Idxomer
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The big 4.
Coaching, System, Squad management, and inconsistent players.
Coaching, System, Squad management, and inconsistent players.
Nice argument, well stated. I am all for bringing in players that would work in our system. But the coaches must also see the basic flaws that we can see with some of our players. I am not going to name people because I don’t want to turn it into one of those discussions.And how do you determine, what is "the right player"? I think, that's one of the key distinctions here. For me there are two ways: go for good players and try to integrate them in your team (let's call it the Galactico approach) or set a specific system (formation, way of playing, specific roles and tasks for players) and bring players in, that fit the profile (call it system-driven approach). Both have their merits and it depends on the situation you are in as a manager, which way to choose because it seems more favourable.
In our current situation, it feels like we're kind of on a Galactico approach, seeing DVB arrive, bringing Maguire and then talk Upamecano, talks about Ismaila Sarr and Jack Grealish. All are good players but very different. Even with Bruno I feel, he got all the freedom to play his game at United which is one of the explanations for his fantastic return. This is an alright approach but sometimes it doesn't feel very sophisticated.
In the long run, that is going to be problematic (in my eyes) that is why I'd be leaning more to a more systematic approach, setting up specific roles and tasks to then analyze players skillsets and how they would fit into the team. I also think, this will make bringing new players in easier, because they don't have to play 100 matches first to understand how the team and their teammates works in specific situations because you already know the plans and patterns and you just have to recognize it on the field.
I think, with that in mind, it is interesting to look at Liverpool. They created a system based on a midfield of three workhorses. The level of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho is certainly higher than this of Fred and McTominay but by how much in terms of offense? (rhetorical question)My point was that coaching isn’t going to solve our offensive midtfield issue as long as we have to play both Fred and McT on the midfield (defensive stability) and Pogba has been more out that in our startup.
It’s quite obvious we need more skills available on our midtfield. We can’t solve that with coaching. Don’t see how coaching can do offensive magic with Fred/McT.
But I said you had some good points too
I agree our recruitment has improved recently but it looks like we will probably be paying for our old mistakes for a while yet. I don’t see us going out and blowing other teams out of the water for a haaland or anything which is a pity given the figures we’ve wasted on absolutely nothing over the last 8 years. I also don’t understand how the owners operate. They’ve left managers hanging for transfers when we look like finally kicking on. I’m sure it’s been hard for the management to plan around but hopefully this summer we can still bring in a starter or even 2.I”m assuming you are talking about the recruitment before Ole took charge,because our recruitment has improved significantly in these last 2 seasons.In my opinion we are 1 good summer transfer window away from havint a squad that can potentially compete for the league...But I”m not sure if Woodward and the owners are willing to take the bull by the horns this summer.I”m not sure if they have the desire or the intent to take us back to the top...,If we finish in the top 4 again,then we may have to endure another summer of relative transfer inactivity....
We have too many ball hogs and very little player movements with or without the ball. We have players who can run/sprint but no intelligent runs at all. Unless the conditions are perfect for a pass there is no attacking threat. Pogba and Bruno are the only ones do something with some creative instincts but it is met with players who need too much time to control the ball or are either ahead of the ball or behind the ball. Seen this far too often to ignore it as a misplaced pass.We have watched countless interviews of Ole in which he mentions that he likes the United teams which always overruns their opponents and I think that's unnecessary in the modern day. If we watched the best teams in the world today, speaking about the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, City; they like to make the ball do all the running and station players in the right areas. Are we still stuck up with a coach in Ole who's been a part of the SAF era where we actually played the counter attack system (4-4-2). We actually still kind of play the same system in 4-2-2-1-1 with 2 wide players and Bruno right behind the striker. We are really poor in possession and struggle to get going when teams actually sit back and let us have possession. We also seem to struggle against teams who actually hog the ball. We really can't get going until we are pushed against the wall.
