I did hear someone on the radio suggest bringing the Army over to help protect nationalists from Loyalists rioters
That didn't really help matters the last time that was tried
That didn't really help matters the last time that was tried
Northern Ireland Thread
- Thread starter Gaz.
- Start date
We're all lucky he kept his clothes on, never mind a mask.
No... no it didn't. Let's not do that.
Question for all, how deeply to posters feel connected to the loyalist/nationalist causes? Do you find yourselves taking a side, or is there just a desire for peace. This is just a bystanders question out of curiosity
Personally I only care about the country being peaceful - I have no interest in either causes and just want to live normally and safely. I get angry and frustrated at the politicians here who stir up shite constantly and just persist with the 'us vs them' nonsense that has held the place back for decades. It is incredibly depressing to see kids out on the streets rioting, none of whom were even alive when the troubles were still happening. I like to think that most 'normal' people in NI think the same way as I do - certainly all my friends think the same way and I have many friends from all sides and from all backgrounds and we all just want a peaceful, normal life. This place can be a fantastic place to live but unfortunately when you can have very violent men threatening people and exerting power over poor communities with very little being done about it this is the result.
You either want a UI or you want a Northern Ireland its really that simple, so you will always take a side unfortunately, I don't advocate for violence and this is just a reflection of incredibly poor leadership. While I would be seen as a Unionist, I am certainly not British (which is a rather odd idea I know) but what I do want is talk beginning and a white paper on what the NEW Ireland would look like.
so spent last night down at Springfield rd with other groups trying to keep back "kids" from starting trouble. One thing that was most noticeable, was that the kids that were there, a huge majority anyway, weren't from the local area. Belfast is in the midst of the biggest rioting in yrs and kids 14-16 are coming form other areas to cause trouble, where do their families think they are. The abuse we took from our so called own was despicable. Stones were launched, insults thrown. . The only thing that was a positive was the amount of people on the streets trying to stop it. I'm no fan of political parties but sinn fein, sdlp, people before profit, community reps and well known republicans were all working to stop it. 2 local football clubs on opposite sides of the religious divide both made passionate calls for the trouble to end via social media, Sandy Row and St James swifts. Once again emphasising that working class kids from within walking distance to each other have more in common that keeps us apart.
Fair play to you being active in trying to calm things down - we need people like you out there to try and influence the kids. I know a guy who is always involved in doing the same thing and he may well have been out last night as well, good guy who has big republican connections in his family. I do think that it's the parents of these kids that need to get the hit although having worked in children's homes over the years I also know that in many cases the parents are much worse than the kids.
Just received an email from my work saying they have received PSNI notification that they are expecting things to get back from 4pm today so we are shutting a lot of our services early as a result. Absolute madness. By the looks of it Antrim, Ballymena and Carrick are going to get hit.
That’s always been the way. They used to have bus loads of people brought down to Ardoyne in July. Good to hear that there are people out trying their best to stop it.
My boss just rang me and told me to pack up and go home - the talk around Antrim here is that they plan on blockading the motorway from 4pm - likely will do the same around Ballymena and Carrick. I hate this shite.
Ffs my Mrs has to drive home from Belfast on that motorway.
feck these bastards. Yes the sea border checks are an outrage. But these twats just want any excuse to riot, it has nothing to do with real world events
Honestly tell her to make sure she is leaving work at 3.30pm at the latest. I work in Northern Trust so this is serious enough for us to be closing certain sites early.
Nurses won't be allowed to go home early
I have heard about this on both sides this week. But **** the politicians. Both sides have done all they could to stir up tensions in recent years. Standing in front of the crowds is too little, far too late.
You want to see where this shit has come from this week? Start with Stormont
They will. A broadcast email went around the trust an hour ago
She's not northern trust so won't get it. But drives from the North Coast to Belfast every day
I'm not a loyalist, I'm a unionist. There's a big difference imo.
A vast majority of people in Northern Ireland live their lives totally peacefully. My fiancee is a Catholic im a Prod, in 9 years together the only difference it's made is picking a church for the wedding.
But there are crazy extremists on both sides who see every aspect of life through division and bitterness. People from these groups also tend to get elected which is half the problem.
I have no idea how people can vote for a candidate who openly talks about murdering people just because they go to the same church or feel the same way regarding the border. And I don't know how people elect the likes of the MLAs who couldn't even spell DUP or MP just because they are protestants or wear a sash once a year.
