How good was Riquelme?

A proper south American playmaker who played the game at his pace. Would never have suited the PL at all. A fantastic talent. Its a shame we see less off the cuff players like him and djalminha nowadays. Great to watch.
 
Physiocrat said:
Excellent vid @Raees

How would you build around Riquelme to maximise his assets whilst having a back up if he doesn't happen to turn it on?

I was thinking he might be best served in a lopsided 4231 with a left forward like Blokhin on the left and an attacking left back. So in possession Blokhin becomes a second striker so it is similar to a diamond but you have another genuine creator on the right wing in Figo. Instead of target man someone more like Elkjaer or Eto'o as the 9. Slow the tempo down relative to a traditional European 4231 (Figo works, not sure about Blokhin) but I think that should give him full freedom with an extra creative outlet alongside him
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Cling Bak showed us how to do it.
 
Absolutely loved him as a player. The kind that you would gladly pay to watch live. Yes he needs a certain set-up to really thrive, but still a footballing genius.
 
TwoSheds said:
A fantastic luxury player and one that wouldn't have fitted in at United I don't think. He's what Ozil wishes he was.
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Prime Ozil is much better. This coming from someone who loved Riquelme.
 
Renegade said:
Prime Ozil is much better. This coming from someone who loved Riquelme.
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Nah, not for me sorry. Quicker yes, better no way. Riquelme was a magician. Like I say, a luxury player though, zero workrate, much less than Ozil even. If you want to play high press or whatever you'd have no chance with this guy but he was unbelievable on the ball.
 
TwoSheds said:
Nah, not for me sorry. Quicker yes, better no way. Riquelme was a magician. Like I say, a luxury player though, zero workrate, much less than Ozil even. If you want to play high press or whatever you'd have no chance with this guy but he was unbelievable on the ball.
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I just don’t think Riquelme could have played in that Madrid side Ozil did and make the same impact. I don’t think he could have come to the premier league and put up the numbers Ozil did on those first couple seasons. Stylistically perhaps his better, but that could be said against plenty other AM’s like Gerrard & Lampard and I don’t think his better than those guys either.
I’d have him at Wesley Sneijder level. But level below
Kaka, Lampard, Gerrard & even Ozil.
 
Technically brilliant but not a natural mover with the ball which is a fatal flaw for a playmaker. As Maradona said, what use is a player that can't shake off a man. Normally a player like that ends up being a midfielder but he couldn't cause he's never going to defend. He was doomed from the beginning.

He was never Zidane not even close. He wasn't even close to Rui Costa levels. Id even have Valeron long before id take him. Nowhere near as dynamic. Nowhere near the off the ball movement. He couldn't as some on here say 'attack the space' like Zizou. He was a stationary player who could manipulate the ball with great passing.
 
Physiocrat said:
How would you build around Riquelme to maximise his assets whilst having a back up if he doesn't happen to turn it on?
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I like the idea of playing him in an upgraded version of Pellegrini's Yellow Submarines (4—2—2—2 + 4—4—2), so maybe something like this...

Suárez—Baggio
Iniesta—Cerezo—Tigana—Riquelme
Brehme—Godín—Ruggeri—Amoros
Dasayev​

  • Should have plenty to do as the team's principal tempo-setter/schemer from midfield.
  • Lots of dynamism in all segments of the pitch to mask his flaws.
  • Both Baggio and Iniesta would be fine in a slowburning build-up, and their slipperiness would be a complementary characteristic.
  • Neither of those two were strict about having the ball at all times and could play the consummate sous chef role, so Riquelme won't be starved of it.
  • In case he fails, Iniesta and Baggio have enough creative nous between them to guide the team.
  • As a bonus, it's also an asymmetric diamond, which approximates some of the Boca/Argentina teams he excelled in.
All of that being said, constructing a truly great collective around Riquelme seems to be a distinctly counter-intuitive endeavor as he would be better in a team where he is the top dog (as that is where he performed to the best of his abilities when you consider the totality of his rather enigmatic career).
 
Physiocrat said:
I can't see the formation pic. Was Overmars a second-striker with Mcmanaman and Ze Roberto RCM and LCM?
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Overmars on the left, Mcmanaman on the right, Henry up top.

By the final Henry moved left, Overmars to the right, and R9 through the middle.
 
I think he played in the right era for his style. I remember when a Kaka and Ronaldonho-less Brazil trashed Messi, Riquelme and Veron with just pressing and counter attacks in that Copa America final.

