbingly tedious as the other. The moaners about the moaners are something else though. Self-awareness-lacking alert.
Absolute top post and as an ildwr fan sums up how I sse it perfectly
Sorry, me old son, but I didn't say it was all because of foreign fans, just the lack of understanding is exacerbated by the global footprint, which includes many new supporters who may not understand the tradtions of English elite football - indeed many may be fairly new to football.
As to the rest of your racist rant, I'll just ignore that, as it isn't worth responding to.
One of those threads you knew who'd written it just from the title.
value added as per.
The post dispelled the notion that United fans are an entitled lot. This club has been a laughing stock for 7 long years. If that argument was true then most of us wouldn't be here in the first place. Actually from experience on this forum and in supporters clubs the ones who fecked off were the so called top reds. I happen to be friend of many of them and most say pretty much the same thing ie the club isn't 'what it used to be'. Imagine the insults if that was said by a 'moaner'
Regarding your question I believe that the first thing we need to do is to embrace the fact that football had moved on since the 70s. The time when the manager used to cater for everything football related is gone. Modern managers had been raised relying on the likes of DOFs, technical directors, head of recruitments and CEOs who understand football. So if let's say Nagelsmann has the same potential of a young Sir Alex and we end up hiring him had then he'll probably still fail with us simply because he has zero experience on certain key parts of Sir Alex's job like for example hiring top coaches and spotting/persuading top talent to join the club. Thus its important for us to seriously restructure the club by bringing in specialised/top people in the right jobs. Once that had been sorted then we can identify and address any weaknesses. For example if we keep signing duds then there's something wrong in the scouting/head of recruitment's department. If we start dishing 10 year contract extensions to the likes of Jones or Lingard or we simply can't offload the deadwood then its the DOF's fault. If our tactics are shit and the players don't respect the manager then its the manager's fault and if our players are struggling in simple issues like staying fit or pass the ball quickly and accurately etc then its the coaches fault.
Another thing that United need to embrace is the notion that we're a big club who pay huge salaries. We should therefore hire the best people on the market. Would that always work? Of course not. However if let's say Bill Gates need an operation then he'll probably go for one of the best surgeons in the world. In the unlikely event that this surgeon messes up then I very much doubt that Mr Gates would hire a nurse to perform his operation simply because he is his mate. He'll probably go for another top surgeon and hope for the best. United's structure borders to the ridiculous. We have an inexperienced CEO whose got no idea about football, we've got a banker as head of recruitment, we've got some guy from Molde as manager and we've probably got the most inexperienced coaching staff at top club level.
Redcafe seems to be a lot more “holier than thou” than average United fans you’ll see around the city.
We’re entitled & knee jerk because we’re sick of being a laughing stock & want to be serious again? Fans like this who have lowered their standards are part of the problem with this club. Some of you would be happy with 10 more years of challenging for top 4.
We’re entitled & knee jerk because we’re sick of being a laughing stock & want to be serious again? Fans like this who have lowered their standards are part of the problem with this club. Some of you would be happy with 10 more years of challenging for top 4.
fecking excellent post man. Basically everything I think but don’t have the way with words to articulate haha.
Some fans do not understand what a rebuilding process is especially after us appointing the wrong candidates after SAF and of course the influx of below-standard players we signed at Man United. For me I feel lucky to be in this phase as I discovered Man Utd in the early 2000s (when we signed Ruud honestly) so to be part of the fans who are waiting for the team to go back on its feet is just a one-time experience (pretty much like the fans watching us prior to 1993, waiting for SAF to build a squad that is capable of getting that trophy) It would have been interesting to know the average age of the posters here, my assumption is that the young generation (20-30) is the one with most negativity as they woke up to the United of 1998, 2000s, 2008 (famous comeback etc), rarely used to United not challenging/winning the PL. SAF raised the bar so high and sometimes people forget that, we had the most unique manager to ever exist in the world of football, so it's normal for the true fan to understand that it takes a lot to fill that gap especially that again, we started horribly by appointing all those managers before Ole, coming here sometimes and reading some of the negative posts is just baffling because as United fan you'd expect other fans to understand that the current people in charge REALLY want to make the club great again but it will take some time to get that engine up and running...
I doubt we ever hired a manager who said "Ok I'd love to leave a mess behind because I can't be bothered making the club great again". Moyes ruined his career with us, LVG retired on a sour note while Mou ended up with fecking Spurs. All our previous managers had paid a huge price for their failings.
I can only speak about myself here but I see no rebuilding process whatsoever. We hired an inexperienced manager who brought his own coaching staff and his own signings in the team just as Moyes/Mou/LVG did. Some have been a hit (basically Bruno) while others are turning to be overrated or/and expensive signings (James, AWB, Maguire etc). If a new manager had to be hired today then he'll look around the squad and wonder why we spent a looping 145m on a defence that keeps leaking goals and he'll be wondering why on earth we gave top coaching jobs to the likes of Carrick, Dempsey and Mckenna. He would opt for a clean sweep just like what other previous managers had done. Since we've got no DOF to supervise what's going on then he'll probably uproot not only the bad stuff but also some good stuff as well only to bring in his own people who might or might not be good enough. If he's a top manager then he'll probably improve us tactically. However in certain aspects like in the transfer market, contract renewals, hiring of top coaches etc we'll still be shite. That's because managers have no experience on that matter anymore and if he's good enough then he's too busy to do his job to do the DOF/Technical director's job.
I was initially Ole in because I hoped that the club will be forced to surround such inexperienced manager with experienced people. They simply wouldn't set Ole to fail and Ole will eat the humble pie and accept any help he can get to make this work. Oh boy how wrong I was. Till the time of writing we still lack of a DOF. Meanwhile our coaches are mostly all Ole's mates with equal/less experienced to him.
Yes, our fanbase is toxic. We might as well be called "Agenda FC". Maguire can win 100 headers in a row but all of a sudden Lindelof heads a ball of another player for a goal and Maguire gets blamed for not going to win that header himself. The scapegoating our fanbase does when looking to blame the players they don't like is unbelievable. And we have a long history of doing this. We chase our best players out of the club with our constant scapegoating...
Not the oul lowing standards one again.
Standards doesn't mean moaning more FS.
We have one of the biggest and international fan bases in the world. No wonder everyone disagrees with each other. Just too many supporters which means many different opinions.
Good post.
How about having 2 or 3 games in a row where we look comfortable. Is that too much to ask for? We've played 12 league games and the only game where we controlled it was against Everton, even though we went behind early. Shouldn't we be seeing more consistency in our performances after 2 years?
It seems me there’s a lot of toxic posting online regardless of topics having nothing to do with sport. Politics, entertainment, even photography...rife with a lot of very harsh posting. And on this forum as well, but definitely not limited to the caf in terms of football forums.
Quite a few posts here I disagree with but I find the banter overall to be a value add to my appreciation and understanding of what’s going on with United and football in general. Carry on!
Quite a few posts here I disagree with but I find the banter overall to be a value add to my appreciation and understanding of what’s going on with United and football in general. Carry on!
That's your opinion. I think being the in-form in the PL in 2020, as well as across the last 6 rounds is quite significant in itself. I would also say that against Southampton and WBA we were by far the dominant and more comfortable team. Against the Saints we conceded two goals from set pieces and almost no pressure from the opponents while against the Baggies our forwards couldn't score to save their lives.
As for your last question, maybe look at Liverpool after 2 years under Klopp and see how consistent were they.
No. Next question
The most entitled and toxic fanbase on Earth is Real Madrid fans. No contest.