SATA
Full Member
What connection does he have with Barca except that he’s Spanish and Pep’s so called disciple?
In not saying he's not done wrong, he's certainly made mistakes.He does need to explain why he persists with Willian though.
He spent 5 years as a youth going through their system.What connection does he have with Barca except that he’s Spanish and Pep’s so called disciple?
I mean, who cares? Arsenal are thirteen time English league champions. You're a huge football and shouldn't be a training ground for young managers to learn their trade. Note that this doesn't mean you should resist hiring young managers but that standards should be required to be met, whether the manager is 52 or 32. A young manager is not like a young striker, you can't persist with them for 5 years while they 'figure themselves out'.It's the modern fans view of wanting instant success, the new big shiny toys, & constant change. Unfortunately all clubs have them.
Arsenal need a shit load of player movement. Its his first job, he's had 1 summer transfer window, no normal pre season yet, a Covid environment, in a season where everyone bar City has been injury hit & inconsistent as feck, season still has a third to go, yet we're already judging him as shite & out his depth.
Once Partey gets a good run going it will be interesting to see how things progress.In not saying he's not done wrong, he's certainly made mistakes.
He's not starting any more in the must win games, & he (& Pepe) actually played well vs Leicester so maybe he's coming into some form at the right time.
I agree with you on all points except the "first job" part. That is not an excuse for Ole, Lampard, Arteta or Guardiola at Barca or anyone at a big club. Clubs like this are not a place for learning but of delivering results and football.It's the modern fans view of wanting instant success, the new big shiny toys, & constant change. Unfortunately all clubs have them.
Arsenal need a shit load of player movement. Its his first job, he's had 1 summer transfer window, no normal pre season yet, a Covid environment, in a season where everyone bar City has been injury hit & inconsistent as feck, season still has a third to go, yet we're already judging him as shite & out his depth.
Using that logic literally anyone might be a success there. I mean, how would you know?!I don't get the confidence with which people speak crap on this. In no way am I arguing Arteta would be a success there absolutely. How would I know? How would anyone know?
Which manager would have us winning the league instantly?I mean, who cares? Arsenal are thirteen time English league champions. You're a huge football and shouldn't be a training ground for young managers to learn their trade. Note that this doesn't mean you should resist hiring young managers but that standards should be required to be met, whether the manager is 52 or 32. A young manager is not like a young striker, you can't persist with them for 5 years while they 'figure themselves out'.
Exactly, there's limits as to what's acceptable at big clubs, even during rebuilds.I agree with you on all points except the "first job" part. That is not an excuse for Ole, Lampard, Arteta or Guardiola at Barca or anyone at a big club. Clubs like this are not a place for learning but of delivering results and football.
I'm for the opinion of keeping Ole but not because he is still leaning but because he has shown progress above expectations (3ed in the league last season; 2ed at the time of writing) and bringing players in of the right character. If things were different I would have been the first to say "Ole out". My patience is down to the massive job of a rebuild, not the experience of the manager. I am pissed off we are 2ed and not 1st but I can see the progress that will bring us there.
We finish outside of top 4 or we regress or stagnate, it is time to find a new manager no discussion.
Wasn't really the point. I highlighting that it shouldn't matter whether this Arteta's 1st or 10th job.Which manager would have us winning the league instantly?
Wasn't really the point. I highlighting that it shouldn't matter whether this Arteta's 1st or 10th job.
And? As I mentioned before, Juve, Barca, Bayern, Real all bigger clubs, all hired rookies. Standard should be met, but there also needs to be basic understanding of the situation.I mean, who cares? Arsenal are thirteen time English league champions. You're a huge football and shouldn't be a training ground for young managers to learn their trade. Note that this doesn't mean you should resist hiring young managers but that standards should be required to be met, whether the manager is 52 or 32. A young manager is not like a young striker, you can't persist with them for 5 years while they 'figure themselves out'.
Absolutely not. If you believe that he has top class managerial ability you should definitely stick with him as the Arsenal rebuild with undoubtedly take time. But I don't think you should make concessions due to his being newbie when coming to that assessment of his quality.And? As I mentioned before, Juve, Barca, Bayern, Real all bigger clubs, all hired rookies. Standard should be met, but there also needs to be basic understanding of the situation.
We are 10th just now, thanks largely to our sticky spell we had in October / November. We have since improved, both in results, & performances. The season isn't over yet, so we don't know where we'll finish.
So, our support have seen that improvement, can see we have good youngsters, & can see we have the potential to improve more with a couple more of the right signings.
It's like you almost seem perplexed that a club is willing to give a manager time & stick to a project. I and many others will judge him more harshly next season.
Point taken. Its not the point he's a newbie I'm making concessions for mostly, it's the sheer scale of the task that needed done at Arsenal. Your talking about potentially turning over 10-15 players in about 18 months. In a Covid environment & restricted finances. I was critical of him during our poor run as he was getting his team selection wrong, & I wanted him to blood the likes of Smith-Rowe & build more for the future, or I feared he was putting himself out of a job, & my posts at the time on here said as much.Absolutely not. If you believe that he has top class managerial ability you should definitely stick with him as the Arsenal rebuild with undoubtedly take time. But I don't think you should make concessions due to his being newbie when coming to that assessment of his quality.
