That’s horrendous. What a callous cnut
Cancel Culture
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
Obviously she's a deranged twat but I really don't know why he's flying off the handle about such an obviously vacuous threat.
GSK aren't going to give two hoots about some no mark columnist's massive overreaction to such an innocuous tweet. Assuming that offending tweet was all he posted about her of course.
GSK aren't going to give two hoots about some no mark columnist's massive overreaction to such an innocuous tweet. Assuming that offending tweet was all he posted about her of course.
He seems to be experiencing an external threat as far more dangerous than it really is. Almost as though he’s suffering from some form of anxiety disorder. Any clues to support this diagnosis in any of his tweets?
Is getting someone expelled from their union via tweets cancel culture? (IMO, clearly yes).
Do people here support it (I'm unsure, but on instinct I think it's bad)
Do people here support it (I'm unsure, but on instinct I think it's bad)
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Hard to call this 'cancel culture' when you've just runaround causing mayhem in the nations capitol like that but... kind of feels like this is massive turning point for the US. The entire media apparatus is silencing the sitting President of the United States.
That's a genie that's never going back into it's bottle.
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Hmmm. Interesting one. But not really cancel culture IMO. He broke the law. Doxxing people who break the law wouldn’t usually be called cancel culture.
I’ve always thought cancel was more about attempting to punish people for ideas/opinions/comments they express online that you disagree with, rather than identifying actual law-breakers and hoping they get punished for their crimes.
Probably a subtle difference though. And yes, this would be one of those situations where I don’t have any sympathy for the guy at the bottom of the pile-on.
It pisses me off to no end how "freedom of speech" has been twisted by the right to mean freedom to say what you want, whenever you want without repercussion.
Free speech is the freedom to criticise government without fear of being thrown into a gulag, that's its purpose in maintaining a democracy. It doesn't mean you can call people the N word on twitter or social media and not be castigated for it.
Misinformation is THE problem of our time, and is holding us back in virtually every area, It being censored is not a bad thing. lastly, these people being "cancelled" are not actually being silenced, they come out with book deals, get on chat shows and podcasts and in some ways financially benefit from it due to patreons and the like.
The bottom line is if you are expressing baseless, factually wrong opinions that cause demonstrable harm to society I feel no sympathy if that same society penalises you. We aren't talking about moderate people having a controversial opinion on something genuinely debatable, these are people who think the far left are an underground podophile cult who has rigged the election for the elite and Donald trump is the last bastion of western culture. feck them.
Free speech is the freedom to criticise government without fear of being thrown into a gulag, that's its purpose in maintaining a democracy. It doesn't mean you can call people the N word on twitter or social media and not be castigated for it.
Misinformation is THE problem of our time, and is holding us back in virtually every area, It being censored is not a bad thing. lastly, these people being "cancelled" are not actually being silenced, they come out with book deals, get on chat shows and podcasts and in some ways financially benefit from it due to patreons and the like.
The bottom line is if you are expressing baseless, factually wrong opinions that cause demonstrable harm to society I feel no sympathy if that same society penalises you. We aren't talking about moderate people having a controversial opinion on something genuinely debatable, these are people who think the far left are an underground podophile cult who has rigged the election for the elite and Donald trump is the last bastion of western culture. feck them.
He committed an actual crime. One that has seen other people who committed the same crime be detained by the FBI. If someone he knew in real life told his employers or union that he had committed that sort of crime they wouldn't be accused of "cancelling" the person, they would just be "the guy who told us we work with someone who recently took part in an insurrection against the government." They're not the assholes in that story.
To my mind "cancel culture", insofar as it actually means anything at all, means ostracising people who have done or said something people consider offensive but that isn't necessarily illegal, or seeking disproportionate punishment for a minor illegality because the act went against their political/social beliefs.
I don't see how you could possibly extend that to someone who was just described by the president as a domestic terrorist without making the notion utterly meaningless (if it isn't so already). Might as well accuse communities who rally against paedophiles or gangs of taking part in cancel culture too.
Probably a lot of BLM people broke curfews etc. I think tagging their source of income in tweets (which did happen in the BM case) is a bad thing. Now, of course, many people in this protest in DC wanted to break the law in a much more severe way, and the very basis of this protest was awful politics (unlike BLM).
Again, I'm not 100% convinced about this, but I feel employment should be as close to a red line as possible. There was a CEO here, ok, he is a public face of the company, but a random employee isn't. And in this particular case, the call was for the union to immediately remove them, rather than go through their formal procedures.
Citizens Against Tyranny movement, backed by Sen. Heard, seeks to expose people who make OSHA complaints
http://www.nrtoday.com/news/health/...cle_5c119e0f-c6b4-5039-8905-070f0aa212b3.html
http://www.nrtoday.com/news/health/...cle_5c119e0f-c6b4-5039-8905-070f0aa212b3.html
Actually, fair point. I think I’m with you on that. Due process is important and online cancellations always seem to want to cut straight to the punishment part.
