Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04

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MrMarcello

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Would Mourinho have gotten Spurs the win against Liverpool in the CL Final a couple years back?

He seemed to set up his team perfectly for big matches. Of course, that's assuming he'd have gotten Spurs to that final as he may have been too cautious in the quarters or semis and his side may have been knocked out as a result. But I ponder - would he have started with a half-fit Kane? I don't think so.
 

FootballHQ

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Would Mourinho have gotten Spurs the win against Liverpool in the CL Final a couple years back?

He seemed to set up his team perfectly for big matches. Of course, that's assuming he'd have gotten Spurs to that final as he may have been too cautious in the quarters or semis and his side may have been knocked out as a result. But I ponder - would he have started with a half-fit Kane? I don't think so.
Last big final for him was 2018 FA cup so interesting if he's lost the aura now in big one off matches given Man. United didn't do anything that game until 60th minute onwards.

Certainly helps league cup final been moved to late April given the state Spurs are in currently and Man. City will likely be in title race and also in CL so will have other things on their mind.
 

Noot

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This is classic Jose:

Stage One- winning and playing well
Stage Two- winning, but playing poorly
Stage Three- dropping points often and playing poorly

If he lasts until Christmas I'll be very surprised.
 

FootballHQ

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Saw some comments from him basically saying yes he's lost two home league games for first time in long while but when was last time Spurs won a trophy.

That's going to be his narrative for next 3 months then. Everything is fine if they win the league cup which will still take a huge performance v Man. City. Really they need to go all in for the europa which would get more attention.
 

1966

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It's because for a while we associated "pragmatic football" with the tactics of managers like Dyche or Allardyce, managers who generally had demonstrably inferior players in terms of technique, so played well organised defensive football and relied upon route one to nick a goal. Given the players those managers had, that style of football was truly pragmatic.

But you're absolutely right, the way Mourinho plays isn't pragmatic at all
Good post. Yeah, "pragmatic" carries connotations of accepting the limitations of your coaching and players and just trying to maximise results at the expense of aesthetic considerations. Genuinely pragmatic management gets a team playing above par given its constituent parts.

Jose is the perfect example of why "pragmatic" doesn't mean "defensive". He has a very top-heavy squad, so the real pragmatic approach for him would be to play more attacking football - and risk conceding more - to take advantage of Spurs' strengths.

To me, at least in football, the antonym of "pragmatic" is something like "rigid" (rather than attacking vs defensive).
 
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Lay

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Saw some comments from him basically saying yes he's lost two home league games for first time in long while but when was last time Spurs won a trophy.

That's going to be his narrative for next 3 months then. Everything is fine if they win the league cup which will still take a huge performance v Man. City. Really they need to go all in for the europa which would get more attention.
So that’s his Sevilla moment
 

adexkola

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You don't see it in European football but Jose would make an excellent assistant coach focused on the defense alone. Maybe his ego (rightly so) wouldn't allow him to take such a position. But it's something you see all the time on this side of the pond
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Would Mourinho have gotten Spurs the win against Liverpool in the CL Final a couple years back?

He seemed to set up his team perfectly for big matches. Of course, that's assuming he'd have gotten Spurs to that final as he may have been too cautious in the quarters or semis and his side may have been knocked out as a result. But I ponder - would he have started with a half-fit Kane? I don't think so.
Kane surely isn't 100% fit to start today and its only WBA at home so that probably answers that. He wouldn't have got Spurs past City though, or arguably out of the group
 

InfiniteBoredom

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If we lose this Jose probably gets sacked.
Levy invested too much in Mourinho to call it quits this early. He probably hopes for a LC/EL double like us in 2017 when league form went to pieces around the same time, which means Mourinho will see out the season, or until he got kicked out of EL.
 

simplyared

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He said Brenford in the semis of the Carabao cup was his (or the clubs) most important game. Reckon todays game at home to West Brom is more important for him anyway.
HT 0-0 and the away team best clear cut chance missed. If he loses this one he's gone imo!
 

Guy Incognito

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His season hinges on keeping Son and Kane fit.

If Kane is out for the League Cup final, that's 50% of their attacking play wiped out.
 

Bale Bale Bale

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His season hinges on keeping Son and Kane fit.

If Kane is out for the League Cup final, that's 50% of their attacking play wiped out.
Tbh it's more like 90%.

Son doesn't work without Kane, which is funny as there was a time under Poch where some crazy people would say that Son and Spurs as a whole are better without Kane.
 

MrMarcello

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Kane surely isn't 100% fit to start today and its only WBA at home so that probably answers that. He wouldn't have got Spurs past City though, or arguably out of the group
He looked far sharper today compared to that final. It's also comparing a league match in round 23/whatnot versus a European Cup Final, apples to oranges.
 

giorno

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He looked far sharper today compared to that final. It's also comparing a league match in round 23/whatnot versus a European Cup Final, apples to oranges.
Exactly. In a CL final you play your best player in a wheelchair if you have to. But he plays
 

Bepi

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You don't see it in European football but Jose would make an excellent assistant coach focused on the defense alone. Maybe his ego (rightly so) wouldn't allow him to take such a position. But it's something you see all the time on this side of the pond
Whooop... Flashes of a banned poster, treblewinning or similar, claiming four years ago that Conte should have been taking an assistant role to United’s Jose before accepting the Chelsea job. Assistant coach is a different career in the continent, they are specialist not aiming at the main role.
 

MrMarcello

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Exactly. In a CL final you play your best player in a wheelchair if you have to. But he plays
Not if that player is half-fit, or fully crocked. One is not tossing said best player on the pitch with a broken leg or knee injury obviously.

