Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin

[VanKenny]

Messi wasn’t 10/10 in 2009. He wasn’t even MOTM.

He wasn’t rated MOTM in 2015 either never mind being 10/10.

I didnt say he had a 10/10 performance in 2015, i said he was MOTM according to whoscored.com, and he was, i just double checked. On 2009 you are right, he was outperformed by Xavi according to other news sources, as whoscored only goes as back as 2009/2010. Again, purposefully misinterpreting my post to try to defend your stand, deflecting the main point and focusing on whatever you can clinge to in order to disprove it.

The point doesnt change, CR7 performances in finals doesnt come close to Messi's. If you are using other sources than whoscored for your ratings, then by any means use them to try to disprove this point. You can use your critical thinking though without needing to see a news report to realize Messi has performed in finals to a much higher level than CR7 has.



edit: btw, i checked that Juventuz link you posted where supposedly mostly every juve fan favours CR7 in there, and granted i didnt read all 900+ pages, but i did read a few and to say its a 50/50 on favour/against Ronaldo, would be VERY generous. Certainly not "mostly everyone" is opposed to the Juve fan's opinion that was posted on the previous page ITT.

I mean, if you guys want to live in a different reality, by all means do it. I dont see what frustrates you about CR7 being worldwide recognized "only" as a top 5 player of all time, as opposed to a GOAT.

 

[Bepi]

Your last paragraph illustrates to me some strong contempt you hold towards Ronaldo for joining.

Agnelli is the CEO, he gambled, we lost. Football is still a team sport, albeit there are different models. Ronaldo is a square peg more suited for the Zidanes & Pavones galactico model than our plucky underdogs, sum-more-than-the-parts round hole. Again, Agnelli is the CEO, he gambled, we lost. Fortunately for us, incoming youngsters like Demiral, Kulusevski, McKennie, Chiesa show that the club has not gone bad completely in that sense, not yet.

 

[MrEleson]

I didnt say he had a 10/10 performance in 2015, i said he was MOTM according to whoscored.com, and he was, i just double checked. On 2009 you are right, he was outperformed by Xavi according to other news sources, as whoscored only goes as back as 2009/2010. Again, purposefully misinterpreting my post to try to defend your stand, deflecting the main point and focusing on whatever you can clinge to in order to disprove it.

The point doesnt change, CR7 performances in finals doesnt come close to Messi's. If you are using other sources than whoscored for your ratings, then by any means use them to try to disprove this point. You can use your critical thinking though without needing to see a news report to realize Messi has performed in finals to a much higher level than CR7 has.

Yes, Messi has generally been better in finals than CR but you’re grossly overrating his performances with all the 10/10 stuff. And in 2015, UEFA officially awarded the MOTM to Iniesta so that’s as close as you can get. I don’t know anything about what whoscored rated. In any case, if other sources can rate other players higher than him then he wasn’t head and shoulders above the rest like you’re trying to depict. I don’t even think he was much better than Ronaldo in the 2009 final that they both played although he was on the winning side.

Agnelli is the CEO, he gambled, we lost. Football is still a team sport, albeit there are different models. Ronaldo is a square peg more suited for the Zidanes & Pavones galactico model than our plucky underdogs, sum-more-than-the-parts round hole. Again, Agnelli is the CEO, he gambled, we lost. Fortunately for us, incoming youngsters like Demiral, Kulusevski, McKennie, Chiesa show that the club has not gone bad completely in that sense, not yet.

Fair enough. Yes, I agree the club made a mistake in his signing. He wasn’t the right fit for where the squad was at.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

I'm still waiting for your proof that he fought Alonso

I'm still waiting for you proof that Messi forced Ibrahimovic out of Barcelona. But neither this nor that has anything to do with the fact that you just made something up again, as usual, and got called out on it.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Messi's 10/10 performances against United on the two finals, and his MOTM on the final against Juventus, that alone completely destroys anything that CR7 has done in any final ever by A LOT.

Cristiano Ronaldo has generally been awful in Champions League finals. So as good as Messi was against Juventus, It would have taken no more than a pedestrian showing to eclipse Ronaldo's performances.

 

[talking robot]

I think we're more likely to end up with Ronaldo next season than Haaland.

 

[The Corinthian]

Cristiano Ronaldo has generally been awful in Champions League finals. So as good as Messi was against Juventus, It would have taken no more than a pedestrian showing to eclipse Ronaldo's performances.

