Maybe it is just that my standards are so low now, but that wasn't that bad of a first half. Just need to cut out some of the lax passing
Is Ole’s football really any better than José & LVG’s?
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Logical explanation for what?
I said this in the matchday thread but I really can't be the only who feels sleepy 10 minutes into most games we play nowadays ?
Its not a lack of urgency. It’s the reality of facing a team with ten men behind the ball.
We created one sitter and one very presentable chance which produced a world-class save. We also flashed the ball across the box a few times and have had 5/6 corners.
There’s plenty there to score a goal but again, I feel we lack a world-class CF and a viable RW
That inexperienced coaches may well be a part of the problem
Not even world class
We lack an experienced centre forward
I like Greenwood and think he’s been lively, I’d give him the ball more often. But he’s been played on the right so much it’s going to take a second to get his groove playing centre, he kept drifting right during the game
I would be interested to know, how you would describe your stance in that case. Also laughable? I mean you do know just as much "nothing of their capability and of what they do on the training pitch" as anybody else, right? So how come you do insist that one factor must not be the reason for our woes?
I can tell that this stance seems easily just as laughable to me.
Is it just me or we’ve been good today? Rashford and Mason scores, and we’re home and dry considering the team they put out. I understand if you don’t rate Ole, I generally don’t too, but I’m evaluating on a game-by-game basis, and we’ve been fine today. We just need to score the opening goal.
Watching us this season - they’re more a problem, than a solution.
Another game that the opposition sit back, another game we look devoid of ideas. Are the coaches not meant to work on that?
We just stand still most of the time passing it side to side.
This isn’t going anywhere, there’s no point repeating ourselves.
People act like we are the only team that miss chances.
How would a CF help us pass the ball better and play with more urgency?
This team has problems all over the pitch.
How would a CF help us pass the ball better and play with more urgency?
This team has problems all over the pitch.
We could quite easily be 2-0. We should absolutely be at least 1-0 up.
I don't get what you find 'quite laugable'. Fans don't see training sessions, match preparation, pre-match or half time team talks, tactical briefings, coaching meetings or any of it.
Are you saying that any opinion on issues facing a team that don't exclusively involve the 90 minutes we see on the pitch are 'quite laughable' or are you just being condescending for the purposes of this issue?
You've never expressed any opinion on any issue surrounding football outside of that which you see with your own two eyes then presumably in your nearly posts as you'd find the idea 'quite laugbale'. Presumably your posting history involves you running around chastising anyone talking about anything outside match day performance.
We have been really good. Total domination against a good team. We should be one or two up, but as I have pointed out many times we don’t score the cheap, scrappy goals which are required to get ahead at times in tight PL games.
Can't wait for that new deal to be signed. Need 2-3 more years of this brilliant football.
This is the biggest problem today, there's lack of any attacking outlet on the right and it's hurting the team.
Not sure this is an appropriate bump, though there usually is some merit in the accusation. West Ham are effectively playing a 6-3-1 and contributing the most to a dire spectacle.
That’s where Marcus needs to improve, because that header is the definition of the goal you’re describing. Cavani would have buried that for us, and hopefully Haaland begins doing so in August.
Yeah, the only time we created anything from the right was when Greenwood drifted out to that side. I actually wonder is it worth trying Bruno as a false 9 with Rashford and Greenwood either side if we haven’t scored by the 70th minute.
I like the way Bruno produces those little lay-off’s and one-touch passes in that position, plus we know he is a threat in the box
Is Ole going to beat LVG's 0-0 record?
He knows as much as you tbf.
I’ve outlined my thoughts within this thread. I’m not repeating myself because you decided to stick your beak in at the very end, probably because it’s 0-0 at HT and you’re seeing your arse.
Indeed he does.
All about opinins eh
It all comes down to what level of responsibility you put on the players. Some people seem to think they’re accountable for f**k all and we pay them £200k a week for shits and giggles.
Nah that one certainly works both ways. It's usually lay the blame at the players door or lay it all solely at Ole and the coaches door. The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle.
Indeed it is, nobody’s free from blame. But coaches don’t fluff headers and give the ball to the opposition. Nor do they coach away the gaping holes in our squad.
They're responsible for plenty of other things though, which contribute to how we play. We have players who blatantly aren't good enough and we possibly have coaches too. Obviously we can only use our own judgement regarding the coaching staff, as there's no real metric to judge their capabilities, bar what we see on the pitch.
It's not really outlandish to suggest that we could be a better coached team and possibly some of our coaching staff aren't at the level required. It's all very subjective as none of us have any insignt into what goes on. Unless of course you live in lala land with @GoldTrafford99 and pretend you've written published books on SAF and are best buds with all our coaching staff.
On the break, we're great but against a settled defence our plan is to pass it around until Bruno, Rashford and/or Pogba does something.
This is why we're so good away and against City but so poor at home and in games like this.
OGS would be a good manager for half the PL but I can't see us ever winning a league with him because we are so poor at breaking down teams.
This is why we're so good away and against City but so poor at home and in games like this.
OGS would be a good manager for half the PL but I can't see us ever winning a league with him because we are so poor at breaking down teams.
I won’t argue with any of that. I will argue with people who seem to lay the blame solely on the coaches with such conviction though.
