Not coming this season, maybe next. I'd rather them get a defender in and another striker, looks like Cavani maybe here how he will do have to wait and see, if he's as good as IBRA, was I be happy. Get Another defender in by tomorrow night I be ok with that. Ok Sancho would be ideal but not a must signing . We've also got in 2 under 21s in last week or so, and by looks of it another 2 .
No Sancho, no Top 4... Really?
- Thread starter rotherham_red
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Fast forward seven months and it's looking like it's job done as far as my predictions were concerned. Even better in fact, as I thought we'd be 4th going on 3rd without Sancho, though due consideration has to be given to Liverpool and Chelsea shitting the bed to the extent that they did.
Massive credit to the players and the manager. Especially after the shitshow of no preseason which led to that crap start to the season, and that horrific transfer window. Character and cojones in abundance with this lot.
Give him the tools to succeed or fail, and assess where we can end up with him. That's always been my thoughts with Ole. He's getting us closer and closer with a squad that finished 6th in his first half season. He took a sledgehammer to that squad and sold or sidelined almost all the main players from Jose's team which finished 2nd, and built around the players that Jose didn't want or rate particularly highly. He's then only added 4 first team players to it and has almost transformed the character of it entirely and has improved the league positions year on year. No matter what anyone will say, the progress is there for all to see.
Imagine how close we would have been with someone to give Rashford a rest, or the CB that Ole wanted last year? It's largely water under the bridge now, but another transfer window like last year will be fecking unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.
I've just seen this, and it's pretty moot now but in a squad of 25, where 11 will always be played, being 13th and 15th on that list is a lot.
Especially when you consider both were discarded pretty much as soon as Bruno arrived in January that season. They must have been in the top 5 of mins played at that point, at the very least.
Either you have a really good memory or you were reading through your own thread and caught this on the second page.This aged wellIn fact, all of it aged beautifully, the but boldened especially
Either way well done.
Haha, definitely the latter. I just wanted to reacquaint myself with some of the arguments made at the time. Some interesting thoughts and counterclaims, but that one was hilarious.
This. We've not been able to rest rest the likes of Rashford and Bruno at all, simply because if we did the drop in quality is too big to bear. IF Van der Beek had slotted in perfectly and Martial had not had a complete stinker of a season, we might very well have given City a proper league challenge. Sancho or Grealish is a must, and depending on who leaves, we need more depth added this summer window.
If Cavani and/or Martial leaves, we need a new CF
We need a new CM to replace Matic, regardless is he stays on or not
We need more depth at CB, especially if Baily leaves. If Maguire or Lindelof had gotten a long term injury, we would have been fecked
You bastardo!!!This aged well
Decent argument, no? Proven PL winger (age notwithstanding) and a CB prospect we were allegedly in for (along with Badiashile and that other CB prospect that PSG(?) aren't selling this century) while we were trying to claw each others' eyes out over Lindelof.
I know I was scared of Chelsea (with City and Liverpool ahead of them) pushing us into a nail-biting mad scrap for fourth.
Another memorable claim was that after two games Arteta had done more to stamp his personality on the Arsenal team than Ole had managed in 12 months. That gem is worth digging out.
The strange thing is - they might not! Last year they were 8th - 44 points behind the winners, and 10 points behind top-4This aged well
This season they are currently 9th - 29 points behind the leaders - and 10 points behind top-4
But most likely - their season will be exactly like the last minus the FA Cup
Nah, not for me. Willian was fecking horrid and I was dreading those links to him being true when Jose was here. The Gabriel talk just that: talk. People who knew the goings on at the club were adamant there was nothing in it, and from what people were saying he was never that good to begin with. Spurs and Arsenal were never a factor for me. Jose could have had the spirits of Yashin in goal. Beckenbauer in defence. Edwards in midfield. Maradona on the wing. And Pele in attack, and I still would have had them around 6th. Jose just can't help himself. While Arteta was hideously overrated for basically catching City on an off-day and a post-title Liverpool not being able to finish their dinner at the Emirates.
Chelsea I was 50/50 on. They bought some great potential in Werner, Havertz and Ziyech but when you actually delved into the analysis they all literally occupied the same spaces that the likes of Tammy, CHO, Pulisic and Mount (who were undoubtedly their best players last season) had already been occupying and they went bargain basement for the areas that they actually needed to strengthen. If their signings really hit the ground running they'd have had the potential to get on a run and sail away, but it always carried with it, an element of risk.
I thought that without Sancho, we'd be comfortably 4th because we had the youngest squad in the league last season and the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, McTominay, and Martial were bound to improve further. Irrespective of who came in, and we also had the benefit of having a Bruno and Pogba for the whole season.
As it turned out, we didn't need neither of Mason or Martial to really turn up as Rashford and Bruno (and Pogba + McTominay to a lesser extent) were able to keep the team's momentum up at a time when it was seriously ebbing. And I definitely did not expect Shaw to turn back the clock and then some with his performances this season.
All good fun, hermanoYou bastardo!!!
How he still gets an easy ride is a mystery to me. They finished ahead of us in Ole's caretaker stint. They spunked the best part of £250m since then and they are absolutely hideous to watch. They say these aren't Arteta's players, but he's the one who gave contracts to Luiz and Xhaka. He's the one who made Mori and Soares' moves permanent despite them having zero minutes when they were on loan. He's the one who 'convinced' Willian to come when he said he'll win the CL in three years.
People just have to face facts: he might be a good manager in the future, but Arteta was and is never that man for Arsenal in the here and now.
