Well the main problem with it is that there's no such thing as establishing top four for a start.Do you disagree then? That it's not important to establish top 4?
That's not where Arsenal went wrong.
It is not now that counts, it is the future. Are you really optimistic for next season? We are stagnating big time. Up and down is the only consistency in our performancesYes I'm sure Liverpool, Leicester, Chelsea, Spurs etc are all looking up the table laughing at us in second.
Milan are in stiches good team, a crapping their way right out of Europe
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I generally reserve my thoughts about the coming season until the current one is done and we see how the transfer window shapes up. That said we do have some exciting young players who hopefully continue to improve and others who might break into the first team, so that's always a source of optimism for the future.It is not now that counts, it is the future. Are you really optimistic for next season? We are stagnating big time. Up and down is the only consistency
Top four is a comfort zone. You only hear it from clubs like Spurs and Arsenal.Do you disagree then? That it's not important to establish top 4?
That's not where Arsenal went wrong.
And Sanchez.Fred was a 50 mill player! He should have been the finished article anyway not need improving to average. Whoever scouted and signed off on him ought to be sacked.
I bet you predicted we'd be destined for a finish outside top 4 this season too.Well the main problem with it is that there's no such thing as establishing top four for a start.
Liverpool are not an established top four club this season and they won the fecking title last year.
Even if we finish second this season, predicting the shit summer we're about to have, I have absolutely no faith in us finishing top four next season.
Probably never. Ole was ecstatic after that West Ham win because he knew it sealed top four and new three year contact. That's our new standard.For those who are saying if we get top four (which we probably will, barring something catastrophic happening) then he absolutely deserves it, when will this no longer be enough? When will "well, he got top four so he deserves another chance" no longer cut it for you, as a fan. Not talking about the owners, etc.
Next season? Just interested when it's no longer good enough to merely finish in the top four.
And it is usually once we finish outside top 4 that we invest more. Top 4 means happiness and we are passive.Well the main problem with it is that there's no such thing as establishing top four for a start.
Liverpool are not an established top four club this season and they won the fecking title last year.
Even if we finish second this season, predicting the shit summer we're about to have, I have absolutely no faith in us finishing top four next season.
That is exactly it. We could kick on from now with the right appointment. It wont get better under Ole. He hasnt got it in him to make us win again. He showed us what he can do the last 2 and a half years, and thats about it.The ship has been steadied and the toxic atmosphere fostered by Mourinhho, has been dispelled.
He's arguably done the job he was brought in to do, but this is about as good as it gets under him in my view - he's not the person to take us back to the summit, domestically or in Europe, and neither are we likely to play exciting, high calibre football for any prolonged spell under him. There would be no shame in replacing him with a superior coach this summer.
Martial messing up was just a few indicents across 5 minutes in a 90 minute game, where we were largely impotent otherwise. If we’re just going to blame the players, Rashford blew an unbelievable opportunity before half time on the counter as well. Maguire did no look defending for Suso’s goal. Williams was appalling and AWB on the other side had the worst defensive performance probably of his entire career so far against Reguilon.its Ole's failing that Martial missed a shit ton of chances which would have killed Sevilla off? The players aren't good enough and until they are we're gonna be destined to just be fighting for top 4 spots
Yep but those covid testers now drive Ferraris, it’s the Mansour wayDidn't that only happen after City fake sick noted their way into an extra few days off because of a supposed COVID outbreak which didn't actually occur?
Sorry but I think you're way off the mark with this.Top four is a comfort zone. You only hear it from clubs like Spurs and Arsenal.
You don't hear teams aiming to win the title going on about needing to be top four or top four being a target or top four being fundamental to a future title challenge.
Regular top four finishes mean nothing. It is either you are good enough for a title challenge or you aren't.
At what point do we have to raise our ambitions in trying to move onto challenging for the title?As it should be. Being stable in the top 4 is what the club needs in order to mount a title challenge. Something we haven't had post Sir Alex.