Me personally, I form my opinions on the things I know about rather than the things I don’t. I know some players aren’t good enough, I know some positions need improving, I know some players just aren’t effective against the kind of opposition we’re coming up against. I don’t know what the coaches are or aren’t doing right and probably won’t until we fix some of the problems in the team. Obviously, it’s all very opinionated of course.
Well that's it yeah, with players it's far easier to not only form an opinion, but to then document evidence to back up your opinion. With coaching staff it's totally subjective and very hard to back up any opinions you may have formed. It leads to nauseating debates on here with people convinced that their opinions carry more weight than others.
We played well today against a very disciplined team.
You can only play with the players you have, no one is coming in and playing sexy football with Fred and mctom as your midfield pair.
A raw talent in Greenwood up top and James on the rw
the team played well today and deserved the win
Yeah he will but can see it being for our neighbours
Honestly if Haaland joins City and Pep stays there for the foreseeable, the title will be theirs for a while longer. We can’t afford to miss out on him.
As bad as we have been at times, anyone who doesn't think the answer to that question is a resounding yes clearly needs their memory jogged.
It probably is better but it's delusional to think it's miles better most of the time. I think Ole benefits from still being here and a sense of loyalty that naturally instills in fans and the fact he's an ex-player and people use the games where we have played well to defend his style of play. I also think a LOT of that is on his first 10 games or so where we did look good. If you start from the end of that initial run then I'm sorry but we've too often looked tumescent and uncreative, punctuated by the occasional performance like the other week vs City that tricks people into thinking there's been a substantial improvement.
The gap between how we play most matches now compared to how we played in his first few games at the club is much bigger than the gap between how we usually play now and what it was like under LVG et al.
So yeah there are periods of Ole's management that are far better than what we saw under previous managers but we're kidding ourselves if we don't accept the fact the first few games are doing practically all of the leg work in that equation.
The gap between how we play most matches now compared to how we played in his first few games at the club is much bigger than the gap between how we usually play now and what it was like under LVG et al.
So yeah there are periods of Ole's management that are far better than what we saw under previous managers but we're kidding ourselves if we don't accept the fact the first few games are doing practically all of the leg work in that equation.
This.
We also have to keep in mind that Rashford and Bruno are absoloutely knackered, Martial has been diabolical most of the season, Pogba and Cavani has been on and off injured and Greenwood has a bad case of second season syndrome.
When you consider that its no wonder we have looked slow and pedestrian at times, and that has nothing to do with coaching nor the quality of the players
The way we play is under examination not whether we win individual matches. If we were constantly creating chances, looking a threat, dominating possession and playing well then sure 'coaches don't fluff headers' might work, but that isn't the case. The criticism of how we're coached seems to be based around the fact we often don't create much, we often don't play well (even if we end up getting the result) we don't really have a style of play and there rarely ever seems to be a plan B tactically. With very few exceptions we will start the game with the same basic set-up, formation and approach as when we started with most subs being like for like changes.
That isn't down to someone fluffing a header, nor really is it right to overlook it even if the header isn't fluffed.
The old adage is that not playing well but getting results is a positive. And that's true but it's almost always used in the context of the clubs at the top as a way to praise resolve and determination when an otherwise excellent team is going through a rough patch. It should be something in the arsenal of a top side to use occasionally or in short spells. It shouldn't be the norm and I'm sorry but for us it's been the norm for two years. Those initial dozen games, or whatever it was, remains the peak of how we played post-Ferugson. Since then, since he's been able to bring his own people in and has had time to set up the coaching arrangement he wants it hasn't improved. In fact in terms of our style and approach - the entertainment factor if you will - it's markedly worse and I don't think if you put those first dozen games aside there is much difference to how we played under Van Gaal and Mourinho
"We're second in the league"
We finished 2nd under Jose and we won the Europa League. LVG won the FA Cup. These things are either mitigations for the drab football we play or they're not. They can't only be considered mitigations to the criticism unless you've already been fired.
That isn't down to someone fluffing a header, nor really is it right to overlook it even if the header isn't fluffed.
The old adage is that not playing well but getting results is a positive. And that's true but it's almost always used in the context of the clubs at the top as a way to praise resolve and determination when an otherwise excellent team is going through a rough patch. It should be something in the arsenal of a top side to use occasionally or in short spells. It shouldn't be the norm and I'm sorry but for us it's been the norm for two years. Those initial dozen games, or whatever it was, remains the peak of how we played post-Ferugson. Since then, since he's been able to bring his own people in and has had time to set up the coaching arrangement he wants it hasn't improved. In fact in terms of our style and approach - the entertainment factor if you will - it's markedly worse and I don't think if you put those first dozen games aside there is much difference to how we played under Van Gaal and Mourinho
"We're second in the league"
We finished 2nd under Jose and we won the Europa League. LVG won the FA Cup. These things are either mitigations for the drab football we play or they're not. They can't only be considered mitigations to the criticism unless you've already been fired.
Yeah under Jose it was full of possessional, high press, attacking football. It was joy to watch.
The glorious days of parking the bus against 19th placed Middlesbrough
Im watching the exhilarating free flowing attacking football Jose has Spurs playing currently and feeling sad we let him go..............