Ronaldo won the 2017 man of the match award, and the 2008 fans' man of the match award. The same awards won by Messi in 2011 (MotM) and 2009 (Fans' MotM).

More revisionism by Messi fans it seems.

 

[Cloud7]

You know, it is very difficult to have proper conversations over here about non-United, and more in general, non-PL teams because the majority of fans, rightfully so, do not follow foreign football on a day-by-day basis and therefore just write lines because of sympathy, prejudices or defining episodes taken from single games on the biggest stage.

So it seems pretty strange to me, an hardcore Juve fan, to be told that I am being disingenuos in comparing players contribution to the fortunes of the team I follow 24/7? Really?

Higuain was instrumental, with Dybala, in getting Juve to the 2017 CL final, and in winning at least two scudettos with decisive goals against our most direct competitors Napoli and Inter. Am I saying that he is overall better than Ronaldo? Nope, of course, yet he did more for the team, he was a functional part in a well-oiled and well-drilled machine, which is historically trademark Juve.

Ronaldo cannibalized my team financially, lowered dramatically our conversion rate, exterminated any other goalscoring threat (from set pieces, most notably) to accommodate his narcissistic push for his own records. May I be royally pissed off for these three wasted years, with a failed all-in? May I be able to understand the nuances of my team better than the claques and the fanboys actually trolling or reinforcing even more distorted narratives?

It is quite funny to me that we have United fans on here arguing with a Juventus fan about the impact a Juventus player has had on the Juventus team.

 

[Lay]

It is quite funny to me that we have United fans on here arguing with a Juventus fan about the impact a Juventus player has had on the Juventus team.

That’s the Ronaldo fanboyism. Imagine Ronaldo comes back to United? After every poor Ronaldo game we will hear how the team is shit, everyone sucks and we would be relegated without him

 

[Water Melon]

I think we're more likely to end up with Ronaldo next season than Haaland.

Add Pogba to sweeten the deal in the process.

 

[Gehrman]

Ronaldo won the 2017 man of the match award, and the 2008 fans' man of the match award. The same awards won by Messi in 2011 (MotM) and 2009 (Fans' MotM).

More revisionism by Messi fans it seems.

I agree, even though I favour Messi, Ronaldo scored our only goal in the 2008 final, looked our biggest threat in the 2009 final and scored 2 fine goals in the 2017 final. He might have been fairly invisble in a few them, but to say that he was crap in all them is hyperbole.

 

[The Corinthian]

I agree, even though I favour Messi, Ronaldo scored our only goal in the 2008 final, looked our biggest threat in the 2009 final and scored 2 fine goals in the 2017 final. He might have been fairly invisble in a few them, but to say that he was crap in all them is hyperbole.

I don't get the needless shit slinging just to make one look better.

Both are going to go down as all time greats.

If you read the last few pages of this thread, it's Messi fans arguing as to why a 36 year old (!) isn't as good as he used to be. Well, no shit Sherlock.

One Juventus fan said he blames Ronaldo for the financial situation of Juventus, which is just a ridiculous take. If a club is run irresponsibly, is it the fault of the players or the people running the club?

 

[Gehrman]

I don't get the needless shit slinging just to make one look better.

Both are going to go down as all time greats.

If you read the last few pages of this thread, it's Messi fans arguing as to why a 36 year old (!) isn't as good as he used to be. Well, no shit Sherlock.

One Juventus fan said he blames Ronaldo for the financial situation of Juventus, which is just a ridiculous take. If a club is run irresponsibly, is it the fault of the players or the people running the club?

Agree with everything. Ronaldo is still performing very well for a 36 years old and looks like he can easily go till he's 40 despite not being the player he was in his prime. And yes on Juventus financial situation, that's on the manager and board of the club. Juventus have also spunked a fair amount of money on transfer and wages since buying Ronaldo on other players with a fair few of them not living up to their pricetag and wages. I'd agree though that there seems to be a perception that Juventus has turned into Ronaldo F.C and it seems to be more about whether Ronaldo can break records rather than being about the whole team. On the other hand it's the same with Messi atm, because despite his age, he's the only player in the team who's world class.

 

[La Vecchia Signora]

I disagree, mainly because of Pirlo, his inexperience and his philosophy. If allegri was still there then yes it could happen. Allegrinis smarter and more results driven. On paper Dybala, Chiesa, Cuadrado and Bernardecshi should between them have enough flair and creativity to create chances and unlock defences for Ronaldo and Morata to put the ball away.

