DDG - it needs to be said

[TMDaines]

Henderson is the solution. He is the goalkeeper of this club for the next 15-20 years. He might not have had a brilliant start but he’s still made many excellent saves and dropped only one clanger. The logic here of ‘he can’t be any worse’ is an apt one. De Gea seemingly forgot how to be a top keeper after that Spurs game in 2019. That’s two years of average performances and almost fortnightly errors.

Meanwhile, Deano was the best keeper in the league at Sheff Utd last year. He clearly has the reflexes, agility and handling, probably better than DDG at this point, and he’s not a complete coward unlike De Gea. We’d have won 3-1 if he was in goal. He wouldn’t have made the first error as these days he’s better than De Gea anyway, and for the last, he sends DCL into outer space along with the ball, like he did against loads of top strikers at Sheffield.

So what happens if he fails? Well, in that worst case scenario, we just sell him to an Everton or Newcastle. In the best case scenario, he fulfils his boundless potential and becomes our Casillas/Buffon/Neuer. I’d argue the best case scenario is far more plausible.

As for De Gea, he will have to rot on the bench if he doesn’t want to take a pay cut and leave. Two years of bad performances cannot be tolerated at any serious big club, because without a good goalkeeper, we’ll never win anything.

At the very least, Henderson’s performances over the last two years have merited him a proper opportunity. Chelsea were after him in the summer for a reason.

It makes no sense to treat Romero the way we did if we have no faith in Henderson to have a long-term future at the club.

The one problem that the manager is at fault for is that he has been too loyal and supportive to a couple of key players, such as De Gea and Maguire, that now leaving them out of the side would be polemical. The FA Cup match next is a great opportunity to do so.

 

[hubbuh]

I know we were nervous about losing what was probably our only 'world-class' player at the time, but my God we once again find ourselves utterly fecked as a result of giving a player an exorbitant contract. It's completely mental.

 

[Judge Red]

Every dog has its day and that’s the case with DDG. He still rolls back the years now and then but this isn’t a bad run of form. Bad runs of form don’t last over multiple seasons. All the points he won us in the past must be getting close to being evened out by now.

 

[Judas]

I know we were nervous about losing what was probably our only 'world-class' player at the time, but my God we once again find ourselves utterly fecked as a result of giving a player an exorbitant contract. It's completely mental.

Sadly he caught us when we were desperate and low as a club. Completely taken us to the cleaners and now we're in a very sticky expensive situation. Such a shame because he was very good for us, but now he's just not what we need, or what you want from a keeper in the modern game.

 

[Devil81]

Not one of world footballs top keepers anymore and if you want to compete at the top level you need a top keeper.

Whether Henderson is the answer or not I think its now time to drop De Gea and give him a run. Last night just further proved DDG is just going to continuely let us down over and over again and especially in big football matches where his bottle goes even more.

We've made a mistake with the contract, we aren't the first or the last club to do that but that shouldn't influence his place on the field. He needs taking out of the team, we need to try and sell him in the summer and then in the winter if they fail to find a club by then.

Until then he will just have to accept he's number 2, all this you can't have a 300k sub keeper talk is bolloxs, if he's not good enough and he's been given the contract it's the clubs fault.

 

[hubbuh]

Sadly he caught us when we were desperate and low as a club. Completely taken us to the cleaners and now we're in a very sticky expensive situation. Such a shame because he was very good for us, but now he's just not what we need, or what you want from a keeper in the modern game.

The bizarre thing is when we gave him this monster contract there wasn't really anyone in for him, or needing a GK. Those big-money deals tend to be done to ward off competition, but there wasn't any at the time. We have this unusual tactic of giving players big contracts unnecessarily and it generally always bites us on the arse. It feels like the penny won't ever drop with this club.

 

[Oldyella]

De Gea's edgy nervous and gutless approach doesn't make our CBs better, there's a very strong possibility he makes them worse.

It must be a fecking nightmare being a CB playing in front of a goalkeeper who barely leaves his 6 yard box. Just invites pressure. Teams know crosses dropped between the 6 yard box and the goal line have a good chance of being attacked.

 

[bsCallout]

The bizarre thing is when we gave him this monster contract there wasn't really anyone in for him, or needing a GK. Those big-money deals tend to be done to ward off competition, but there wasn't any at the time. We have this unusual tactic of giving players big contracts unnecessarily and it generally always bites us on the arse. It feels like the penny won't ever drop with this club.

