If you think we’re limited by the manager that means you think that without Ole we’d be a lot better off.
how many points/goals do you think Ole has limited us by?
“ If De Bruyne (£68m) has an off day, City have Mahrez (£61m), Sterling (£57m), Silva (£45m), Foden, Gundogan (£24m), & Ferran (£21m)
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
how many points/goals do you think Ole has limited us by?
So we need another 300 million to beat Sheffield, West Brom and Crystal Palace?
Okay then.
Okay then.
What are you looking for here, a game by game breakdown?
Give it a rest Wum, I’ve neither the time nor the inclination to entertain that level of silliness.
No.
We might need another two hundred million to catch up with one of the best teams of all time. Who have a massive head start, spend more and have a deeper squad.
fecking hell, some of you honestly don’t grasp simple concepts.
Teams don’t always beat others who they are better than.
No,not game by game. Just points. Or goals. Ballpark figure.
I don't think it was to be honest. I look at the individual transfers and I don't think we spent that well. I look at 80m for Maguire and can't see why we couldn't have gotten a better CB for that price. I look at 40m for VDB who Ole doesn't seem to rate or trust can't help but think that could have been spent better than just rotting on the bench. 35m for players who as you say who might take years to become a first teamers when in the title of the thread we can see Torres was available for 21m and could have been a solid contributor this season. We paid an 10 million loan fee to extend Ighalo's stay and he barely got a kick. It's not just players brought during Ole's time either, Fred is a waste of 50m, Pogba has not lived up to a world record transfer, we made Sanchez the highest payed player in the league and there's probably more I'm not remembering right now.
I think there is something deeply wrong with how we identify players or with the people who's job it is to secure the best deals for the club. At this point I feel like the squad is fundamentally flawed across all lines and until we rectify the issue, it will be near impossible to close the gap on a side who can beef up the squad with top end players at will.
Sorry; just a quick one... you think we paid ten million for Ighalo’s loan fee?
Ole doesn't spend a penny, nor does he do any negotiation.
That's left up to bollockhead and his mate from uni.
If yer gonna throw shit about spending, throw it upstairs at the clownshow.
We're not trying to be like any of those teams though are we?
City is the benchmark, and so was Liverpool until this season. If we can't get the best out of our players, it doesn't matter if we've got a team full of Emile Heskeys or a team full of Lionel Messis. We will always underperform.
How do you figure that?
No. We want to be number one.
obviously.
However, at the moment every team in the league is struggling. Every single one. They all look bollocked, they all can’t score and they all struggle against the teams lower down. Every one.
Apart from City.
Some of that will be down to coaching.
of course, the other thing is that they have a much deeper squad with incrddible players who they can constantly rotate.
how many people play FF and bemoan City. “You never know who is going to start.” Bet you all have said it or heard someone say it.
the point is that is why they’re currently doing well. Certainly a part of it.
Whilst we are “the best of the rest”. Not where we want to be. But a lot better than where we were.
Only the elite ones .
I mean if you want to look at the league from the most one dimensional point of view possible, sure. Our league position in isolstion is nothing to complain about, but as with everything in life there's context. Taking form in to account, the chances of us beating City on Sunday are pretty slim. That means that we could find ourselves in a position on Sunday where we sit 3rd behind Leicester, while allowing either Chelsea or Liverpool to gain five points on us over the course of two match weeks.
The league table is dynamic and as it stands our form is trending downwards more so than some of the teams around us like Chelsea. We can look at the league table as a static point of reference now, but the reality is that we've hit a pretty bad run of form and there's no evidence that the manager, or to be fair the players, know how to turn it around.
Almost twice the price isn't that much expensive.
Martial says hi
Fair enough. We could drop to third after playing City.
of course then we’ve played City, Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal twice and remain one point behind second withplenty of “winnable” games to go and injured players returning.
point is - as of now - were in a good spot.
I’ve no clue off-hand, but you know as well as I do that there have been a litany of examples of games where we’ve looked collectively clueless as a team and/or been screaming out for changes that haven’t been made.
You always do the same dancing around from excuse to excuse talking about City spending X amount or our “net spend” (vomit) or whatever, but the fundamental point is that this squad is capable of more than it is achieving.
I don’t know who the “right” man is, but I’m pretty well convinced it isn’t Ole sadly.
This isn’t a new position and it’s not a knee jerk reaction to the last three games or whatever other shite you’ll jump to, yet you and your ilk will still run around calling anyone with a different view to you on this an idiot or say they have a lower level of intelligence than you or whatever that bullshit was, making a thousand threads to distract from the reality.
At the end of the day, if Ole wasn’t who Ole is, he’d have nowhere near the level of backing he still gets.
So Martial was better under Mourinho?
So what is the problem? That City have gathered good players over the years, while we were spending just as much but on wrong players?
Naming van de Beek among the injured players was a nice touch. We're clearly missing him on the bench.
Who's talking about catching up? That takes time.
It's the manner of the results that have been problematic for some time.
But you don't need a deeper fecking squad to beat those three bottom teams. The quality we have should be enough.
The excuses are getting ridiculous now.