The Twitter account of Red Scare - a major leftist podcast - has been suspended as part of the culls.
Also blocked from Facebook... kooky old Ron Paul - basically the Bernie of libertarianism - an 85 year old who's one of the calmest and most softly spoken men in politics...not somebody I agree with often, but a proper Werther's Original politican.
Anyone supporting this corporate takeover based on dislike of Orange Man, and enjoyment of Orange Man's demise, really isn't looking big picture.
In every coordinated ban wave so far they've thrown up a headline ban that everyone 'agrees' with - Alex Jones, Trump - while quietly banning leftists, moderate right-wing voices and some big accounts who's only crime was being critical of capitalism.
Look at the Reddit banwaves which always headline something like /r/CoonTown and end up taking out a dozen leftist subs - the biggest being Chapo, of course.
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Also blocked from Facebook... kooky old Ron Paul - basically the Bernie of libertarianism - an 85 year old who's one of the calmest and most softly spoken men in politics...not somebody I agree with often, but a proper Werther's Original politican.
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Anyone supporting this corporate takeover based on dislike of Orange Man, and enjoyment of Orange Man's demise, really isn't looking big picture.
In every coordinated ban wave so far they've thrown up a headline ban that everyone 'agrees' with - Alex Jones, Trump - while quietly banning leftists, moderate right-wing voices and some big accounts who's only crime was being critical of capitalism.
Look at the Reddit banwaves which always headline something like /r/CoonTown and end up taking out a dozen leftist subs - the biggest being Chapo, of course.
Since when did not being able to post on social media become a life-defining event? The world is a much better place if more of this happens.
Ok so there is something I find quite creepy about this mass purge. This bunch of nuts have contravened TOS and standards of decency for years but were quite unshiftable whilst these platforms were benefiting off the back of their activity. Now that there has been a political shift back to a more corpo-centrist administration - combined with an attack on the establishment, these platforms have started cracking heads.
I'm not a free speech absolutist but am discomforted by seeing communication now rest so firmly in the robo-hands of a tiny number of tech-authoritarians.
Disappointing to see the waves of uncritical glee from libs and centrists alike at a culling born not of moral principle but political and financial expediency.
Twitter, Apple, Google, Amazon are unethical to the core, dunking on Trump is not grounds for absolution.
I'm not a free speech absolutist but am discomforted by seeing communication now rest so firmly in the robo-hands of a tiny number of tech-authoritarians.
Disappointing to see the waves of uncritical glee from libs and centrists alike at a culling born not of moral principle but political and financial expediency.
Twitter, Apple, Google, Amazon are unethical to the core, dunking on Trump is not grounds for absolution.
It’s what you get when you have no regulations whatsoever and allow companies such as Twitter, FB, Uber, etc to write their own rules.
What else are we supposed to do during lockdown? But actually I agree, I think the world would be a better place without social media.
You're coming off as a tad out of touch here, Grinner - and I should know, I am quite of touch myself. Like it or not, social media is now a very big part of a public figure's life. At least it is if they want to remain a public figure.
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How is this even possible. Wtf was all those book about!?
Cafe mod agreeing on censorship with all powerful tech companies
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We should just cancel facebook and twitter. Cancel everyone
Surely this is just the inevitable consequence of pressure to sort their shit out that’s been building for years? All they needed was a tipping point.
When you see Qanon (a movement for which Facebook is almost entirely responsible) nutters literally invading Capitol Hill then you couldn’t ask for a more obvious straw to break the camel’s back. They could have got their house in order sooner, sure, but it’s really not difficult to find reasons for their recent actions without putting it all on the Dems winning the Senate (that’s the only significant recent political shift I can think of).
Basically you can’t blame centrists for everything.
EDIT: Although it does seem they’ve lost the run of themselves a bit. Over compensation in action.
They fear CAF cancellation from their tech overlords.Cafe mod agreeing on censorship with all powerful tech companies
It's all starting to make sense
We're not talking about many public figures though. Parler users are mostly ignorant twats looking to spread their ignorance.
I'm not sure yet how comfortable I am with the likes of Amazon, Google, FB and Twitter holding so much power.
On the other hand, don't be an asshole and you're unlikely to get banned, right?
On the other hand, don't be an asshole and you're unlikely to get banned, right?
Thats just not how this is going to work. You know this
Not sure how one can’t feel okay about someone involved in a felony receiving consequences from their actions. I would feel the same if the ideological roles were reversed.
Actions having consequences doesn’t always equate to cancel culture run amok.
E - I see you further elaborated on this particular situation. In no way should the internal due process of a termination be aborted due to the perceived severity of the infraction, but the process should certainly take place, CEO or minion within the company. Each have a responsibility to reflect positively on the company & not be a negative on it going forward.