We seem to reward players for what they've done, not what they will do.

 

[Judas]

The bizarre thing is when we gave him this monster contract there wasn't really anyone in for him, or needing a GK. Those big-money deals tend to be done to ward off competition, but there wasn't any at the time. We have this unusual tactic of giving players big contracts unnecessarily and it generally always bites us on the arse. It feels like the penny won't ever drop with this club.

Yep PSG at a push maybe, but I don't remember any serious links to him going anywhere else.

I think even at the time of the the renewal I was questioning it. He's just got so many flaws to his game, flaws that he's never really worked on. When you the world class saves go away, you're left with a very average keeper.

 

[bsCallout]

It must be a fecking nightmare being a CB playing in front of a goalkeeper who barely leaves his 6 yard box. Just invites pressure. Teams know crosses dropped between the 6 yard box and the goal line have a good chance of being attacked.

Exactly. That is why Liverpool and City can play a high line too, the GK is the sweeper and will get rid of balls over the top too. Our GK exposes our already average CB's but a dominant keeper might have them actually playing better than they are individually.

 

[rollingstoned1]

As someone who have witnessed our keeper situation post Peter Schmeichel, I know very well, if you want to compete for major trophy, you need top class or world class keeper. In fact, Chelsea won it with Courtois recently, City won it with Ederson recently & Liverpool won it with Allisson recently. It's just fact. Good PL keeper alone is not enough, you need top or world class keeper and DDG is no longer the same in those three keepers category on a current level.

I think it's fair for us (myself included) to have repaid him (after what he done for us) by putting our faith in him last season and this season but we cannot longer go the 4th season with his mistakes. I will respect or accept Ole's decision if we end up keep playing him for the rest of this season but next season we need to sign top class keeper.

This is also why im skeptical of Henderson being good enough. Keepers without x factor at united tend to be gambles even if they're good. I have seen all.of Howard, Foster, Carroll, Barthez, Taibi, Lindegaard be crushed by the pressure of being our first choice.

 

[bsCallout]

If we don't start playing Henderson to see if he'll be our No1 we could struggle next season if we find out he isn't good enough either.

 

[Lentwood]

So in response to some posters yesterday, I have provided some statistics for 'expected goals against', which of course DOES attempt to take into account the quality of shot a goalkeeper faces.

Now the problem with this is that it doesn't factor into account goals that were caused by problems of the goalkeepers own making. For example, 99% of people believe De Gea was at fault for Everton's first goal yesterday. However, the 'expected save' metric for that shot would be very low...because the mistake was palming a tame cross straight to Doucoure. Doucoure's shot, which was an open goal from a yard out, would have had a very high xG percentage.

Likewise, it wouldn't factor in mistakes like De Gea's cowardice at corners/free-kicks leading to goals against or goals like Everton's 3rd yesterday, where he bottles a challenge, because again, once DCL actually gets on the end of that chance, his xG will be very high from that position.

Anyway....I've explained why it's flawed but people asked for it and it still looks horrible for De Gea

GOALKEEPER	TEAM	GA	PSxG	PSxG +/-
Nick Pope	Burnley	24	29.4	6.4
Alphonse Areola	Fulham	28	33.3	5.3
Emiliano Martínez	Aston Villa	24	28.3	4.3
Robert Sánchez	Brighton	11	14.1	4.1
Bernd Leno	Arsenal	22	22.6	3.6
Hugo Lloris	Tottenham	22	23.5	3.5
Alisson	Liverpool	15	18.3	3.3
Kasper Schmeichel	Leicester City	25	27.1	3.1
Illan Meslier	Leeds United	37	38.1	2.1
Sam Johnstone	West Brom	50	48.4	1.4
Caoimhin Kelleher	Liverpool	1	2.2	1.2
Ederson	Manchester City	12	11.6	0.6
Dean Henderson	Manchester Utd	3	3.4	0.4
Darren Randolph	West Ham	0	0.4	0.4
Łukasz Fabiański	West Ham	28	28.2	0.2
Rúnar Alex Rúnarsson	Arsenal	0	0.1	0.1
Kiko Casilla	Leeds United	1	1	0
Fraser Forster	Southampton	0	0	0
Vicente Guaita	Crystal Palace	37	37	0
Robin Olsen	Everton	6	5.8	-0.2
David Button	West Brom	2	1.7	-0.3
Zack Steffen	Manchester City	1	0.6	-0.4
Marek Rodák	Fulham	3	2.5	-0.5
Bailey Peacock-Farrell	Burnley	5	4.4	-0.6
Edouard Mendy	Chelsea	14	13.3	-0.7
Kepa Arrizabalaga	Chelsea	6	4.8	-1.2
David de Gea	Manchester Utd	27	23.7	-1.3
Willy Caballero	Chelsea	3	1.5	-1.5
Karl Darlow	Newcastle Utd	38	34.4	-1.6

There we have it...a Manchester United goalkeeper on £350K a week mixing it with the likes of Bailey Peacock-Farrell, David Button, Robin Olsen, Kiko Casilla and Karl Darlow. De Gea is even below Kepa!

