Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Forevergiggs1 said:
Ok, fair points on the arsenal players. Elneny is one of those players that make you think, how is he a PL player?

While Cavani should of scored at least 1 there's very small margins where the manager is concerned and personally I think he got some big calls wrong.

It was obvious McT was suffering badly and should of been off before he practically substituted himself by collapsing to the ground. If he had obvious symptoms before the game why was he played?

Bringing on Martial and moving Pogba to the middle was another obvious mistake. Pogba was playing well before being moved and it showed in the second half. I know it's easy for armchair supporters to criticise but why move a player from a position he favours and is at his most effective to one where he struggles when we could of left him there and brought on Matic or VDB?

Arsenal were targeting AWB who I thought had a very good game but Rashford wasn't helping him out which should have been rectified by the manager.

I love Bruno as a player but yesterday he was lucky to stay on the pitch and should of been taken off around the hour mark. The same as Rashford who was probably having one of his worst games in a United shirt. Ole has a bad habit of bringing on players in the last 10 minutes if we're trying to get something out of the game which doesn't give the incoming player much time to adjust to the pace of the game.

The last minutes of the game it looked like we were happy with the draw the way we were playing around with the ball at the back. This probably irked me more than anything. 1 point away to Arsenal on paper isn't a bad result but they were there for the taking and this attitude of rather not losing than going for the win belongs in midtable clubs. It's small time mentality.
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Those decision on McTominay to Ole decided to change the tactic to be more open by bring in another goal scorer like Martial. How are those calls wrong, how those decision could make difference to win the game in that match? That’s what I want to know. Don’t just randomly say, they are wrong without telling me if we do this instead we would win the match.

And speaking about Rashford & Bruno, after making bold statement on Saka and Tierney in your case, Rashford and Bruno have been our best players this season based on performance and both are our top scorers, you lot told me to imagine what happens if United don’t have two of their best players today and now using it as excuses for Ole’s decision to have faith in his two best player. I think it’s valid reason to have faith in your two top scorers.

One of the Cavani‘s chance was in the last 5 minute of the game. So we tried to win actually if anything arsenal didn’t create anything in the last 10 minutes.
 
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People call Ole defensive, if he was defensive he wouldn't have brought martial on when Mctominay got injured. He could gave easily gone for a safer option by bringing in Matic. What I have complain is lack of urgency. That was worrying.
 
Tbf, we are much better to watch than under Jose, that's not even debatable. I don't really think Ole has done much wrong lately, it's our forwards who are all woefully out of form at the same time. Plenty of investment is still needed, unfortunately. I still have reservations about him ,but right now, our forwards are having a mare.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Tell me what has he done wrong in tactic today? Don’t just blindly put some blame, because this is what you lot are doing.
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Call it tactics or coaching, but our play largely revolves around luck or individual moments. He's never got our team playing football that puts the opposition under a lot of pressure, which is what we need when teams sit back. We're a "moments" team with little structure to our play.
 
AshRK said:
People call Ole defensive, if he was defensive he wouldn't have brought martial on when Mctominay got injured. He could gave easily gone for a safer option by bringing in Matic. What I have complain is lack of urgency. That was worrying.
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Why did he start McTominay then? Why did he have Pogba playing on the left? It wasn't an attacking lineup. He changed because he had to, everyone could see it wasn't working and their threat was minimal.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Those decision on McTominay to Ole decided to change the tactic to be more open by bring in another goal scorer like Martial. How are those calls wrong, how those decision could make difference to win the game in that match? That’s what I want to know. Don’t just randomly say, they are wrong without telling me if we do this instead we would win the match.

And speaking about Rashford & Bruno, after making bold statement on Saka and Tierney in your case, Rashford and Bruno have been our best players this season based on performance and both are our top scorers, you lot told me to imagine what happens if United don’t have two of their best players today and now using it as excuses for Ole’s decision to have faith in his two best player. I think it’s valid reason to have faith in your two top scorers.