This team actually has problems all over the pitch, Henderson has been better in distributing the ball but when he fumbles, nobody actually cover up. De Gea cannot actually put the ball into out players feet where it could lead to an attack and comes under huge pressure. Our defense is too slow to bring out the ball. When most people say 2 steps forward 1 step back it actually makes sense within the team. Maguire to Shaw, Shaw to Rashford who plays it back to Maguire and the process repeats. While on the right side, Bissaka to James and he often runs inwards but if it is Greenwood on the right, the ball is usually played back to Lindelof or one of Mctominay or Fred.
Our defensive midfielders are just so static and mostly clinging to the center backs. Mctominay is very limited and so is Fred. They cannot actually carry the ball forward and are often caught on the ball. They're both wonderful defensively but that's not how United should play, is it?! Their passes are often strayed or the weight of pass is inaccurate.
Let's delve into the hole that is our forwards now. Rashford has done well in a few games but I think he can do a lot lot more than he thinks. He runs into the defensive without actually thinking ahead so many times. His recycling is awful. Shaw outruns him into empty spaces more times than not. Cavani has been a delight sometimes but even he cannot get this forward line together like Zlatan could. Bruno has been a brilliant addition to this team but the man just cannot hold on to the ball for one sec, I should think he should be the only player in the team who should be allowed a second touch on the ball because every time he moves with the ball, he does things that befuddles the opponents. He just tries to move the ball as fast as possible and I can honestly say that nobody in that forward line can actually read his passes and often run elsewhere.
MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM: FIRST TOUCH AND ONE TOUCH PASSING!! Awful Awful. Martial has been utterly useless this season, a player with such great potential but something hasn't worked for him and his form's gone down south. Except for defense where also we need a Left footed CB, we have players all over the pitch who are actually playing out of position but that's the modern game and players are used to playing in various positions. Ole however hasn't really put a plan in place and he is just taking the flow. I know some of us on the Caf might think I'm overreacting because we've scored more goals than previous seasons and that we are second in the league but I personally haven't felt like we're the second best team in the league.
Also I'm in no way criticizing the players for not making an effort because that isn't the problem, I think the problems are with the coaching and a certain way of doing things on the pitch. Critical I'm too much of this team but I think this team is capable of a lot more than it is showing and it has world class players who are underperforming for some reason. I just cannot wrap my head around that. Ole is amazing with the players and the staff and also with the fans but unless we back him in the summer, I think he shouldn't sign a new contract but what can he do. He's in a coveted position and the Glazers and Woodward have managed to find a puppet who will do as they say. Creating those 2 positions for Murtough and Fletcher within the United ranks is a scam and I'm not falling for it until we actually sign players who can make a difference in this team.
Every die hard United fan knows what this team needs, how will the higher authorities not know about it! Do something or we're doomed to watch the slow, snail pace football for a long long time.
This. This is why however Ole pretends hes playing like the old Fergie teams, he really isnt. Whenever we won the ball there were usually at least 2 outballs or more. Now its like Subbuteo. Everyone has reached their positions, so just stand around until the ball arrives.One of the most frustrating parts about this team is that they are far too static, can't remember the last time I saw some serious off the ball movement from our midfield or forwards
Think it’s fair to say the level of Liverpool players you mention is a step above both McT and Fred.I think, with that in mind, it is interesting to look at Liverpool. They created a system based on a midfield of three workhorses. The level of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Fabinho is certainly higher than this of Fred and McTominay but by how much in terms of offense? (rhetorical question)
The owners have invested heavily in the squad whenever we”ve missed out on the CL.Not qualifying for the CL tends to shock them into action...But when we start qualifying for the CL consistently they take their eye off the ball.They tend to accept status quo and they seem to be satisfied with just being a top 4 team.I agree our recruitment has improved recently but it looks like we will probably be paying for our old mistakes for a while yet. I don’t see us going out and blowing other teams out of the water for a haaland or anything which is a pity given the figures we’ve wasted on absolutely nothing over the last 8 years. I also don’t understand how the owners operate. They’ve left managers hanging for transfers when we look like finally kicking on. I’m sure it’s been hard for the management to plan around but hopefully this summer we can still bring in a starter or even 2.