Kane would have better fit that match coming on as a fresh sub for the final 15-30 mins. He simply was not ready for a full 90 and it showed.
 

Bepi

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Not if that player is half-fit, or fully crocked. One is not tossing said best player on the pitch with a broken leg or knee injury obviously.

Kane would have better fit that match coming on as a fresh sub for the final 15-30 mins. He simply was not ready for a full 90 and it showed.
Did Simeone do a similar thing with Diego Costa in the year before? He started but was not fit, and was subbed after just ten minutes. Point is, the coach needs to share the respinsibility at such an important and career defining stage. If your talisman asks you to start, you just field him.
 

Cloud7

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Would Mourinho have gotten Spurs the win against Liverpool in the CL Final a couple years back?

He seemed to set up his team perfectly for big matches. Of course, that's assuming he'd have gotten Spurs to that final as he may have been too cautious in the quarters or semis and his side may have been knocked out as a result. But I ponder - would he have started with a half-fit Kane? I don't think so.
Jose sets his team up exactly the same these days whether it's Liverpool or Leyton Orient. He absolutely does not set his team up perfectly to win a big match anymore.
 

giorno

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Not if that player is half-fit, or fully crocked. One is not tossing said best player on the pitch with a broken leg or knee injury obviously.

Kane would have better fit that match coming on as a fresh sub for the final 15-30 mins. He simply was not ready for a full 90 and it showed.
There isn't a single manager in history who wouldn't start his best player and talisman in a CL final. If he can stand on his own, he plays
 

1966

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Tbh it's more like 90%.

Son doesn't work without Kane, which is funny as there was a time under Poch where some crazy people would say that Son and Spurs as a whole are better without Kane.
That was a shitty meme that I used to identify people that either don't watch Spurs or don't understand football. But yeah, it was very common. Now seems pretty outrageous, of course, but it always was.

If there were ever a bounce without Kane, it was a mirage. To some extent, teams no longer know how to prepare for or play against a Spurs without Kane, which can be exploited as Poch did. But even that doesn't seem to work anymore/under Jose.
 

1966

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There isn't a single manager in history who wouldn't start his best player and talisman in a CL final. If he can stand on his own, he plays
Agreed. I've already made a lot of defences of starting Kane in that final (before, during, immediately afterwards and ever since) so I'll just summarise my main points:
- As is now being made clear, Kane is so much better than every alternative that the potential reward of him playing well outweighs the potential risk of poor match fitness. We're also now seeing that Kane's presence is a massive boost on its own (both in motivating his own team and demoralising opponents; unlike a final against, say, Bayern, Liverpool's squad is full of players with memories of being Kaned). Poch's decision essentially boiled down to "risk Kane and win if he plays at his best or don't play Kane and lose regardless".

- Poch would've received even more criticism if he'd lost without Kane (which he would've done). You would look insane if you left your best player out after declaring him fit.

- Poch had no actual match data to go on. He had to make a call based on training observations. Speaking of which, none of us are privy to how Kane was performing in practice. This could've informed Poch's decision in a way that none of us could possibly understand. We'll potentially never know.

- None of the squad had played for about six weeks or something. In a sense, nobody was "match fit". And "recent" form (the key argument for Lucas starting) had become meaningless, thus the only thing that actually mattered was who was physically fit. Poch may have felt that Kane was closer to 100% than he was.

- Kane would've pushed hard to start. Probably would've been unhappy at the club for a long time after that if he hadn't.

- Lucas is a fraud. I said this at the time as well but now it's impossible to deny. Scoring that hat trick was the peak of his career but it never seriously put him in contention to displace Kane at Kane's preferred position. Sometimes people talk about his "form" leading up to the match (basically one game in the CL) but he'd actually been garbo in the PL between that semifinal and the final.

- Also worth noting that Lucas and Kane were never really in direct competition, contrary to the memes. They play different positions very differently. If Lucas had started, it wouldn't have been Kane who made way. Evidenced by the fact that he eventually did come on in a different position.

- With that in mind, Spurs only really had one first team level striker available at that time, so why the hell wouldn't he be picked? Experiments with Son since then have shown that he's absolutely not a drop-in Kane substitute (which was always obvious but apparently not for some people). Lucas is even less of a Kane substitute.

- In the end, Kane had surprisingly little to do with Spurs' loss. They fecked themselves inside the first few minutes (with a criminal decision tbf). Kane didn't even play that badly. Sure, he wasn't good, but the weight of expectation made him look way worse. Him performing was the only realistic way Spurs were winning after the first few minutes and he clearly wasn't in a state to do it. Nonetheless, the rest of the team were almost to a man hot garbage. Kane was one of their only players who didn't forget how to complete basic six yard passes. Nerves wrecked most of them. Other stars like Eriksen were worse than Kane. Nobody could fashion one clear-cut chance for him in that match (arguably, of course, he should've "done it all himself" - because that old meme.. - but that was definitely too much to ask in the circumstances).
 
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romufc

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Didn't Fergie rush Rooney back for the CL tie against Bayern when he done his metatarsal?

Any manager will rush their best player back, especially a CL final.
 

Flexdegea

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This is snowballing quicker than I ever thought.


They looked lively too and have just collapsed.



Bit like us on Saturday :lol:
 

RedDevilzFox

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The large gust of wind would be collective spurs exhale when JoMo inevitable gets the boot.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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This is the 2nd time he has conceded 4 or more in a single cup game right? The other one would be the Dortmund game in 12/13, unless I’m missing something.

Against Everton though...
 

FootballHQ

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As I suspect in a few weeks time it will be europa or bust and he'll be back to 16/17 again and playing likes of Alfie Devine and Harvey White v Arsenal and Man. United...... :drool:
 
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