One of the Cavani‘s chance was in the last 5 minute of the game. So we tried to win actually if anything arsenal didn’t create anything in the last 10 minutes.
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No one knows if making substitute decisions will win or lose us games obviously but by bringing on Martial who has been by far our most under preforming starting 11 player and moving Pogba from his best position doesn't strike me as a great tactical decision. Pogba has been winning us points playing from there so why move him to accommodate Martial? Do you think it was an effective decision when we had a straight swap for McT in Matic or VDB leaving Pogba to do what he does best? Pogba was very good in the first half but wasn't as effective in second. Why was that?


I hardly made a bold statement saying Saka and Tierney are 2 of Arsenal's most influencial players. I think it's pretty obvious. Bruno and Rashford as you say have definitely been our 2 best players this season but yesterday it wasn't clicking for them just like it hasn't for the last 3 or 4 PL matches. Bruno yesterday was seeing the red mist and was lucky he wasn't red carded and in general was very ineffective and Rashford was having another terrible game. Should they be untouchable? Or should Ole have tried something else instead of trying to beat the same old tired donkey?
 
pocco said:
Why did he start McTominay then? Why did he have Pogba playing on the left? It wasn't an attacking lineup. He changed because he had to, everyone could see it wasn't working and their threat was minimal.
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We were more than comfortable tbf till McT was on the pitch. Any manager would start a big game in a pragmatic manner. He saw that Arsenal were there for the taking, and so made the attacking change.
 
Ole is what he is, he is a worth in progress. For me, Utd should always have a number of players that are potentially are in the top 3 of the PL in that position. I think that should be the manager too. It's not a science that the best teams tend to have the best of either. If our best players were but up for sale, there would be some of the biggest teams wanting to buy. If Ole gets sacked, he would struggle to get a championship job. Speaks volumes....
 
anant said:
We were more than comfortable tbf till McT was on the pitch. Any manager would start a big game in a pragmatic manner. He saw that Arsenal were there for the taking, and so made the attacking change.
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Big game? Arsenal are mid table. Besides, a lot of managers of top teams try to impose their style on the opposition and play their best 11, not the most defensive midfield pairing.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
No, they shouldn't.

But as others have suggested, this really isn't a question of fans being fickle. It's more a question of certain very vocal fans showing up every time we drop points in order to say "I told you so" in more or less subtle ways.

They don't change their minds from game to game - they're very firmly established in their "camp". They tend to stay away from the major Ole related threads after good performances/results - which is to be expected.
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Seems true and very strange at the same time. Has to be a large group of oppo fans, and how do they fit all under a rock?
 
I can understand that he wants to rotate players in order to keep them fresh at the moment, however certain players have played far too much earlier in the season and it's telling on them physically. Really he needs to put people in their best positions so that they can build up an understanding with each other rather than this constant chopping and changing
 
pocco said:
Big game? Arsenal are mid table. Besides, a lot of managers of top teams try to impose their style on the opposition and play their best 11, not the most defensive midfield pairing.
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It'd be stupid to go to Arsenal, irrespective of their form, and go-gung ho. Hell, if you're going by this season, they're the 2nd most inform team going purely by results.

As far as other teams who impose their style is concerned, City have learned from that and you could see that they played with 2 defensive mids vs us 3 days after we shipped 3 goals in Leipzig.
 
I appreciate the work Ole has done up to now, and I've certainly enjoyed a significant amount of our football during his tenure far more than any post Fergie era. However, his insistence on playing Bruno as a #10/striker is baffling and the main reason I'm losing faith in his ability every passing game. I love Bruno but he doesn't have the quality of #10 or striker to build a entire system around. Even more baffling is that the guy has quality to become a very effective high-energy midfielder if he was to rein in some of his erratic tendencies.

I fail to see how a actual midfield 3 of say, Bruno, Fred and Pogba( VdB) is worse than ceding the midfield battle all together by playing a midfield two of Fred and McT to instead play a reactive counter attacking game. To make it worse, your Bruno playing as striker is not suited to a counter attacking system since his hold up play isn't good and he loses possession for fun. I hope I'm wrong and this is just a transition to a more sensible system, but the current one based around Bruno certainly won't lead to any dominance whatsoever.
 