Speaking of which, I think Ze Roberto would be a much bigger player in todays era, he could play 4 positions, amazing lungs and a beautiful left foot. Imagine Pep using him like Fernandinho or something
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Did he play with, permanently linked to United, Marcus Senna?
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Yes, was a really cool team that should've reached CL final (they battered Arsenal even before late penalty miss) and would've given Barca a game in final although don't think they'd have won (probably like Valencia in 2000 final).

Always had a soft spot for yellow submarine.
 
He was very good but never really understood in Europe. The worst thing it happened to him when he arrived at Barcelona was to have someone like Van Gaal there. He almost destroyed his confidence. Villareal and Pellegrini as a South American coach was the best thing after that. Certainly one of the best last real number 10's this century had. Don't buy the theory to be known as a world class player you need to be protagonist at a European Super Club. He is the perfect example of that.
 
world class on champ manager. I felt his retirement prevented Argentina from making that final leap. Everything had to go through Messi when really it needed to go through another player and then play in Messi
 
I felt his career didnt line up for him.

Some will say that - well you have to make it line up yourself; whilst that is true to some extent, Riquelme may have just been a poor sub decision in a world cup away from changing that perspective of him for alot of people.

It just doesn't and wont work perfectly for everyone. As good as a player is, if the manager doesn't want you he will do things to push you out of the club as spoil your career as seen with managers like Van Gaal or Mourinho.

It's not so simple about players achievement of a potential like a game of football manager or fifa - it can change very quickly, by a sub, by a club, by a manager by a quick decision made by you or made by someone else.
 
Stacks said:
world class on champ manager. I felt his retirement prevented Argentina from making that final leap. Everything had to go through Messi when really it needed to go through another player and then play in Messi
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Agreed, but I think that player is Veron not Riquelme. I feel Riquelme and Messi attempt to play the same type of pass.
 
Raees said:


Some say he was better than Zidane, for me that is slightly overrating him - not in terms of ability per se but mentality wise, it isn't close. I also do not buy into the myth that we were going to sign him and he would have been a success here... I would have envisaged another Veron situation.

Having said that I really wish Pekerman hadn't taken him off in the quarter final and we see him tested against that Italian side of 2006 - The best national team player since Maradona without question.

Him vs Pirlo trying to run the show would have been beautiful to watch.

How would he fit in with the modern game and how does he compare to guys like Bruno and KDB?

@Gio @harms @Enigma_87 @Invictus @Šjor Bepo @Fortitude
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No one said this
 
RooneyLegend said:
Technically brilliant but not a natural mover with the ball which is a fatal flaw for a playmaker. As Maradona said, what use is a player that can't shake off a man. Normally a player like that ends up being a midfielder but he couldn't cause he's never going to defend. He was doomed from the beginning.

He was never Zidane not even close. He wasn't even close to Rui Costa levels. Id even have Valeron long before id take him. Nowhere near as dynamic. Nowhere near the off the ball movement. He couldn't as some on here say 'attack the space' like Zizou. He was a stationary player who could manipulate the ball with great passing.
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I loved Valeron, class player to watch.
 
More like a south American Matt Le Tissier than Zinedine Zidane

That's not intended as a slight as I think le tissier was a great player and like riqilme one who if he had the workrate, physicality and ability to lead a time like Zidane certainly had the talent ... but that really is what separated Zidane from being an elegant technical player with flashes of genius ... he was instead consistently one of the best players in the world for several years... and in that context riquelme was more le tiss than Zidane for me.
 
Invictus said:
I like the idea of playing him in an upgraded version of Pellegrini's Yellow Submarines (4—2—2—2 + 4—4—2), so maybe something like this...

Suárez—Baggio
Iniesta—Cerezo—Tigana—Riquelme
Brehme—Godín—Ruggeri—Amoros
Dasayev​

  • Should have plenty to do as the team's principal tempo-setter/schemer from midfield.
  • Lots of dynamism in all segments of the pitch to mask his flaws.
  • Both Baggio and Iniesta would be fine in a slowburning build-up, and their slipperiness would be a complementary characteristic.
  • Neither of those two were strict about having the ball at all times and could play the consummate sous chef role, so Riquelme won't be starved of it.
  • In case he fails, Iniesta and Baggio have enough creative nous between them to guide the team.
  • As a bonus, it's also an asymmetric diamond, which approximates some of the Boca/Argentina teams he excelled in.
All of that being said, constructing a truly great collective around Riquelme seems to be a distinctly counter-intuitive endeavor as he would be better in a team where he is the top dog (as that is where he performed to the best of his abilities when you consider the totality of his rather enigmatic career).
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That side makes a lot of sense. I'm just not a fan of the 4222 style formations. Either they leave you to open defensively or your attacks can be narrow.
 