They're 10th right now, with a record of 11-4-11. You can't get more mid-table than that.Yeah that didn't happen
Incorrect.I think he's handled himself we'll, they had something like 12 points after 12 games and we're just above the relegation zone going into Christmas and he's turned it around well, it's his first job, lets see how it pans out, he's trying to get them to play a different style which possibly isn't suited to Aubamayang but he's sticking with it, fair play.
Arteta had 0 job experience at managing. Arsenal is not in its best shape but there are loads of managers out there that have some level of accomplishments that can only dream of managing Arsenal FC. You've taken the best striker from Germany and one of the best wide attackers from France and the World, one of the best DM in the World, etc. You really think you would have trouble at attracting managers?In your opinion. The club can't attract the top manager, whoever that may be, because it's very clear that the owner has no interest in throwing money around to win titles.
Yeah this is what I don't get. Emery's first season was better than anything Arteta produced and his second season was... on par with what Arteta's been doing ever since.Emery was sacked (and mocked) for a lot less, where was all this energy for him?
Sure thing pal. It's clear you don't know what you're talking about.Arteta had 0 job experience at managing. Arsenal is not in its best shape but there are loads of managers out there that have some level of accomplishments that can only dream of managing Arsenal FC. You've taken the best striker from Germany and one of the best wide attackers from France and the World, one of the best DM in the World, etc. You really think you would have trouble at attracting managers?
Barca took a chance on Guardiola after watching him in the reserves, Chelsea with Lampard after doing ok with Derby (mistake IMO) and United after Ole won Moldes first ever title. Arsenal went with Arteta completely blind. The man has never ever been in charge of a football team at any level and Arsenal chose him as the manager. It is an appalling decision and the results are not surprising.
Where you saying all this with Emery out of interest? He had arguably an even worse squad left by Wenger especially considering likes of Martinelli and Saka (who he gave debuts to) were very inexperienced compared to now.It's the modern fans view of wanting instant success, the new big shiny toys, & constant change. Unfortunately all clubs have them.
Arsenal need a shit load of player movement. Its his first job, he's had 1 summer transfer window, no normal pre season yet, a Covid environment, in a season where everyone bar City has been injury hit & inconsistent as feck, season still has a third to go, yet we're already judging him as shite & out his depth.
Emery lost the dressing room, & became a figure of fun, with players & media sneering at him (remember good ebening)? Once you lose the dressing room, it's very difficult to come back from that.Where you saying all this with Emery out of interest? He had arguably an even worse squad left by Wenger especially considering likes of Martinelli and Saka (who he gave debuts to) were very inexperienced compared to now.
Not saying he's the greatest manager out there but he's proving at Villareal he's a good enough top 5 manager in major league and they'll be difficult draw in europa.
5th and europa final in which Hazard was decisive factor in the second half. Went wrong the next season but even then the form wasn't as bad as the run Arteta had you on at similar time.
It really was odd end to 18/19 season looking back. Arsenal blew 4th with some bad away defeats, Man. United completely blew up after having that mass winning run at start of OGS reign and think Chelsea got 3rd in the end despite only winning two of their last 6 games. Would be surprised if Arsenal got as close to top 4 next season as that.
Yes I was on about this season and yes it was an abysmal run but they appear to have dug themselves out of it, he may well have been the wrong person for the Arsenal job but I think he'll do ok in his career, he knows how he wants the team to play and he's getting them playing that way.Incorrect.
This was placing just before he took charge:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50791634
Not great but miles clear of relegation and they were actually only 6 points off 4th with over half a season still to play so much closer than where they were in December this season.
Man. United (2 points ahead) and Spurs (3 points ahead) both lost that weekend. Both finished in the top 6.
Very average league form in his 12 months there. Let's remember Emery finishing 5th was seen as a disaster in his only season there. Arsenal need CL income one way or the other so Arteta needs to come up with answer soon enough but I wouldn't have them as anywhere near favourites for europa.
Edit: Oh think you were on about this season. Well considering they won their first two it was an abysmal run of form to even get themselves into that situation where they were only a few points above relegation zone at halfway point of the season.
Only defence I'd say of him is he's missed likes of Partey and Tierney for decent chunks of his reign so need to see what their results are like when those two + Saka, Auba, ESM/Martinelli, Odegaard can all start at same time.
Yeah but he didn't take them there. They've been a midtable club for a bit.They're 10th right now, with a record of 11-4-11. You can't get more mid-table than that.
You think Arteta has them punching miles below their weight? I'd beg to differUsing that logic literally anyone might be a success there. I mean, how would you know?!
What we do know is that Arteta has been in charge of Arsenal during one of their worst seasons in a very long time. Punching miles below their weight, in terms of wage bill and value of their squad.