I think a good striker and a creative winger instead of an inside forward would make the attack look a lot more cohesive and dangerous especially against the park the bus teams. A DM would shore up the backline and initiate attacks from deeper positions and allow us to play Pogba and Bruno. I think those tweaks could definitely bring us on.
The problem is finding the right players. Are the glazers going to insist on older free transfers to placehold or just keep buying young players for the future? Are the right players for next season available for us in this pool? It’ll be very interesting to see what Murtough and co end up doing and what kind of budget they have. Its looking to me like the whole setup has become even more geared towards leaving plenty of space in the squad for youth players from next season on. I’m excited to see how the likes of Hannibal and Amad do but an injury crisis aside I’m really not sure if it’ll be enough football for young lads to develop properly. Let’s see how it goes anyway
Your comment about NFL is complete bullshit. The NFL has a salary cap and the salaries paid to NFL players are sourced by NFL revenue sharing platforms which are agreed upon by a collective bargaining agreement.United’s biggest issue is our owners sole priority is to make money. Compare that to City, whose primary objective is to win trophies. Providing we make champions league, what happens on the pitch is basically inconsequential. Ole isn’t good enough, and the coaching set up clearly isn’t good enough, but unless we are able to get an all time great level manager like we had with Fergie, we won’t be winning any league titles under this ownership. £90m in dividends every year. That’s Jadon Sancho/Erling Haaland money, straight into our owners pocket. Then they use money generated by United to sign big names for their NFL team. It’s criminal.
To be fair if all of these things were off, we wouldn't be 2nd in the league.The big 4.
Coaching, System, Squad management, and inconsistent players.
The brutal reality is that the clearout needs to include some of the bigger names too such as DDG & Martial because unless we are prepared to sell a couple of big assets then we may as well forget spending much more than around £60m this summer. However putting it back on topic there clearly needs to be a revamp with the coaching setup at the end but you get the impression that Ole sees absolutely no issue with Carrick/McKenna which is scary to say the least.Main problem I would say is the inconsistency of the players, we go from one game winning 9-0 then we lose 1-0, as much as sometimes we blame the coaches for not taking an earlier tactical decision etc, it is the players who are actually playing on the pitch and it is their job to outperform the opponent. Our first 11 can be considered good but as a PL title contender I don't think we are there, we just don't have the quality in all the areas and in the strikers department I think we are way way behind the top 6 teams and most of our exits in the cups this year have been about the team not performing or Bruno not having a good game, which is another issue as we have everything running through him and not enough good players around him to drive the team forward. We need another big clearout this summer and to start bringing players of a higher caliber..
More think the biggest problem is having No real good ST and a world class def mid so progba can bWe are badly coached. If Ole is to succeed, he needs a modern coach, who can coach the players to beat a low block. We shouldnt be playing with two pivots against the smaller teams and still getting over ran in midfield.
We wont win anything with this management and coaching set up. How we can be so inconsistent from game to game is soley on the coaching staff.
Players as good as they are, need to be coached to play a system. Look at Chelsea, after City they probably have the best squad, now having a good coach they are slowly turning the team around to be significantly better than they were under Lampard.
Ole is our Lampard. Might be loved by the fans but is tactically not up to it. If he was in charge of a Leicester or Leeds would he be able to do as well? If Brendan or Bielsa were in charge of United would they be able to do any better? Im certain they would.
It's abit of both, we need more trained attack rutine that is used in interval but also free play. But we surely need a real top STOut of curiosity, is it Ole’s fault when our forwards fail to convert on glorious chances?