Was good but couldn’t really move and so never good enough for a top club. Not really a proper great IMO.
 
Wonder Pigeon said:
there's a certain romance with players even as recent as Riquelme that's a lot rarer to find these days. You look at how stats are the be all and end all, how dismissed players who don't end up at the superclubs are and how quickly you get consigned to the banter scrap heap today, and despite his obvious talent, if he had that same career arc in the modern game, too many people would never let him out of the shadow of having failed at Barcelona.

Back then it felt like him flopping at Barca added to how admirably brilliant he was at Villareal. Likewise him returning so early to South America helped make him a legend at Boca and added to his legacy, but I feel like today he'd just be dismissed as having failed in Europe.
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Everything you are predicting would have happened today is more or less exactly what happened with his reputation back when he actually played.
 
Cutch said:
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Riquelme, Cambiasso, Aimar, Mascherano, Tevez, Crespo, Zanetti, Samuel, Ayala...

England fans will lambast their golden generation for not winning anything, but how the feck did that Argentina side fail to win a single trophy?

It also shows that the 2006 England side, although extremely talented, faced some very tough opposition from other very talented national teams around that time.
 
the slowest best player in the history. He did everything right in a dreadful slow pace. It was like Zidane in slow motion
 
Infordin said:
Riquelme, Cambiasso, Aimar, Mascherano, Tevez, Crespo, Zanetti, Samuel, Ayala...

England fans will lambast their golden generation for not winning anything, but how the feck did that Argentina side fail to win a single trophy?

It also shows that the 2006 England side, although extremely talented, faced some very tough opposition from other very talented national teams around that time.
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They should have at least won something in the 2010s considering their youth teams won 3 WC titles in the 2000s (2001,2005 & 2007)
Seen a lot of people overate the current crop of England youngster cause they won cups at youth levels - look at Argentina as an example.
 
Eckers99 said:
The ultimate hipster footballer. Plenty of talent but wasn't good enough to justify building an elite side around and he didn't achieve much (outside of a few titles with Boca Juniors).
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I kind of agree for the majority of his career but the 2006 Argentina side was elite and built around him. Pekerman subbing him to hang on to a 1-0 lead vs Germany cost them their best shot at the World Cup in a long time.
 
4bars said:
the slowest best player in the history. He did everything right in a dreadful slow pace. It was like Zidane in slow motion
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A player of the same era who was similar to him was Valerón; an absolutely brilliant number 10 but incredibly slow. He was the key man in the great late ‘90s/early ‘00s era of Deportivo. Unfortunately for him, he was at his best when the furia roja era of Spain was still around so never became an important player for the national team.

GifLord said:
They should have at least won something in the 2010s considering their youth teams won 3 WC titles in the 2000s (2001,2005 & 2007)
Seen a lot of people overate the current crop of England youngster cause they won cups at youth levels - look at Argentina as an example.
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A lot of that was down to bad selections. In two consecutive World Cups, Zanetti was omitted from the squad with Scaloni and Jonás being selected as right back instead. Cambiasso was left out in 2010 despite being a key player for the European champions with Maradona playing an unbalanced midfielder that had Mascherano as the only proper CM. Saviola was left out in 2002 when he’d just scored 20+ goals for Barça and Batistuta was clearly past it. Even in 1998, Passarella left Redondo (again after just winning the CL) out of the squad because he refused to cut his hair short.

Pexbo said:
Would have been a flop in 00’s Premier League and a legend in 10’s Premier League.

Inb4 “too old in the 10’s”
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I don’t think so at all. Nobody was playing a slow, immobile number 10 in the 2010s. The Van Gaal idea of getting rid of the 10 altogether and playing him as a wide forward became mainstream about 15 years ago and is still the standard practice.

Özil isn’t considered a PL legend despite having elite numbers across several seasons. He’s always been considered too lazy even though he does 10 times the work Riquelme ever did.
 
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I think people tend to forget not only how good Zidane was with his feet, but also how brutally strong he was on the ball.

Riquelme was an artist, but he lacked Zidanes body strength and ability to keep possession. Zidane was a brute as much as he was an artist.
 
Infordin said:
Riquelme, Cambiasso, Aimar, Mascherano, Tevez, Crespo, Zanetti, Samuel, Ayala...

England fans will lambast their golden generation for not winning anything, but how the feck did that Argentina side fail to win a single trophy?

It also shows that the 2006 England side, although extremely talented, faced some very tough opposition from other very talented national teams around that time.
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Because every other country were strong too. You look at the players Holland,Brazil,France & Germany had in that era and then look at the kind of players with the exception of France are fielding now and it’s night and day.
 
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