Yesterday I was accused of being arrogant by several posters...well, OK, I get angry and can be a bit patronising when I'm frustrated...but my feelings are that I can forgive any player a mistake. The problem is with De Gea is that he has been very poor since Jose's first season. Ever since then, visually and statistically he has been one of the worst GKs in the league.

Likewise, I can forgive handling errors. What I can't forgive, and I don't think any of us should forgive, is his cowardice. Most of us on this forum would give their right arms to play for Utd (and probably still be better GKs than DDG), yet this bloke is playing week-in, week-out and costs us goal after goal by being scared of the ball, opponents and his own shadow! Unforgivable for me.

Also, just one for the Henderson 'is not the answer' posters...I'd love to know how on earth you draw that conclusion? I'm not saying Henderson IS the answer....but last season he had the best save percentage and the best performance against xG in the Premier League. This season, he has only played 3.5 games in the PL and is performing like a proper keeper based on saves/expected saves...so how anybody has enough evidence to write him off is really baffling.

 

[OrcaFat]

I’m disappointed to see posters calling him a coward. That’s a very strong insult in my view, from the safety of the internet, it’s not civilised.

That said, some of his positioning and decision making suggest his confidence is low. Probably he is aware of the general decline in his performance levels and it is affecting him. At this stage of his career it could be a tough cycle to break.

 

[Red00012]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

He’s been questioned about his bravery a few times this season and When Our GK is afraid of contact it clearly is a big problem.

 

[FizzyWomack]

What's he part of?

Never thought he was part of our midfield or forwards. I always thought a keeper was part of the defence team. He has been crap for a long time now. He makes world class saves but at the same time concede goals that any decent keeper would save. The defence is so much under pressure because of him. We need a keeper who can come out and claim high balls with confidence. Come out certainly outside the 6 yard box. Hendo is certainly not the guy. I would rather it was Romeo rather than Hendo.

You know what the feck I mean guys. It’s our CB’s! If our CB’s weren’t like slugs we wouldn’t have all these problems.

I agree De Gea should’ve come out and claimed that ball, but our defenders should’ve also dealt with that ball.

 

[RUCK4444]

No posts at all in here for nearly 2 months. Now I see all the De Gea out parade are back in full force.

He isn’t the problem, the fecking defence is.

I’ve been a consistent defender of DeGea here but I’m livid with him after yesterday.

I’d rather see a howler than a gutless performance.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I know we were nervous about losing what was probably our only 'world-class' player at the time, but my God we once again find ourselves utterly fecked as a result of giving a player an exorbitant contract. It's completely mental.

We seem to extend contacts based on emotion. Same happened DDG. There are people who are page big money to get these decisions right. And don't.

 

[Judas]

Goalkeepers are so protected too, he could rush out and easily get a foul, look at the 3rd goal yesterday, but he's too scared, he's terrified of getting stuck in, has been since the day he arrived. He just doesn't have it in him to boss his area, it's so costly. The pressure thats added to our CB's is huge.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I’ve been a consistent defender of DeGea here but I’m livid with him after yesterday.

I’d rather see a howler than a gutless performance.

Yes. The problem with last night was that he wasn't fully committed. The attempt on the third goal is simply inexcusable.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

It must be a fecking nightmare being a CB playing in front of a goalkeeper who barely leaves his 6 yard box. Just invites pressure. Teams know crosses dropped between the 6 yard box and the goal line have a good chance of being attacked.

I've been saying this for years; even through the days were pundits were labeling De Gea as the best keeper in the world.

He must be a NIGHTMARE to play in front of .

This isn't a guy who controls his 18-yard box; his feet stick to his goalline.

Even Ferdinand and Vidic - who had proven to be a rock-solid partnership in front of other keepers - immediately looked frustrated and lost in front of De Gea.

And I will say this also, because I've argued it for years and nobody seems to want to admit this....