OldTrevil said:
I appreciate the work Ole has done up to now, and I've certainly enjoyed a significant amount of our football during his tenure far more than any post Fergie era. However, his insistence on playing Bruno as a #10/striker is baffling and the main reason I'm losing faith in his ability every passing game. I love Bruno but he doesn't have the quality of #10 or striker to build a entire system around. Even more baffling is that the guy has quality to become a very effective high-energy midfielder if he was to rein in some of his erratic tendencies.

I fail to see how a actual midfield 3 of say, Bruno, Fred and Pogba( VdB) is worse than ceding the midfield battle all together by playing a midfield two of Fred and McT to instead play a reactive counter attacking game. To make it worse, your Bruno playing as striker is not suited to a counter attacking system since his hold up play isn't good and he loses possession for fun. I hope I'm wrong and this is just a transition to a more sensible system, but the current one based around Bruno certainly won't lead to any dominance whatsoever.
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Spot on, Bruno should play right mid or cm
 
AshRK said:
People call Ole defensive, if he was defensive he wouldn't have brought martial on when Mctominay got injured. He could gave easily gone for a safer option by bringing in Matic. What I have complain is lack of urgency. That was worrying.
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He starts the game with Fred and Mct sat in front of the defence with Pogba on the left against an Arsenal side missing their most dangerous players, that is a no risk defensive manager.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Do you ever post about anything non-Ole related? You're absolutely relentless.
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Does anyone? How many pages since last night? Think I have made 4 posts or something like that. How many have you? Does people actually know Mc Tomney is a box to box? Do they realise we need energy in the midfield and it is what we got? Does people realise we haven’t signed a first team player in a year? The relentless posts on us being a counter attack side. Did people notice we had 62% possession? Good thing the mighty Klopp do not rely on individual brilliance and counter attacks. People seem quick to draw the knives out. You don’t think it’s a little odd?
 
FatherWolff said:
Does anyone? How many pages since last night? Think I have made 4 posts or something like that. How many have you? Does people actually know Mc Tomney is a box to box? Do they realise we need energy in the midfield and it is what we got? Does people realise we haven’t signed a first team player in a year? The relentless posts on us being a counter attack side. Did people notice we had 62% possession? Good thing the mighty Klopp do not rely on individual brilliance and counter attacks. People seem quick to draw the knives out. You don’t think it’s a little odd?
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I don't really post about Ole that much tbh. I posted saying he's doing an ok job, nothing more to say. You always seem riled up about any sign of criticism towards him; I find that loyalty as odd as the ones who can't stop wih the criticism. You almost seem to take it personally. Chill.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I don't really post about Ole that much tbh. I posted saying he's doing an ok job, nothing more to say. You always seem riled up about any sign of criticism towards him, I find that loyalty as odd as the ones who can't stop witj the criticism. You almost seem to take it personally. Chill.
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I do when the knives are out and for no good reason! Just read through here and the “I apologise Ole” thread. It is not criticism. It is embarrassing our self as a fan base..Although I don’t believe the most notorious ones and reactionary is Man Utd fans anymore.
 
FatherWolff said:
I do when the knives are out and for no good reason! Just read through here and the “I apologise Ole” thread. It is not criticism. It is embarrassing our self as a fan base..
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See what I mean, you need to stop taking it so personally. You lack any semblance of objectivity.
 
Xaviboy said:
If he doesn't win anything this season does he stay in the job?
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Yes, it’s not as simple as winning something, especially when that has so many variables.

If we continue to improve, and show signs of being in the mix, and the players play for him, he deserves another season and another transfer window to get the next pieces of the puzzleZ
 
Robbie Boy said:
Tbf, we are much better to watch than under Jose, that's not even debatable.
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But this isn't hardly a conciliation that can merit Ole. Most of the league's top 10 sides play a better brand of football than Jose. One thing that is becoming more obvious is that the media and genuine public are getting on to the way we play. Not entirely critiquing what we do but as Neville said it's not sustainable. If in two years time we are playing in the same manner as we are presently (no identity, lethargic movement, no build up play, etc) then we will regress because those around us with more astute coaches will begin to find their feet.

Ole has done a decent job he's not done a good job because he's not won anything but in order for us to assess the criteria of what he's bringing to the club he needs to define what this team is. The only way to build consistency is to array yourself a direction. What direction is the team going in ? We cannot rely on individuals forever that's not a team dynamic.
 