The problem is there's a manager who has failed to correct the issue of playing against low block teams for two years now. Not a few months. Not a season. 2 and a half seasons and he hasn't fixed it.
Our forwards become dead in the water unless they can run in behind, which most of the time is not the case.
Our players have noticeably regressed this season which is very worrying.
Not one or two players. Four or five.
Honestly, we could come back in 5 years with the same shit and you'd still be finding ways to defend it.
A) it’s not my fault there is scientific evidence that people who support Ole have higher IQs. (Evidence: the RedCafe forums)
B) there have been about four pro Ole threads compared to fifty ole out threads.
C) no one is calling you knee jerk.
D) sorry you are wrong so much.
eh?
But we have beat those teams this year. More than anyone else. Apart from City.
Instead of listing them three you could list Leeds, Southampton or Newcastle who we comfortably dispatched.
We don’t have a right to beat teams lowerdown the table. L
Compared to his current state, pretty much, no?
I have seen that posted twice in the last thirty minutes.
I don’t think some posters watch the games.
it's nonsense, why has he left off martial, Cavani and Greenwood. Two of which were brilliant last year and the other has been good this year yet he adds Gundogan who has been brilliant for about two months of his city career, Ferran who has barely kicked a ball and Mahrez who city fans were calling crap at the beginning of the season, It is the coaching.
The very fact half those city players were crap at the beginning of the season until Pep changed things around proves it's the coaching/management.
Why is nothing ever Ole's fault? every dropped point, it's either not his fault the players can't pass, not his fault the defenders can't defend or not his fault the players can't finish.
The very fact half those city players were crap at the beginning of the season until Pep changed things around proves it's the coaching/management.
Why is nothing ever Ole's fault? every dropped point, it's either not his fault the players can't pass, not his fault the defenders can't defend or not his fault the players can't finish.
Of course, much better than now.
I say this with all due respect, you’re a fecking moron.
feck me, if only we haven't been just as shit in many games when we had Bruno, Rashford, Pogba, DvB, Greenwood, Mata, Martial to call upon. And a 50m full back and 80m CB.
Poor us.
Half those players he named are that good BECAUSE of Pep.
Poor us.
Half those players he named are that good BECAUSE of Pep.
We’ve got a better squad than most of the league, and yet it’s absolutely no where near City and probably Liverpool as well. Second place is actually flattering us.
The “who would you take from the 99 and 2008” thread hits home as to how comparatively poor this squad is.
The “who would you take from the 99 and 2008” thread hits home as to how comparatively poor this squad is.
From a city fan pov. If any of those guys are having an off day they still work hard. That's the key, hard work. Same with SAF.
If martial is having an off day utd are a man down. Same with rashford, lingard when he was there.
Like SAF the most important thing is team spirit, hard work and belief/confidence. Individual creativity comes way down the list.
All pep has done is buy humble hard working players that are technically good, he's given them a good game plan and makes them stick to it.
If martial is having an off day utd are a man down. Same with rashford, lingard when he was there.
Like SAF the most important thing is team spirit, hard work and belief/confidence. Individual creativity comes way down the list.
All pep has done is buy humble hard working players that are technically good, he's given them a good game plan and makes them stick to it.
that’s it.
Me and you.
Outside OT on the first game back. You’re allowed to bring three other posters to fill out your firm. We will have it out there and then. No weapons and no facial injuries. I’m choosing @Regulus Arcturus Black , @esmufc07 and @Niall as my backup.
I kind of get it. Without the other creative players through the middle and if Bruno goes off or was injured, the only real option is to play mctominay and fred in a 442 and old fashioned wingers which we dont have, they are inverted and come inside rather than stay wide and cross.
I’d love to see an experiment of greenwood left and rashford right trying to cross for cavani and martial. I actually think we are tactically limited with our personnel sometimes
I’d love to see an experiment of greenwood left and rashford right trying to cross for cavani and martial. I actually think we are tactically limited with our personnel sometimes
Yeah I felt like I read that somewhere but it was actually 6m to extend it to January of this year. That said 6m for 3 or 4 appearances probably wasn't worth it really.
Oh yeah, thank gosh you have those hard working players that’s golly gee brilliant that they work so hard.
Keep seeing people say everything's alright because we're second in the league. Do you guys feel like we're about to springboard from that? Next season, with Guardiola at City and Klopp at Liverpool, do you feel like we're challenging for the title next season? Is this a building block? Or do you feel like we'll drop back into 3rd-6th territory again?
Do we just keep waiting for Guardiola to leave and hope City have planned poorly for his successor? Because no way we can compete with City and Pep?
Do we just keep waiting for Guardiola to leave and hope City have planned poorly for his successor? Because no way we can compete with City and Pep?
Yes. I think that with two signings now we can really push on. Never felt like that in the last few years. Think next year if luck falls our way and we signed a RW and a CB we can go for it.
We spent closer to City than Pool, may be the explanation is we dont have recruitment strategy or we end up paying more because we dont have an elite manager for players to buy into.
Edit: there's a huge gulf in technical abilities of City players and ours. Their team looks "coached"
Edit: there's a huge gulf in technical abilities of City players and ours. Their team looks "coached"