I think I’ve changed my mind on deplatforming. I usually think the best way to challenge bad ideas is to let them speak and be challenged in public. However this pandemic has such an obvious link between bad ideas and bad outcomes it’s making me rethink this.
To me, this sort of call for deplatforming/cancelling is justified. Spreading lies which kill people. And they’re doing it by blinding people with science that is difficult to understand and very plausible to non-experts. Because I’m familiar with the science being discussed I can work out when they’re obviously bullshitting so have no problem with obvious charlatans like Prof Gupta being denied the chance to cause harm.
But that got me thinking about all the other charlatans spreading harmful ideas, cloaked in pseudo-science. To be consistent, I should also support them being denied a platform. I’m not sure why this didn’t occur to me before. Probably because I’m less clued in on social sciences, so basically much more gullible? Anyhoo. Deplatforming. I’m a convert.
To me, this sort of call for deplatforming/cancelling is justified. Spreading lies which kill people. And they’re doing it by blinding people with science that is difficult to understand and very plausible to non-experts. Because I’m familiar with the science being discussed I can work out when they’re obviously bullshitting so have no problem with obvious charlatans like Prof Gupta being denied the chance to cause harm.
But that got me thinking about all the other charlatans spreading harmful ideas, cloaked in pseudo-science. To be consistent, I should also support them being denied a platform. I’m not sure why this didn’t occur to me before. Probably because I’m less clued in on social sciences, so basically much more gullible? Anyhoo. Deplatforming. I’m a convert.
I’m I don’t think I’m there yet in terms of deplatforming (that’s new terminology for me).
one of the biggest issues are the algorithm’s used. So that if you express a view, or search for “I’m not getting a vaccination because there is pork in the vaccine”, I’d that you get get flooded with people/ ideas/ posts that are all very similar.
facebook in particular puts everyone in their own echo chamber.
some people do clearly want this, and want to converse with the similarly loopy. But it’s the people who perhaps have a moderately squeezed view of the world, who get ever more drawn into it - and they never see the other side of the argument. That’s worrying.
Can we cancel the CCP then please? Who in turn wants to cancel anyone who is critical of the regime.
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I agree that in the case of coronavirus we are in a special situation where false information costs lives, but in life in general on other topics, I dont want a select group to essentially police what is acceptable thought, speech and discussion. For instance I don't want well informed and well meaning whistleblowers "cancelled". Such as this guy or Edward Snowden.
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Well I'll be damned...
Never too old to learn and change, afro
Tbf I haven't picked a side on this one. I believe in free speech but not unequivocally.Never too old to learn and change, afro
Now to convince you that PC has not actually gone mad...
baby steps...It's a blunt instrument but I suspect it works quite well in a lot of cases, so should probably be considered as at least part of the solution.
On the plus side it definitely seems to have an impact on individuals (e.g. Milo whatshisname being hit financially) and reduces the growth of communities/content, at least in the short/medium term. On the negative side at least some of that community/content migrates elsewhere and becomes more hardened.
In some situations (and both Covid and vaccinations are probably among them) reducing the spread of the stupidity is probably worth allowing small pockets to become more hardened in their beliefs. That might not be the case in other situations though, where you think there's a natural limit on how widely a belief is likely to be adopted anyway and you're instead trying to address a small pocket of believers.
Good point.
I remember Julia Hartley Brewer being "cancelled" from attending the royal college of GP conference as a speaker/host due to her comments on agreeing with Enoch Powell's "predictions". I find her views and politics pretty vile.
Incidentally I don't think we should immediately jump to the deplatforming or cancelling even in the context of lockdown skeptics. I think there's a lot at stake, science is complicated. Getting ideas across of epidemiology is difficult. But I've seen this pandemic as largely a missed opportunity in terms of promoting scientific literacy.
Not that I'm saying that we shouldn't deplatform people like JHB who've said things like covid swabs have 90% false positive but rightly so their misinformation should be in the first instance be challenged and explained to. Largely a lot of what people like her and Toby Young have said has been challenged in arguments that have been articulate, patient by scientists and doctors on medtwitter. So no sympathy for calls for them to be cancelled now.
Also weirdly I think a lot of lack of pushback now is strict GMC guidelines on how medics use social media, and also the fact that there is right wing backlash to anybody who suggests deplatforming of charlatans or grifters by the likes of Guido Fawkes, Spiked etc and even the Mail which results in death threats etc
I know one of the medics on the panorma show regarding the PPE debacle and the abuse that resulted from articles like these horrified me
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...interviewed-five-medics-Labour-links-PPE.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...d-ppe-broadcast-shows-much-need-transparency/
https://order-order.com/2020/04/28/panoramas-ppe-investigation-party-political-broadcast/
It’s not just Twatter where that happens, exactly the same happens on here.