FatherWolff said:
Feel free to think so. I don’t take much in life personally and can handle most defeats without much fuzz ;)
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Maybe you do and that's good to hear. But when it comes to your Ole related posts, you come across overly defensive. Not everyone has to agree that he's doing an awesome job, I mean that seems normal. I guess some just take glee being part of a 'side' when it comes to Ole.
 
Withnail said:
Yeah I think so. If he finishes top 4 I don't think he gets fired. There doesn't seem to be any appetite at all at the club to pull the trigger.
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His contract expires in March of 2022, so if they don't extend him before the end of the season, they have to let him go and find a new manager.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
What about every opportunity that Rashford had? In fact one of them he had point blank to shoot toward the goal but chose to playing around in the box so not just two proper chances, we had plenty. These performance down to players not manager, if you are going to blame manager talk more tactically and answer the question, what has he done wrong tactically in that game?
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The manager’s job extends beyond tactics
 
passing-wind said:
But this isn't hardly a conciliation that can merit Ole. Most of the league's top 10 sides play a better brand of football than Jose. One thing that is becoming more obvious is that the media and genuine public are getting on to the way we play. Not entirely critiquing what we do but as Neville said it's not sustainable. If in two years time we are playing in the same manner as we are presently (no identity, lethargic movement, no build up play, etc) then we will regress because those around us with more astute coaches will begin to find their feet.

Ole has done a decent job he's not done a good job because he's not won anything but in order for us to assess the criteria of what he's bringing to the club he needs to define what this team is. The only way to build consistency is to array yourself a direction. What direction is the team going in ? We cannot rely on individuals forever that's not a team dynamic.
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I was merely pointing out we play better football than at any stage under Jose as it was being discussed. He's done some good work, but overall, it's a matter of opinion whether someone thinks he's done a 'good' job or not. Some seem to think he's doing an awesome job and some seem to think he's doing a terrible job. Both opinions are hyperbolic.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Maybe you do and that's good to hear. But when it comes to your Ole related posts, you come across overly defensive. Not everyone has to agree that he's doing an awesome job, I mean that seems normal. I guess some just take glee being part of a 'side' when it comes to Ole.
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Not at all. I think of it as counterpart to the few and loud. The knives where out in the beginning of December, and I posted “calm down”, and let’s see where we are in January. We where on top of the league. I didn’t expect that. Now let’s see where we are in may.. No need to get any knives out now, but some how they are back in force. No one is happy about the results in our two last games, but people really need to calm down. We benefit much more from positive energy! Even Poch has lost this weekend, so it happens.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
His contract expires in March of 2022, so if they don't extend him before the end of the season, they have to let him go and find a new manager.
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Well that's a different thing entirely. It's seems strange though.

Is it usual to have a managers contract set to expire in the middle of a season?

Edit: I see online his contract actually expires at the end of the season 2022 which makes more sense.

They gave him the contract in March and said it was three years but its not three years exactly, it runs until June 2022.
 
OldTrevil said:
I appreciate the work Ole has done up to now, and I've certainly enjoyed a significant amount of our football during his tenure far more than any post Fergie era. However, his insistence on playing Bruno as a #10/striker is baffling and the main reason I'm losing faith in his ability every passing game. I love Bruno but he doesn't have the quality of #10 or striker to build a entire system around. Even more baffling is that the guy has quality to become a very effective high-energy midfielder if he was to rein in some of his erratic tendencies.

I fail to see how a actual midfield 3 of say, Bruno, Fred and Pogba( VdB) is worse than ceding the midfield battle all together by playing a midfield two of Fred and McT to instead play a reactive counter attacking game. To make it worse, your Bruno playing as striker is not suited to a counter attacking system since his hold up play isn't good and he loses possession for fun. I hope I'm wrong and this is just a transition to a more sensible system, but the current one based around Bruno certainly won't lead to any dominance whatsoever.
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The problem with that is that Bruno works his socks off in that #10 role, so he is the trigger for the press. It's hard to imagine anyone else doing that. He's also dangerous from outside the box so teams have more to think about. Pre-Bruno I think we were honestly far too easy to play against.
 