Personally Ronaldo's best chance of winning another CL trophy is to join PSG. They and City are hell bent on winning that trophy and have the deepest pockets.

I don’t think pirlo will stay if we don’t win any trophy this season and the chances are not enough because against Atalanta in coppa Italy is hard one and I am not sure we will overtake Inter and AC Milan in the scudetto. So I hope we find a good manager next year and creative Midfielders.

 

[Bebestation]

I don’t think pirlo will stay if we don’t win any trophy this season and the chances are not enough because against Atalanta in coppa Italy is hard one and I am not sure we will overtake Inter and AC Milan in the scudetto. So I hope we find a good manager next year and creative Midfielders.

I think he has been a crap manager.

Who do you think will replace Pirlo? What are the links and who do you want?

 

[Skills]

That’s the Ronaldo fanboyism. Imagine Ronaldo comes back to United? After every poor Ronaldo game we will hear how the team is shit, everyone sucks and we would be relegated without him

It'll be the ultimate showdown of managerial fanboyism vs player fanboyism. All on the same stage

 

[Carl]

I think we're more likely to end up with Ronaldo next season than Haaland.

Me too, and it would be a great alternative.

If people genuinely believe in Greenwood as our next long term #9 then signing Ronaldo for a year or 2 makes loads of sense.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It'll be the ultimate showdown of managerial fanboyism vs player fanboyism. All on the same stage

Part of me now would love to see it happen just for this.

The Ole fans vs the Ronaldo fans on here would be box office.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi's 10/10 performances against United on the two finals, and his MOTM on the final against Juventus, that alone completely destroys anything that CR7 has done in any final ever by A LOT.

You are making yourself looks like a total fool here. Let's do it this way:

First of all, Ronaldo has won 5 CL final, Messi has only won 3. Ronaldo wins

Secondly, Ronaldo has scored 4 goals in CL final, Messi only scored 2. Ronaldo wins again.

Thirdly, as someone has already mentioned, Messi has only won 2 MOTM award (official and fans), Ronaldo has also won 2 (official and fans). This is the only one they tie.

Its clear who is better in CL final overall, to everyone who is not blind, except you and some other random fanboy.

So yeh, Messi have completely destroy anything Ronaldo had done in any final ever by alot in my arse.

 

[Raredaredevil]

I'm not his fan but even I feel sorry for him and he is just wasting his final years with Juve. Juventus has sacrificed their Juve-ness with him. He has scored lots of goals but has he really improved the team since he joined? Juve is further away from winning the CL with him now than before he joined. Also Pirlo has to be the worst manager in Juve in my recent memory.

 

[Marcosdeto]

You are making yourself looks like a total fool here. Let's do it this way:

First of all, Ronaldo has won 5 CL final, Messi has only won 3. Ronaldo wins

Secondly, Ronaldo has scored 4 goals in CL final, Messi only scored 2. Ronaldo wins again.

Thirdly, as someone has already mentioned, Messi has only won 2 MOTM award (official and fans), Ronaldo has also won 2 (official and fans). This is the only one they tie.

Its clear who is better in CL final overall, to everyone who is not blind, except you and some other random fanboy.

So yeh, Messi have completely destroy anything Ronaldo had done in any final ever by alot in my arse.

You have a lot of nerve to accuse anyone of “fanboyism”, redronaldo

 

[Acrobat7]

I'm not his fan but even I feel sorry for him and he is just wasting his final years with Juve. Juventus has sacrificed their Juve-ness with him. He has scored lots of goals but has he really improved the team since he joined? Juve is further away from winning the CL with him now than before he joined. Also Pirlo has to be the worst manager in Juve in my recent memory.

It was a bad transfer for both sides excluding Ronaldo‘s bank account

 

[De Portago]

It was a bad transfer for both sides excluding Ronaldo‘s bank account

The more or less only reason for the transfer itself was said bank account. All this tripe about challenges, proving in another league etc. are there to cover the simple fact that he moved to a team in Europe that was willing to shell out 60M euros per year as opposed to ~35 or so he was earning at Real Madrid. Had he got that raise from Real he'd probably still be in Madrid.

 

[Gehrman]

I think they missed out on whatever chance they have to win the league this yesterday.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You have a lot of nerve to accuse anyone of “fanboyism”, redronaldo

Why not? You think he making any sense? Or you just saying this for some trivial reason (such as my username), regardless of the argument?