I wish there was a party who refused to even talk about the border until issues like our shocking economy and NHS had been dealt with, but hardly anyone would vote for it. Better to draw lines around boiler debates based on nothing but religion.
Gets you vote's sadly, fear/hatred of "themmuns" is a much bigger voting block than anything else.
Also the border will be a big effector on our economy quite shortly so it is important.
Also the border will be a big effector on our economy quite shortly so it is important.
They don't need a youth club. They need a whole different upbringing and outlook on life.
People are still being raised to hate the other side from day 1. Generic urban left wing council politics won't make a dent in it. A better starting point would be mandatory integrated education - but DUP and SF would never tolerate people starting to get along... who would vote for them!
We have an economy? Has anyone told Stormont?
As someone from the ROI I personally want to see the peaceful reunification of Ireland (well, as peaceful as possible), but I don't think we're anywhere near being ready to see that happen.
So at the moment you'd just hope for peace.
Ofcourse they wouldn't, you'd be actively trying to educate their future voter base, if you expose them to alternative ways of thinking they'll do mad shit like vote Alliance. They both do things to wind each other up, I don't really understand how you can care about an Irish Language act other than for the lulz when it's triggers the mob. It's like a nice thing to do, but should be like 817th on the priority list.
The 3 years of them doing absolutely nothing, proved they aren't that important, you'd think they'd wise up.
But for Christ sake, don't tell Stormont about the economy or we'll lose what little we have.
All jokes a side, we do alright considering relative size, the legacy of the troubles and being an economic backwater, if we could get out of our own way, we'd be fine.
It's unlikely, certainly won't be 100% peaceful.
I'm someone that grew up Protestant and Unionist, but I'm A. Not Religious and B. Not very unionist.
My only real concern from a United Ireland is an economic one, there is quite alot of businesses and services that would shut offices or combine into their Dublin or otherwise located areas, I doubt there's many going the other way. It'll probably lead to further joblessness. Ireland biggest Trade partner is the UK, but NI is even more so and we have the convience of same currency.
But I'm fairly pragmatic if you could prove short term loss for medium or long term benefit, sure why not, it's not like the English give a shit.
It's easy to make jokes about Stormont but I genuinely don't think I know a single person who feels represented by Stormont. Most of my friends and family are Unionist and Protestant (it's just where I grew up) but my fiancee is a Catholic as are a couple of close friends. Can't think of one person, (aside from a couple of older family members) who feels anything but destain for the whole rotten bunch in Stormont. Yet they just get elected over and over and over again. Drives me mad.
He passed away a while ago but there used to be an MLA called David Mclarty, who was a bit of a distant family friend. He was a unionist but above all he was just a nice, hardworking man. Didn't march in any parades, engage in petty point scoring or any of that shit (that I know of) I always thought he was a example of what political Unionism should be, but sadly he was a one off.
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that's it in a nutshell, everyone knows what the problem is but no-one offers viable solutions.
You can only really hope that the more "sensible" parties become bigger blocks somehow, which they appear to be, alteast on the unionist end. Though it's really gonna pop off if Sinn Fein is the largest party, which will happen if the DUP's voter base errodes anymore.
I certainly think SF will end up the largest party sooner or later. There are too many unionists that wouldnt have any doubts on a referendum, but just can't bare the DUP. I'd like to think one day the other side of that coin would decide they deserve better than SF but that vote feels more solid from the outside.
If there was an election tomorrow id probably just not vote at all
I think investment and support should be provided for the establishment of more integrated schools where there is demand for them, but...mandatory integrated education? It's a No from me.
Why not?
I might agree that mandatory integrated education could be a considered bold step if there weren't currently 14 year olds throwing petrol bombs at each other in Belfast.
Idk il leave this thread here, this country depresses me.
For two reasons essentially:
i) Because generally speaking it is parents who are best placed to decide what's best for their children, and mandatory integrated education involves the removal of choice.
And more importantly -
ii) Catholic maintained schools outperform both state and integrated sectors. Parents from a catholic background can't be expected to voluntarily give up the likelihood of a better education and better outcomes for their kids for the abstract benefit of mandatory integrated schools. I realise that grammar schools are a significant factor here but the principle remains.
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Why shouldn't everybody have the same chance to go to a good school regardless of what religion they happen to be from?