The reason De Gea makes so many 'great' last-ditch, on-the-line saves (with his feet mostly) is because no other keeper invites play into their box like De Gea does. A great goalkeeper shouldn't have to make the amount of last ditch, on-the-line saves that De Gea makes. A great goalkeeper wouldn't have the play inside his six yard box without dealing with it comfortably.

In much the same way that a great centre-half shouldn't have to make desperate last ditch tackles, because he should've dealt with the situation before it got 'desperate', a great goalkeeper shouldn't be making too many point-blank saves on his line like De Gea CONSTANTLY does.

He is such a weak goalkeeper. Always has been.

I've been saying this for years - David De Gea is the most overrated player I've ever seen at Manchester United. (Note: I didn't say the WORST; I said the MOST OVERRATED. How he was ever in discussion for being one of the greatest keepers in the world is beyond me... He wasn't even close.

 

[Suv666]

He makes a mistake every other game which is clearly not good enough. Should be benched imo, give others a chance.

 

[Judas]

You stick De Gea in goal for Liverpool the last couple of seasons, what do they win?

 

[hubbuh]

We seem to reward players for what they've done, not what they will do.

Yep PSG at a push maybe, but I don't remember any serious links to him going anywhere else.

I think even at the time of the the renewal I was questioning it. He's just got so many flaws to his game, flaws that he's never really worked on. When you the world class saves go away, you're left with a very average keeper.

We seem to extend contacts based on emotion. Same happened DDG. There are people who are page big money to get these decisions right. And don't.

All of this is correct. It's a really crap and unsustainable way to build a team. It's astonishing how much the club changed with the departure of Ferguson and Gill. By the same token, it's really mad that we gave Henderson a massive contract (relatively for a GK that had barely played a game for the club). There's so much 'protecting the asset' stuff at United that we can't see the wood for the trees.

De Gea has never ironed out his flaws and they seem to be getting increasingly pronounced as he gets older. His lack of courage and ability to command his box is so incredibly mediocre. We're genuinely stuck with him though. It's a horrible feeling.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yes. The problem with last night was that he wasn't fully committed. The attempt on the third goal is simply inexcusable.

Yeah. I never want to look at that third goal again.

 

[Eire Red United]

It’s Hendersons time to be given a run. We desperately need a pacy defender as well.

 

[RashfordisRed]

I’m disappointed to see posters calling him a coward. That’s a very strong insult in my view, from the safety of the internet, it’s not civilised.

That said, some of his positioning and decision making suggest his confidence is low. Probably he is aware of the general decline in his performance levels and it is affecting him. At this stage of his career it could be a tough cycle to break.

The word coward you are probably right - too strong.

Its just how many times his effort out to the ball is half arsed, it looks like someone worried about getting a boot somewhere and that approach has cost us this year.

 

[Silas]

The bizarre thing is when we gave him this monster contract there wasn't really anyone in for him, or needing a GK. Those big-money deals tend to be done to ward off competition, but there wasn't any at the time. We have this unusual tactic of giving players big contracts unnecessarily and it generally always bites us on the arse. It feels like the penny won't ever drop with this club.

Not just that, he had literally just cost us top 4 if I recall correctly. Awful Kante and Xhaka goals come to mind.

People at the time were saying "contract issues must be distracting him" like that's some sort of excuse.

 

[bsCallout]

All of this is correct. It's a really crap and unsustainable way to build a team. It's astonishing how much the club changed with the departure of Ferguson and Gill. By the same token, it's really mad that we gave Henderson a massive contract (relatively for a GK that had barely played a game for the club). There's so much 'protecting the asset' stuff at United that we can't see the wood for the trees.

De Gea has never ironed out his flaws and they seem to be getting increasingly pronounced as he gets older. His lack of courage and ability to command his box is so incredibly mediocre. We're genuinely stuck with him though. It's a horrible feeling.

DDG had the saving grace of being one of the best shot stoppers, helped by a defensive setup, that agility and athleticism diminishes slightly with age, now we see just a good shot stopped with lots of bad attributes.

 

[Lentwood]

I’m disappointed to see posters calling him a coward. That’s a very strong insult in my view, from the safety of the internet, it’s not civilised.

That said, some of his positioning and decision making suggest his confidence is low. Probably he is aware of the general decline in his performance levels and it is affecting him. At this stage of his career it could be a tough cycle to break.

coward

noun

1. a person who is contemptibly lacking in the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

 

[Can7onA]

He's never had any balls, this isn't a new thing he's going through, never comes for crosses, never clears his lines, gets bullied on corners.