I disagree. He probably doesn't deserved to be sacked but I don't think that should be the benchmark for offering him a new contract. Offering a manager a new contract because they haven't been terrible also sends the wrong message that if you do just enough, it will be rewarded.You have to either renew a managers contract or sack him. Having an expiring contract means uncertainty for the players which will impact things on the pitch.
He doesn't deserve the sack so a renewal is the only option IMO. Renewing the contract also makes it more likely they will back him in the transfer window.
Not really the right time to compare given the pandemicWell the main problem with it is that there's no such thing as establishing top four for a start.
Liverpool are not an established top four club this season and they won the fecking title last year.
Even if we finish second this season, predicting the shit summer we're about to have, I have absolutely no faith in us finishing top four next season.
When we establish top 4. Then it's the true test to see how you push on. This is where Arsenal failed dismally and failed to show ambition.At what point do we have to raise our ambitions in trying to move onto challenging for the title?
I disagree. He probably doesn't deserved to be sacked but I don't think that should be the benchmark for offering him a new contract. Offering a manager a new contract because they haven't been terrible also sends the wrong message that if you do just enough, it will be rewarded.
I think also think the uncertainty factor is just optics rather than anything substantive. I can't say I have much confidence in it but the new footballing structure should put us in a place where the clubs 'backing' isn't dependent on the managers status.
We haven't even managed back to back CL campaigns...At what point do we have to raise our ambitions in trying to move onto challenging for the title?
But what is establishing top 4? 3 seasons in a row? 5 seasons in a row?When we establish top 4. Then it's the true test to see how you push on. This is where Arsenal failed dismally and failed to show ambition.
For me, it will be when he has the players at his disposal who can raise the ceiling of this squad - by that I mean proper first teamers who can relegate the likes of McFred to squad player status. He's done wonders with a squad that is predominantly comprised of cast offs from Jose's time at the club and academy kids.For those who are saying if we get top four (which we probably will, barring something catastrophic happening) then he absolutely deserves it, when will this no longer be enough? When will "well, he got top four so he deserves another chance" no longer cut it for you, as a fan. Not talking about the owners, etc.
Next season? Just interested when it's no longer good enough to merely finish in the top four.
You don't hear it because top 4 is a given for title challenging teams. You don't hear teams that regularly finish outside the CL places (us for 7 years) challenging for titles. People seem to think we're already running before we can walk.Top four is a comfort zone. You only hear it from clubs like Spurs and Arsenal.
You don't hear teams aiming to win the title going on about needing to be top four or top four being a target or top four being fundamental to a future title challenge.
Regular top four finishes mean nothing. It is either you are good enough for a title challenge or you aren't.
I don't disagree unless the club feels he can take us further.But what is establishing top 4? 3 seasons in a row? 5 seasons in a row?
To me if Ole takes us to a comfortable top 4 position next season (3 seasons in a row) without challenging for the league or CL, surely he has done his job in establishing us as a top 4 side and it would make sense to part ways there.
Well, it's looking likely that he's going to sign a contract extension, so you would think that he has asked for assurances from the owners that the funds will be made available. Otherwise, why sign it if you know you're just going to be hung out to dry.For me, it will be when he has the players at his disposal who can raise the ceiling of this squad - by that I mean proper first teamers who can relegate the likes of McFred to squad player status. He's done wonders with a squad that is predominantly comprised of cast offs from Jose's time at the club and academy kids.
My worry is that he'll never get those players and we're going to be hoping for the kids to step up (unlikely) or we're going to be stuck in a perennial fight for Top 4.
Even if we just get 2 of the 4 big holes in the squad filled, I'd be delighted and would be expecting a much bigger push towards the top two. If we don't get those players however, then I'll begrudgingly accept Top 4.
Yes, I'm beginning to think when he came in he didn't just need to steady the ship but right a sinking one.That said the club really needed some stability and I feel he's brought that. Some of our fans seem to have very short memories.
A better severance package?Well, it's looking likely that he's going to sign a contract extension, so you would think that he has asked for assurances from the owners that the funds will be made available. Otherwise, why sign it if you know you're just going to be hung out to dry.