Sure, but it's an interesting point, I can see even from a cursory glance he's not entirely wrong.
What constitutes a good school in your view?
I used to have a similar outlook on integrated education when I was younger, but when you look into the actual facts it's only ideology that can keep you wedded to it.
There's a simple mantra that people should remember when it comes to debates around education. And it's that parents, or at least - most parents, don't actually care about education. What they actually care about is their children's education. Understand that and the reasons for a whole host of things become much, much clearer. The rise in prominence of private schools and the so-called postcode lottery in England since the abolition of academic selection being just one example.
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I'd take the opposite view. I think Belfast could and should see substantial economic benefits from a united Ireland. It's crying out for the sort of foreign direct investment that has changed Dublin so much in the last 25 years or so, and it would very much be in this new government's interest to make it happen. At present Belfast is not in a position to compete at all. It would also be nice to see the brain drain stemmed, particularly of those young people from a unionist background who seem to leave NI for Britain at university age...never to return.
Ireland's biggest trade partner is the US. The UK is 4th.
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@balaks
@InLevyITrust
@Tiber
@GDaly95
Thankyou for the replies. I do enjoy hearing other’s opinions on topics such as this that I know little about. Hopefully you all get to enjoy lasting peace, or as close to as possible, sooner rather than later
@InLevyITrust
@Tiber
@GDaly95
Thankyou for the replies. I do enjoy hearing other’s opinions on topics such as this that I know little about. Hopefully you all get to enjoy lasting peace, or as close to as possible, sooner rather than later
I’ve long felt the removal of faith schools and a fully integrated educational system could be the single most effective move toward significant change in the conflict/segregation between Catholic and Protestant communities, essentially through contact theory from as early an age as possible
In this regard I don’t really buy into the idea
of a need to maintain the status quo to allow Catholic families to continue to reap the benefit of Catholic schools performance.
@Kinsella I totally agree that parents don’t care about education policy at large and understandably only about the impact on their kid but this is precisely the reason why that thought shouldn be allowed to drive policy.
Also I don’t think integration would overly change that - there will still be high performing schools vs low performing schools as there are everywhere. I’d wager that largely once the dust settles the same people would benefit who benefit now and that centres much more on class and a host of other educational issues than it does on religion - though I would expect it still to lean toward the Catholic side.
The biggest issues I see are the short term pain and violence it would undoubtedly bring with it and also the fact that our towns and cities are still drawn out in so many instances by such distinct homogenous divisions that integrated schooling would be so neutered in many instances - a situation where an integrated school comprises 90% Catholic and 10% other due to the area it’s in, isn’t really going to make the impact you want.
I suppose that’s chicken and egg slightly because if you don’t start with schools how do we ever hope to break down that kind of community based geographic division.
I went to a Catholic primary and mixed secondary, some of my brothers and a lot of friends went to Catholic secondary. I think it can genuinely be compared to going to an all boys school then suddenly being confronted by girls, that’s how stark exposure to the ‘other side’ can be, particularly in areas that are particularly insular in their traditions.
In this regard I don’t really buy into the idea
of a need to maintain the status quo to allow Catholic families to continue to reap the benefit of Catholic schools performance.
@Kinsella I totally agree that parents don’t care about education policy at large and understandably only about the impact on their kid but this is precisely the reason why that thought shouldn be allowed to drive policy.
Also I don’t think integration would overly change that - there will still be high performing schools vs low performing schools as there are everywhere. I’d wager that largely once the dust settles the same people would benefit who benefit now and that centres much more on class and a host of other educational issues than it does on religion - though I would expect it still to lean toward the Catholic side.
The biggest issues I see are the short term pain and violence it would undoubtedly bring with it and also the fact that our towns and cities are still drawn out in so many instances by such distinct homogenous divisions that integrated schooling would be so neutered in many instances - a situation where an integrated school comprises 90% Catholic and 10% other due to the area it’s in, isn’t really going to make the impact you want.
I suppose that’s chicken and egg slightly because if you don’t start with schools how do we ever hope to break down that kind of community based geographic division.
I went to a Catholic primary and mixed secondary, some of my brothers and a lot of friends went to Catholic secondary. I think it can genuinely be compared to going to an all boys school then suddenly being confronted by girls, that’s how stark exposure to the ‘other side’ can be, particularly in areas that are particularly insular in their traditions.