No other team would put up with that, you've been a good servant Dave but it's time to go now, you're becoming a liability. Roy Keane has always had his number.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

The more I think about it, the more I think he IS the problem! Our CBs have weaknesses that can be exposed but they are also largely decent players who could play in most of the top teams. The stats and eye test for De Gea shows a player who is regularly making mistakes with his shot stopping, and doesn’t offer any redeemable qualities (communication, sweeping, one on ones, penalties, commanding his area) to make up for it. Can someone honestly come on here and list his current strengths.

Henderson deserves a run first and foremost as he’s clearly a talented keeper and he’s on our books already. Frankly I have no idea why he’s been written off by so many anyway as he’s largely been pretty good aside from one mistake. Unlike De Gea, Henderson is good at getting of his line, communicating and he’s a decent shot stopper. If we discover after a run of games he’s not the answer then Ole simply has to look for an upgrade as I think this is now a far more pressing concern than our CBS.

 

[norm87cro]

I see some people are rationalizing his mistake and I'm sorry I don't see any other scenario other that us winning yesterday with a GK like Romero let alone VDS.

 

[GMoore23]

I've wanted him out for a long time now. I wasn't even that big a fan during his prime as reflexes aside, he still had too many weaknesses.
The past 3 seasons reminds me of the post Schmeichel period. We really need a commanding GK as a replacement for him and I'm not even sure Henderson is the answer.
It may be that our defense isn't even that bad, they just can't push up higher as De Gea won't sweep behind them. They're also nervous as hell at set pieces as they know he ain't for coming off his line.
Imagine Schmeichel in goal at the end yesterday. He'd have dived at Calvert Lewin with his crazy star jump style dive and Calvert Lewin would have shit his pants. De Gea has never gained the respect of his opponents like the great
keepers before him because the guys such a coward.
I'm not even sure Henderson is the answer as so far, he appears to be a De Gea lite to me but he deserves a chance at least.
Romero was never given a chance here but imo, we need a world class keeper of his style. Commands his area, communicates well, sweeps up when needed, good positioning, good with the ball at his feet and a good shot stopper when needed.

In comparison, stats below since Romero signed in 15/16 season

Romero
Games - 61
Goals Conceded - 27
Clean Sheets - 39
Clean Sheet Percentage - 64%

De Gea
Games - 256
Goals Conceded - 265
Clean Sheets - 91
Clean Sheet Percentage - 35.5%

De Gea - last 2.5 seasons
Games - 116
Goals Conceded - 142
Clean Sheets - 34
Clean Sheet Percentage - 29.3%

A commanding win for Romero proving my point also that defenders perform better with him in goal.
Romero was never given a proper chance in the league yet in only 7 appearances he managed to keep a phenomenal 6 clean sheets.

I honestly believe we won't return to being a world class team until De Gea is replaced. GK is the most important position on the field and a leader there drives confidence through the whole team.

De Gea is our No1 problem.

 

[SSSSnake]

it’s time for Henderson to have a run. Ole has to make this decision and I hope he has the balls to make it. We can use this as a audition for next season and I’m sure he’ll take it with both hands.

 

[izec]

Ole will never drop him. Dropping Sanchez or Martial is easy, but De Gea was one of Fergie's boys. He wont drop him

He had so many opportunities to do so in the past, and never did. We will have him in goal at least for another season as number 1.

 

[simplyared]

Seen it too often, he's frightened of getting physically involved. A goalkeeper in that position on the 3rd goal must have it in their instinct to sacrifice themselves and smother that ball. What was once an asset is now becoming a big liability. Fear has taken over. I reckon he's fecked tbh!

 

[JJ12]

Ole will never drop him. Dropping Sanchez or Martial is easy, but De Gea was one of Fergie's boys. He wont drop him

Nothing to do with him being a ‘Fergie boy’

Henderson hasn’t exactly lit it up when given a chance - Ole was ready to move on earlier in the season IMO - Dean looked too shaky but it’s now time for a prolonged run IMO.

 

[Galactic]

He’s still one of the best shot stopper in the world to be fair to him. But he really need to change his game for the modern football. Need to get stuck in more and distribute better. That’s the way football is nowadays. This reminds me of how Liverpool struggled so much after the backpass rule started.

 

[Lay]

Unfortunately there’s no top team that needs him