 

[La Vecchia Signora]

I think he has been a crap manager.

Who do you think will replace Pirlo? What are the links and who do you want?

Pep if possible.

Allegri. His style is not attractive but he is a winner. 2 times UCL runner up. He needed a player like Ronaldo in those finals.

We also need two creative Midfielders.

 

[Bebestation]

Pep if possible.

Allegri. His style is not attractive but he is a winner. 2 times UCL runner up. He needed a player like Ronaldo in those finals.

We also need two creative Midfielders.

How would you feel about Zidane managing Ronaldo at Juventus?

 

[Reapersoul20]

Lads, can ye stop being complete gowls for like five minutes please?

Ronaldo. Good player. Messi. Good player. In finals, both good player. Same, same. But different.

I wonder how much CR7 would cost United this summer.

 

[T_Model101]

Lads, can ye stop being complete gowls for like five minutes please?

Ronaldo. Good player. Messi. Good player. In finals, both good player. Same. same. But different.

I wonder how much CR7 would cost United this summer.

I suspect he would cost £20-25M as this would be his value on the books for Juventus.
I can't see him moving until his contract expires tbh, we won't be paying him what Juve do. At least I hope not...

 

[La Vecchia Signora]

How would you feel about Zidane managing Ronaldo at Juventus?

That would be a dream come true. I wanted Zidane after allegri but he went back to Madrid. I want Zidane with or without ronaldo.

 

[Gehrman]

I suspect he would cost £20-25M as this would be his value on the books for Juventus.
I can't see him moving until his contract expires tbh, we won't be paying him what Juve do. At least I hope not...

I'd definitely take Ronaldo, but he doesn't seem like to the type to go back. Would definitely take him over Martial. He'd probably break our wages though.

 

[VanKenny]

You are making yourself looks like a total fool here. Let's do it this way:

First of all, Ronaldo has won 5 CL final, Messi has only won 3. Ronaldo wins

Secondly, Ronaldo has scored 4 goals in CL final, Messi only scored 2. Ronaldo wins again.

Thirdly, as someone has already mentioned, Messi has only won 2 MOTM award (official and fans), Ronaldo has also won 2 (official and fans). This is the only one they tie.

Its clear who is better in CL final overall, to everyone who is not blind, except you and some other random fanboy.

So yeh, Messi have completely destroy anything Ronaldo had done in any final ever by alot in my arse.

My argument was never that Messi has won more CL finals than CR7, or scored more CL goals than him, so if you completely misinterpeting my post makes me a fool, guess thats what i am .

My argument was that Messi has performed better in CL finals than CR7 has, and the level Messi performed against United was something that CR7 has never shown on any CL final, not even close.

If you are really going to post ITT with a serious face that CR7 has performed equally or better than Messi on CL finals, then i guess i may as well be talking to a wall, and a wall inside Ronaldo's house while we are at it.

 

[Jericho]

I suspect he would cost £20-25M as this would be his value on the books for Juventus.
I can't see him moving until his contract expires tbh, we won't be paying him what Juve do. At least I hope not...

I don't see how he'd only cost that, that would be a steal. He guarantees goals and is a huge global star. You might as well ignore the age when it comes to Ronaldo.

 

[NasirTimothy]

My argument was never that Messi has won more CL finals than CR7, or scored more CL goals than him, so if you completely misinterpeting my post makes me a fool, guess thats what i am .

My argument was that Messi has performed better in CL finals than CR7 has, and the level Messi performed against United was something that CR7 has never shown on any CL final, not even close.

If you are really going to post ITT with a serious face that CR7 has performed equally or better than Messi on CL finals, then i guess i may as well be talking to a wall, and a wall inside Ronaldo's house while we are at it.

I must confess, the bolded bit made me chuckle

 

[Pocho]

My argument was never that Messi has won more CL finals than CR7, or scored more CL goals than him, so if you completely misinterpeting my post makes me a fool, guess thats what i am .

My argument was that Messi has performed better in CL finals than CR7 has, and the level Messi performed against United was something that CR7 has never shown on any CL final, not even close.

If you are really going to post ITT with a serious face that CR7 has performed equally or better than Messi on CL finals, then i guess i may as well be talking to a wall, and a wall inside Ronaldo's house while we are at it.

