Revival under Arteta....on hold
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Their next set of games: Newcastle(H), Southampton(A), United(H), Wolves(A), Villa(A), Leeds(H), City(H), Leicester(A). He will not survive this.
On paper, Newcastle is the only team they should beat. If they cannot get three points from that, it will be another nightmare run.
I don't think I am under selling Pep. Hes a top level coach, in fact, he might be the best coach in the world once he has elite players but outside of that, I believe his methods wouldn't work with a lower value team. His whole philosophy is dominating the ball and creating overloads to his best key players which really only is a good as those few individuals. If Pep was managing Arsenal now, do you think he would get them into the top 4? I think he would fall afoul of the same issues Arteta is facing.
When posession football works you are Barca Pep
When posession football doesn't work you are ManUnited Van Gaal
When posession football doesn't work you are ManUnited Van Gaal
To be fair, if this league, especially this season, was played on paper, results & league tables would be a lot different from what we are seeing.
I think what we see is if the first XI is available, we can be an ok team, not great by any means, but ok. However, if they aren't, then because of how disappointing players like Pepe & Willian have become, then we don't have the quality & depth in behind that.
I'm counting players like Smith-Rowe & Saka as first XI players now. However, as much as I rate them highly, they will still be inconsistent. But as a fan, I can accept that more than them not playing & sticking with guys like Willian & Pepe.
Given what I've said above, ideally we still need 1 more creative player this window if possible just to take the burden off Smith-Rowe & Saka, however that's going to be easier said than done. I have basically given up on Willian & Pepe if you couldn't tell.
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This is infuriating to watch. It's like our whole team has been programmed to do this regardless of whats happening behind them. The opposition defence and goalkeeper could be playing cards in the six yard box and we would still see the exact same instant passes back. The biggest culprits are Bellerin, Auba and Xhaka. As someone said earlier in the thread, we play like Man City without the cutting edge. It's pass pass pass pass but we don't have a KDB or David Silva to unlock those tight defences. What we do have though is Xhaka and Bellerin whose passing isn't even that good. The number of suicide passes they played yesterday was unreal. Granted there were good recoveries but Palace easily could have had atleast two counter attack goals. Wolves did the same thing to us earlier in the season but they had more quality to punish us.
He didn't struggle though, City dominated almost every game and were let down by a combination of outrageously poor finishing and a woeful keeper (although granted that was his fault for signing him).
I disagree, well it depends on how you define working, would he win an average team the title (which according to some he has to do to prove his greatness)? No, but i certainly believe he can implement his philosophy at lesser clubs, if the lesser version of him (Sarri) can do it at Empoli (not to mention Bielsa and Hassenhuttl currently successfully implementing complex philosophy's on average player's on these shores) why couldn't he do similar if he had to? I mean he won't because he doesn't have to but if that was how he needed to start in management i'm sure he could have got noticed similar to how those did/currently are.
I do agree that certain profile of player is required to make the style look aesthetically pleasing though and that's movement up front, that was the main reason Sarri's Napoli were a sensational watch while his Chelsea were boring, his Napoli front 3 all specialized in clever off the ball movement to strech defenses while out of our front players only Pedro and Higuain did and it weren't often both played together and often neither did (as Pedro had injury issues and Higs was a half season loan).
What I mean is that is silly trying to predict results in the future because results are all over the place this season.
All over the place may be for Arsenal. We are where we belong.
That's simply not true - just look at how they finished the league campaign, it wasn't that they were unlucky in a few games they were miles off the pace (25 points) and Pep even said he'd have been sacked at bayern/barca
You can make a case that his players weren't fully up to speed with his system, hence their inconsistencies but they did not dominate every game and it was certainly not simply a case of Bravo + bad finishing costing them that many points.
We are shit, & you got beat of us at home. I'd say that's all over the place.
True, you are defo better & more consistent than us, not denying that. But look at Spurs results, Chelsea's results, even teams like Villa & Leicester than can win a big game 1 week then get beat from the likes of West Ham & Brighton the next.
There's a resason why it's just 10 points separating 1st to 10th.
Arsenal are 11th.
I don't think you have been good. Yes you have won since the boxing day but let us be honest chelsea were awful, brighton decided to play without any striker and you were hardly great that day. Wba I will give you was the one game where you were actually good but then they are wba. Your fa cup game against Newcastle is another example of how you couldn't break them down and had carroll actually had his finishing boots on, it would have been bye bye for you guys. Same thing yesterday, palace deserved to score but were unfortunate. How many good chances did you even created yesterday to claim yeah we were unfortunate to not win.
I know this has been a wierd season and everything but unless you guys start miraculously playing well, you are not going to overtake any of the top 6 or 7 clubs. And if you end up the season on 8th or something like that then no matter how arsenal fans can mould it but it will be an awful season. Forget about results, I don't even think you guys are playing good football under arteta.
But the top 3 are the same as they ended last season so its not that strange. If Chelsea didnt have Frank Lampard you would see a very familiar top 4
I know this, I didn't mention us in the top 10?
Whoa, no-one is saying we've been good, or have been saying we are going to finish here or there. I've actually said we are shit. All I said on my initial reply was that you can't really look at a set of fixtures & confidently predict outcomes, as this season results are a bit all over the place. The fact that Ole, Lampard, Arteta, even Mourinho have all been under pressure at points this season & in contrast 3 of them at some point were also seen as title challengers suggests that.
Im not analysing our play or our form, that's another discussion.
I feel you guys should give him time and set a more conservative expectation this season because this league is really hard and almost every team has a good squad based in general. Just consider Fulham for example.