Where I would fault Ole, in this regard, is inadequately developing our forwards. We all know the potential of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood but none of those three are in any way more fully developed this season over last season. We all understand dips in form, but this is beyond that. And our front three all play isolation from each other. And then when chances do arise, we’ve been poor at finishing them.More think the biggest problem is having No real good ST and a world class def mid so progba can b
It's abit of both, we need more trained attack rutine that is used in interval but also free play. But we surely need a real top ST
It's neither.We have watched countless interviews of Ole in which he mentions that he likes the United teams which always overruns their opponents and I think that's unnecessary in the modern day. If we watched the best teams in the world today, speaking about the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, City; they like to make the ball do all the running and station players in the right areas. Are we still stuck up with a coach in Ole who's been a part of the SAF era where we actually played the counter attack system (4-4-2). We actually still kind of play the same system in 4-2-2-1-1 with 2 wide players and Bruno right behind the striker. We are really poor in possession and struggle to get going when teams actually sit back and let us have possession. We also seem to struggle against teams who actually hog the ball. We really can't get going until we are pushed against the wall.
This team actually has problems all over the pitch, Henderson has been better in distributing the ball but when he fumbles, nobody actually cover up. De Gea cannot actually put the ball into out players feet where it could lead to an attack and comes under huge pressure. Our defense is too slow to bring out the ball. When most people say 2 steps forward 1 step back it actually makes sense within the team. Maguire to Shaw, Shaw to Rashford who plays it back to Maguire and the process repeats. While on the right side, Bissaka to James and he often runs inwards but if it is Greenwood on the right, the ball is usually played back to Lindelof or one of Mctominay or Fred.
Our defensive midfielders are just so static and mostly clinging to the center backs. Mctominay is very limited and so is Fred. They cannot actually carry the ball forward and are often caught on the ball. They're both wonderful defensively but that's not how United should play, is it?! Their passes are often strayed or the weight of pass is inaccurate.
Let's delve into the hole that is our forwards now. Rashford has done well in a few games but I think he can do a lot lot more than he thinks. He runs into the defensive without actually thinking ahead so many times. His recycling is awful. Shaw outruns him into empty spaces more times than not. Cavani has been a delight sometimes but even he cannot get this forward line together like Zlatan could. Bruno has been a brilliant addition to this team but the man just cannot hold on to the ball for one sec, I should think he should be the only player in the team who should be allowed a second touch on the ball because every time he moves with the ball, he does things that befuddles the opponents. He just tries to move the ball as fast as possible and I can honestly say that nobody in that forward line can actually read his passes and often run elsewhere.
MY BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THIS TEAM: FIRST TOUCH AND ONE TOUCH PASSING!! Awful Awful. Martial has been utterly useless this season, a player with such great potential but something hasn't worked for him and his form's gone down south. Except for defense where also we need a Left footed CB, we have players all over the pitch who are actually playing out of position but that's the modern game and players are used to playing in various positions. Ole however hasn't really put a plan in place and he is just taking the flow. I know some of us on the Caf might think I'm overreacting because we've scored more goals than previous seasons and that we are second in the league but I personally haven't felt like we're the second best team in the league.
Also I'm in no way criticizing the players for not making an effort because that isn't the problem, I think the problems are with the coaching and a certain way of doing things on the pitch. Critical I'm too much of this team but I think this team is capable of a lot more than it is showing and it has world class players who are underperforming for some reason. I just cannot wrap my head around that. Ole is amazing with the players and the staff and also with the fans but unless we back him in the summer, I think he shouldn't sign a new contract but what can he do. He's in a coveted position and the Glazers and Woodward have managed to find a puppet who will do as they say. Creating those 2 positions for Murtough and Fletcher within the United ranks is a scam and I'm not falling for it until we actually sign players who can make a difference in this team.
Every die hard United fan knows what this team needs, how will the higher authorities not know about it! Do something or we're doomed to watch the slow, snail pace football for a long long time.