Agreed Doc. When you look where we were when he arrived to where we are now it's night and day. Not just on the pitch but off it. The investment in youth has been very impressive and the restructuring of the staff, all be it too slow for some, is gradually taking shape.Yes, I'm beginning to think when he came in he didn't just need to steady the ship but right a sinking one.
I think he's a fan first and foremost and this is his dream job. I don't think any other manager would have carved as much out of this season as he did after such a terrible summer window where it really did feel like he was being set up to fail (arguably, it was two summer windows cos the first one was a shocker which everyone has since forgotten because he somehow still reached Top 4).Well, it's looking likely that he's going to sign a contract extension, so you would think that he has asked for assurances from the owners that the funds will be made available. Otherwise, why sign it if you know you're just going to be hung out to dry.
Well, yes. That makes sense from a financial POV, but I was referring more to the football side of it. Surely he would want assurances from the owners that the funds will be made available before putting his signature to paper. Perhaps I'm being very gullible and naive here, but I would like to think that the financials come a distant second to Ole over the actual success of this club. I'm sure he would want guarantees from the board that the money will be there.A better severance package?
Yeah, this is what I would like to believe, also. I pretty much said this in another comment above.I think he's a fan first and foremost and this is his dream job. I don't think any other manager would have carved as much out of this season as he did after such a terrible summer window where it really did feel like he was being set up to fail (arguably, it was two summer windows cos the first one was a shocker which everyone has since forgotten because he somehow still reached Top 4).
In those instances, I think someone who comes from outside the club would have allowed the situation to get out of hand and got their pay out, but with Ole, you can tell he wants to succeed irrespective of what little backing he gets from the board.
I was being facetious, to be fair. But I agree he must have some assurance from the club that things are going to get better. Maybe the appointment of Murtough has helped that.Well, yes. That makes sense from a financial POV, but I was referring more to the football side of it. Surely he would want assurances from the owners that the funds will be made available before putting his signature to paper. Perhaps I'm being very gullible and naive here, but I would think that the financials come a distant second to Ole over the actual success of this club. I'm sure he would want guarantees from the board that the money will be there.
I mean, what they say and what they do are two very different things of course.
This pretty much sums up where I am. I'm not against the new contract, I just feel like the ceiling has probably been reached under him. He's done a fantastic job really, but I don't truly believe the next step is achievable with him and his current staff. But hopefully he's well backed in the summer (which I must confess I'm less confident about), and we can see what next season brings.I don't disagree unless the club feels he can take us further.
I have said quite vocally on here I think he's done a good job but I have my own reservations as to if he can take us to the next level. The fact we have got to so many semi finals without success is another worry in that regard.
That said the club really needed some stability and I feel he's brought that. Some of our fans seem to have very short memories.
Not before the transfer window played out as it did. But when it came to deadline day and we were struggling to get a bargain basement deal for Telles over the line and panic-signing a 34 year old on a free transfer... yeh I had no faith in a top four finish at that point. Probably very few did.I bet you predicted we'd be destined for a finish outside top 4 this season too.
Underperforming based on what? One away loss in a year? We’re second only to City who have the best coach in the world armed with a blank cheque. Fair enough if you aren’t happy with Ole or think we could be doing better, but I don’t think you can say we’re below where we should be.A settled under performing camp, yeah lets not rock that boat.
So it’s luck that everyone else is shit?Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Leicester have all gone backwards to varying degrees from last season. We've stayed more or less the same performance and results wise. That sort of good fortune isn't going to happen again, even with a constrained transfer market due to covid. For starters Liverpool will bounce back from this season and Chelsea have already massively improved under Tuchel without any transfers.
It depends on the club and where they are/what they're looking to do.Top four is a comfort zone. You only hear it from clubs like Spurs and Arsenal.
You don't hear teams aiming to win the title going on about needing to be top four or top four being a target or top four being fundamental to a future title challenge.
Regular top four finishes mean nothing. It is either you are good enough for a title challenge or you aren't.
How can you not, we've spent nearly £1bn on players since 2013, Ole has spent £230-240m himself, both sums are staggering amounts of money to only win 3 trophies in almost 8 years and our current manager has yet to win a SF.How have you come to this conclusion?