If I were Arsenal supporter, I probably will accept the goal to finish in Europa league position.
I too hope we give him time, & as I've explained in my earlier posts, the fact he seems to be looking slightly longer term & using youngsters like Smith-Rowe, Saka & Martinelli now when he is fit will hopefully buy him some grace from the supporters, as at least it shows some long term building instead of relying on guys like Willian.
That doesn't mean I'm expecting them to be the saviours & all will be rosey. We still need to buy smart to help support & bring these guys on, but at least in this window & the next there's a chance to do a proper 'squad reset', which could see 10+ players leaving.
BTW, I think it the biggest mistake to part away with Wenger. However, I understand it will eventually happen no matter what. It just could delay the earthquake in some sense.
That is not all over the place. That is football. You don't always win against the shit teams. That uncertainty what makes it interesting.
Agreed, give the Manager with a 41% win rate in the league more time. I like that concept.
If that was their goal then why even sack emery, even he could have had them finish 8th. Arteta will get this season but if arsenal finish below 6th then surely no point continuing with him. League should be the bread and butter and he so far has failed in it miserably.
So true.
I guess people tend to react too emotionally in difficult time and want to gamble and hope for the best. Until experiencing the reality of the world and enough more difficult time, they can start slowing down and be realistic. They are not the only one to go through it and will not the last one. Thinking Liverpool, Blackburn, Leeds, us, Arsenal...
Sorry for the late reply, unfortunately still limited to 5 posts a day until I get my likes up. I think it should have probably been done in 2014 after the FA Cup win to be honest. The team were in better shape then, the finances were a bit better then, we were still in the top 4. I think the last couple of years of Wenger & Gazidas some of the long term thinking went out the window & they gambled more with decisions trying to get instant results, knocking back £60M for Sanchez, being pressured into giving Ozil £350k a week, buying Auba the season after buying Lacazette etc.
Ok, your results aren't all over the place, but a lot of the rest of the leagues are a bit, so I can modify my original point & say its hard to predict the rest of the leagues results bar the 2 or 3 top teams if that makes you feel better.
Emery was sacked because he lost the dressing room, respect & became a figure of fun, as well as the results. I think the management thought at the time it was a management issue rather than a player issue, & its easier to change a manager than a squad of players.
I think it's been evident its not just that, that it's deeper than that, & these next 2 windows give us a good opportunity to do a squad reset, even if it takes going 1 step back hopefully it helps us in the long run, whoever the manager is.
To be fair with the state of the current arsenal team and the lack of quality, even on paper Arsenal could be as low as they are if not more! There’s not many teams you’d fancy the current Arsenal team to beat.
The 10 teams above Arsenal right now would probably still be above them if results were done on paper.
I don't for the life of me understand this kind of thinking. This strikes me as completely wrong. This Arsenal team is not a poor team. Honestly, it is a very expensive team full of top players, on paper.
It might be that some professional scouts would have told you in 2018 that Pépé wasn't quite worth 80m, but none would have predicted that he wouldn't be able to produce one great performance, and no assists or goals, over half a season.
Tierney, Partey, Xhaka, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Pépé, Gabriel, Willian as an experienced addition, Torreira earlier, Özil on superstar wages somewhere in purgatory: the fact is the investment has been that of a top club, not a mid table club. The club has invested massively over the last seasons.
Mid table is what the club has managed to get out of the investment, and surely the very first thing anyone would conclude is that the manager, hired with hope of a promise but no record whatsoever, turns out to be nowhere near up to the required standard.Just because players perform poorly doesn't mean they are poor players. Because guess what, as opposed to Arteta they actually have a record of top performances to justify their presence in the squad.
Tuchel, for example, would have that team up there contending for top 4 without a doubt.
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I agree you club woes are beyond the manager and when Wenger was your manager, I did create a thread here saying wenger leaving will not solve much. Having said that Arteta is massively underperforming with this squad. When the season ends if you guys end up at 8th or lower again then honestly serious questions have to be asked to Arteta. As a rival fan I hope he is never sacked but as a realist no way any half ambitious board will tolerate that. Yes you may not be as big as Manchester United but are a bigger club than spurs, Leicester etc.
Apart from the result, it is the style of football which should be a bigger worry. I said it here when you guys won the FA cup, this style of football is just not sustainable. What Arteta has successfully done is lower the standards of your club that losing 1-0 to city was considered a good result as you used to lose 3-0. Again football is a funny game and in 6 months time I may look like a fool but right now nothing suggests Arteta can implement a style which would be good to watch.
He finished 15 points behind the champions and 8 points behind Spurs that season. With the best squad. He still had KDB, Sterling, Aguero, Kompany. Only when he splurged hundreds of millions the following season did it start to work.
He is a great coach if he has the best players.
I'm willing to give him longer as I see the squad at a junction this summer, where there could be 10+ guys leaving & by the end of the summer, with the youngsters & whoever he adds, the squad & team should be shaping up to more how he wants it.
I can understand the view that he's not doing good enough, I really can. I'm maybe a bit more patient than most nowadays in that regard, & I accept that. I'm the type that thought Ole & now Lampard deserve more time. If by that time there's still not much progress, I'll judge him more harshly.
Silencing his doubters.
I laughed at this, then realised for all the flak he's only 10points off 1st. League is so tight this season. Given his realistic goal is probably top 8? At absolute best Europa? Actually could end up having a decent season if others like Soton & WHUM drop away.
Its not 10 though is it, we have a game in hand and City have 2