He is still saying that Messi won 3 CLs so don't expect much

 

[Daysleeper]

Why not? You think he making any sense? Or you just saying this for some trivial reason (such as my username), regardless of the argument?

the average Messi performance in a CL final is better than the average Ronaldo final in CL. Messi has 4 CL‘s not true, or so we also remove Ronaldo’s euro final since he got injured?
Ronaldo having more goals in the final to Messi is meaningless seeing as how Messi’s 2015 performance in the final (without goals) is better than any Ronaldo CL final bar 2017.

 

[RedRonaldo]

My argument was never that Messi has won more CL finals than CR7, or scored more CL goals than him, so if you completely misinterpeting my post makes me a fool, guess thats what i am .

My argument was that Messi has performed better in CL finals than CR7 has, and the level Messi performed against United was something that CR7 has never shown on any CL final, not even close.

If you are really going to post ITT with a serious face that CR7 has performed equally or better than Messi on CL finals, then i guess i may as well be talking to a wall, and a wall inside Ronaldo's house while we are at it.

Well for a start, I never said Ronaldo performs better. All I am simply saying is, he has bigger impact with more goals and more wins and same no. of motm, which already does more than enough to refute your totally stupid and ignorant claim that Messi has completely destroy anything Ronaldo had “done” in CL final.

 

[RedRonaldo]

the average Messi performance in a CL final is better than the average Ronaldo final in CL. Messi has 4 CL‘s not true, or so we also remove Ronaldo’s euro final since he got injured?
Ronaldo having more goals in the final to Messi is meaningless seeing as how Messi’s 2015 performance in the final (without goals) is better than any Ronaldo CL final bar 2017.

You think goals and wins in cup final is meaningless, whereas performances is the only thing which matters in competitive football?
You should go watch a different sports, maybe indoor 5 vs 5 exhibition games, or some freestyle shite. Football is not for you if that’s your only criteria.

Also, the discussion with VanKenny is only about CL final if you read further back, but not CL as a whole (of course if we count CL as a whole Ronaldo would have even stronger claim as CL GOAT. But VanKenny doesn’t want to talk about it for obvious reason so the discussion was only on CL final to suit his agenda).

Truth is, Messi only appears and won in 3 final. You can’t really count him 4, although he still got a medal only for playing some games in group stages, and a sub appearance in one last 16 game.

Don’t get me wrong, Messi is a great player in CL overall too, but that’s off topic here. I always rate Messi as GOAT too you know. But the whole discussion and issue I have with him being, he stated Messi has completely destroy Ronaldo in CL final, based on his 2 motm performances, I am simply saying Ronaldo had more goals and wins in final, and same no. of motm performances, to refute his stupid claim. You just can’t completely destroy someone in the final, when the person had scored more goals and won more games in the final than you.

 

[Daysleeper]

You think goals and wins in cup final is meaningless, whereas performances is the only thing which matters in competitive football?
You should go watch a different sports, maybe indoor 5 vs 5 exhibition games, or some freestyle shite. Football is not for you if that’s your only criteria.

Also, the discussion with VanKenny is only about CL final if you read further back, but not CL as a whole (of course if we count CL as a whole Ronaldo would have even stronger claim as CL GOAT. But VanKenny doesn’t want to talk about it for obvious reason so the discussion was only on CL final to suit his agenda).

Truth is, Messi only appears and won in 3 final. You can’t really count him 4, although he still got a medal only for playing some games in group stages, and a sub appearance in one last 16 game.

Don’t get me wrong, Messi is a great player in CL overall too, but that’s off topic here. The whole discussion I have with him being, he stated Messi has completely destroy Ronaldo in CL final, based on his 2 motm performances, I am simply saying Ronaldo had more goals and wins in final, and same no. of motm performances, to refute his stupid claim. You just can’t completely destroy someone in the final, when the person had scored more goals and won more games in the final than you.

I do think the average performance in CL finals for Messi is much better than Ronaldo. Maybe someone saying destroy is harsh for sure, and while obviously goals matter, I think outside of 2017 and 2009 Ronaldo has been very mediocre in CL final. Still the greatest CL player though.

 

[Raredaredevil]

I don't see how he'd only cost that, that would be a steal. He guarantees goals and is a huge global star. You might as well ignore the age when it comes to Ronaldo.

I'd be surprised if anyone pays for more than 50 million for him. I know with Ronaldo, age is never a factor but all football clubs are businesses and no businessman in their rational logical mind will pay that much unless you're Chinese.