Now there may be hidden depths that Barca are aware of but none of us know about. That’s a bit of a pointless basis for discussion though.
They finished 5th in 19/20 with 70 points. Ahead of United, even. Not exactly a title challenge, admittedly, but they'll be nowhere near 70 points this season.Yeah but he didn't take them there. They've been a midtable club for a bit.
Moyes and Ancelotti took over weaker squad's at pretty much the same time and are 8 and 9 points clear of Arsenal respectively.Yeah but he didn't take them there. They've been a midtable club for a bit.
You think Arteta has them punching miles below their weight? I'd beg to differ
And yes, clubs have access to tons of information they use to decide whether someone is suited for the manager role, that we have no access to. We can guess the way we do on other topics but fans in general overstate certain factors when it comes to managers succeeding.
I think it's clear you don't know how to answer with counter arguments but decided you should still answer with...something. Same attitude that keeps the Arsenal FC manager in job after having 11 defeats. I love it.Sure thing pal. It's clear you don't know what you're talking about.
You could differ but (with respect) you’d be wrong.You think Arteta has them punching miles below their weight? I'd beg to differ
Why though? We are second in the league and some fans think we have the worst manager ever. Arteta has 11 defeats 11 wins with arguably the most expensive attack in the league. He is almost as close to relegation as he is to top 4. It's literally the worst possible situation for Arsenal safe from actually being in the relegation battle. The future might yet prove he is capable to being a top manager but at the time of writing, given player quality and league results, he is by far the worst performer in the Premier League.
I think he's handled himself we'll, they had something like 12 points after 12 games and we're just above the relegation zone going into Christmas and he's turned it around well, it's his first job, lets see how it pans out, he's trying to get them to play a different style which possibly isn't suited to Aubamayang but he's sticking with it, fair play.
I agree with @Thunderhead & @GoonerBear here. When I see Arteta I just get the sense that he knows what he is doing and he is doing the right things there. There are some parallels with Ole's situation. Like United, they are still trying to fully recover their identity after having a strong leader leave the club. Also like United when they are good they are actually very good, they just struggle with consistency. I was very impressed with their performance against Leicester.It's the modern fans view of wanting instant success, the new big shiny toys, & constant change. Unfortunately all clubs have them.
Arsenal need a shit load of player movement. Its his first job, he's had 1 summer transfer window, no normal pre season yet, a Covid environment, in a season where everyone bar City has been injury hit & inconsistent as feck, season still has a third to go, yet we're already judging him as shite & out his depth.
Mitigated by several injuries to Arsenal's squad IIRC.Moyes and Ancelotti took over weaker squad's at pretty much the same time and are 8 and 9 points clear of Arsenal respectively.
That's not Arteta's fault, that's the fault of disastrous contracts handed out by their management over the years.You could differ but (with respect) you’d be wrong.
5th highest net spend (last 5 years)
2nd highest wage bill (the metric that a lot of people argue has the most reliable correlation with success)
Arsenal are currently 10th.
Arteta clearly has them punching below their weight.
It's probably better than ours last season that got 4th and it's certainly better than the squad Emery narrowly missed out on 4th with.Mitigated by several injuries to Arsenal's squad IIRC.
Seriously, have you seen their squad? They should have no expectations of hitting top 4 yet.
I think they should have been in the thick of the battle for top four all season long. I also think that Arteta has missed a huge opportunity to take advantage of a season where so many of Arsenal’s usual rivals are off the pace. The fact that clubs with a fraction of the budgets of Arsenal (e.g. Everton and Leicester) have benefitted most from the struggles of Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea is a damning indictment of the job Arteta has been doing at Arsenal.That's not Arteta's fault, that's the fault of disastrous contracts handed out by their management over the years.
Plus, he (luckily) won a trophy last season. More than can be said for most clubs in the league.
I'm curious as to what you think their ceiling is.
Messi as player managerWho should Barca hire/target?
Someone like Nagelsmann? Marsch? Blanc? De Zerbi? Other?
I think they should have been in the thick of the battle for top four all season long. I also think that Arteta has missed a huge opportunity to take advantage of a season where so many of Arsenal’s usual rivals are off the pace. The fact that clubs with a fraction of the budgets of Arsenal (e.g. Everton and Leicester) have benefitted most from the struggles of Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea is a damning indictment of the job Arteta has been doing at Arsenal.
I even think you could include United in the “struggling clubs” category. Hate to say it but Manchester United with Ole in charge is an opportunity for Arsenal to get one over on us that someone like Wenger could only dream of.
I probably worded that badly. My point is Wenger could only dream of coming up against a United manager as green as Ole. To have Fergie in charge throughout his Arsenal career was a bit of a nightmare.
What does that even mean? He got a plenty over you when you were in your prime.
I probably worded that badly. My point is Wenger could only dream of coming up against a United manager as green as Ole.
You do realize we won 5 titles in 7 seasons under Sir Alex after Chelsea came along ?Well maybe, but let's be honest....you're not the gold standard anymore. We had your number before but then along came Chelsea and then City