FatherWolff said:
Not at all. I think of it as counterpart to the few and loud. The knives where out in the beginning of December, and I posted “calm down”, and let’s see where we are in January. We where on top of the league. I didn’t expect that. Now let’s see where we are in may.. No need to get any knives out now, but some how they are back in force. No one is happy about the results in our two last games, but people really need to calm down. We benefit much more from positive energy! Even Poch has lost this weekend, so it happens.
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Meh, couldn't really care less about Poch. He wouldn't have been near the top of my list to replace Ole. I think sometimes there's certain posters who misconstrue the "knives being out" with criticism. At the end of the day, there's been some ridiculous OTT praise at times too, so the hyperbole and dramatics work both ways. I haven't felt the need to criticise him after the last two games, but I can see why some have and I have no problem with it.

My expectations at the start of the season under Ole was a comfortable top four finish and a good cup run. Crashing out of the CL - considering the position we were in - was fairly shambolic. It's not worth annihilating him over but nor should it be conveniently swept under the rug and excused. We were never going to win the league and reality was always going to set in. Now we have to make sure we don't fall into a slump as the league is tight and unforgiving this season. I have reservations about him and I think we can do better but right now, he's fine. I can acknowledge the good he's done but I also won't pretend he hasn't shown limitations so far.
 
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I don't really enjoy seeing Rashford pushed right and then having Pogba on the left. Pogba has been on some good form for a while now, and he can perform very capably in the middle with Fred. Rashford is our biggest attacking threat when he's left and it feels blunt seeing it how it is right now.
 
Withnail said:
Well that's a different thing entirely. It's seems strange though.

Is it usual to have a managers contract set to expire in the middle of a season?

Edit: I see online his contract actually expires at the end of the season 2022 which makes more sense.

They gave him the contract in March and said it was three years but its not three years exactly, it runs until June 2022.
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Its usually common practice to not let a manager coach out the last year of his deal as he becomes a lame duck and loses his authority over the squad. Why would a player with a 5 year deal listen to Ole if the club doesn't show their support to him? So its either extend or find a new manager next season.
 
Unless you believed we were in a title race it wasn't that bad a point for us this weekend. Leicester and Spurs losing to Leeds and Brighton again showing how competitive the league is.
 
Bastian said:
The problem with that is that Bruno works his socks off in that #10 role, so he is the trigger for the press. It's hard to imagine anyone else doing that. He's also dangerous from outside the box so teams have more to think about. Pre-Bruno I think we were honestly far too easy to play against.
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Our issue was never the lack of a trigger for the press. In fact our press was absolutely fine before Bruno's arrival. Our main problem was the inability to control games and the subsequent over-reliance on a reactive counter attacking style, and that has not been solved. Him playing in midfield would actually give us a chance to win the midfield battle and control matches. We were easy to play against pre Bruno because double or triple teaming Pogba and cutting off supply to Martial and Rashford was enought to nullify our entire attack, not because we couldn't press.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
It was obvious McT was suffering badly and should of been off before he practically substituted himself by collapsing to the ground. If he had obvious symptoms before the game why was he played?

Bringing on Martial and moving Pogba to the middle was another obvious mistake. Pogba was playing well before being moved and it showed in the second half. I know it's easy for armchair supporters to criticise but why move a player from a position he favours and is at his most effective to one where he struggles when we could of left him there and brought on Matic or VDB?
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Agree to a certain extent.. It was nice to see Ole play Pogba higher on the pitch. Meaning he wanted us to play with higher ambitions offensively. It was a positive sign from Ole.

Something went wrong when McT went of and Pogba was moved further back on the pitch. He brought us something I’ve missed in our offensive play - more power in the space between McFeed and our attackers. Bruno can’t solve that alone.

It’s easy to criticise how Ole responded in retrospect, but it was a very tricky situation when McT had to stop. Understandable that Ole didn’t want to experiment adhoc against a team like Arsenal. He emphasised defensive stability and at the same time not reduce the number of match winners on the pitch. It was a good thought in theory, but I suppose he would have made another choice today.

Today I had chosen VDB. It would have been a very interesting setup, especially considering how the game developed. On the other side, replacing McT with VDB could possibly have resulted in to much offensive firepower on the pitch; more defensive instability or risk.
 
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