The press pack still fawn over him, and lay into Ole. How? According to them, the latter should have been gone a long time ago despite him overseeing a quantitative improvement in results. But they're patient and sympathetic to Arteta?
Cast your mind back to when we were struggling with Jesse and Pereira. Do you remember how toxic this place was? How much of a joke figure our manager was seen as in the press at large? Words like charlatan and phrases like Walter Mitty were thrown around like confetti for the crime of Ole having the Utd team he inherited (which was in a state of absolute chaos and a Frankenstein's mess of 3 managers' not named Ole's creation) 7th. fecking 7th! By this stage, we were well on the road to recovery with Bruno's signing. Where's Arsenal's recovery after signing Odegaard? Surely a managerial savant like 'Santi' Arteta could engineer something??
I used to get really riled up when I used to see the bollocks being spouted about Ole generally and the comparisons that there would be with the likes of Lampard and Arteta, but since Ole said himself that he doesn't care a jot what others think of him a month or two ago, I've taken a step back cos if he doesn't give a toss, why the feck do I?
Anyways, in a nutshell, feck the rest and UTFR.
Ah well, they can hang on to that at least. You never know they might be lucky next season and qualify for the EL
Signing Cavani, Bruno/Maguire/AWB being fit, playing Rashford through injury and the emergence of Shaw all helped us.
And of course, Liverpool and Chelsea falling off a cliff.
And of course, Liverpool and Chelsea falling off a cliff.
We can only hope that the owners don’t get complacent and satisfied with our progress that they fail to invest properly into the squad this summer. Chelsea and pool won’t sit idle this window even with the implications of Covid. The club is going to have to do smart business this summer, which is not how we’ve operated in the market since Fergie.
This was counteracted by Martial and Greenwood (until recently) having a poor season, Bruno also losing his steam somewhat, our disastrous start at the start of the league. Ultimately we have maintained exact ppg as second half of the last season, so we have maintained our levels (but consistent over a whole season). Its Liverpool dropping and Chelsea failing to kick on even after the signings that has helped us maintain a comfortable position.
Good point regarding their mega-buys being overlaid on - and pouring cold water all over - their up and coming youngsters from last year. I agree with you - and the 98 out of 100 caftards - pointing out they'd not strengthened at keeper and CB. But at the very beginning of the year I was in the omg-the-Silva-signing-worked-out-for-them-didn't-it camp.
Thought they'd end up around ten points better while our summer looked like we were praying the Bruno Effect lasted for the upcoming nine months - nothing wrong with that, of course, but I was worried they'd push us down into that scrap for fourth.
Yeah, I could certainly see that argument re Chelsea and it's a fair one all things considered. They spent a shed load. Certainly more than us and we had similar starting points, so I can see it. But again, it was the fact that they seemingly neglected their biggest weaknesses which gave me pause for thought.
Anyways, it's all moot for now. We can enjoy the show that is the Top 4 race without getting stressed.
When we lose seven straight and Villa or Leeds pip us to fourth I'm quoting this post.
or win the Europa League.Ah well, they can hang on to that at least. You never know they might be lucky next season and qualify for the EL
Imagine if we didn't anything last summer. We might have been in a title race.
But we wasted it
But we wasted it
league progress is undeniable with the current points tally. The evolution of play and consistency of performances is a concern. As Neville said, United are extremely boring to watch. we manage to grab results but very rarely with a good footballing performance (spurs aside). I see us very much like a Jose Mourinho side and this season may be similar to the season Jose got us 2nd. One cannot deny the fact we are heading for a decent 2nd place finish if we can win 5/6 out of the last 7
Honestly, can you name us some boring games? Comebacks alone and the CL is like 14 games in the exciting column.
It's the latest thing to whine about. Can't argue with progress on points total anymore, can't argue with league position anymore, so let's cling on to "boring boring Man United".
Well no entirely. McT, Fred have been starters this season, James has had quite a more important impact and finally Greenwood hasn't been a starter until very recently. And Martial has been all but resilient this season.
Seems like it. The same way a poster called Ole cowardly last season and that word appeared in everybodys post about Ole for 6 months.
We have been anything but boring this season. If anything, being a bit more pragmatic would see us closer to City imo.
Yep, and in the past when we've been more gung ho in our play and less pragmatic, the same posters have called us "naive"
making a comback in the last 10 mins doesn't necessarily mean the game (90 mins) wasn't mostly boring.
I find most of our games boring but watch because its been my team for nearly 30 years. from recent memory Milan was boring until Pogba came on, West Ham, Leicester was for a United fan as we didn't turn up. Brighton i watched with my Dad and it we upped it after we scored but before this it was boring, when we faced the low block. That's just in the last 6 games.
We are though and our own ex players (Ole's mates) echo this sentiment. Both Keane and Neville have been on record with this and you cannot tell me those runs of draws at the turn of the year were exciting. We are closer to a Jose team in 2018.
Keane " "Maybe they are scarred from the Spurs game. Some of these games have been really boring, considering there are some really good attacking players on the team."
Neville “It wasn’t a good night for United. It doesn’t matter who’s in charge, you can’t be boring and that was boring tonight.
“They are sleepwalking in games. They are going to end up in a top-four race if they are not careful.” (which has happened)
We grind out results without performance but the Spurs game was pretty good as Pogba was running it.
The fact you think we’re comparable to Jose’s team pretty much ends this mini debate.
Top 4 was the bare minimum. I'm surprised anybody actually thought no Sancho no top 4.
Which teams haven't this season? City are stodgy as feck and playing 2 games a week every week doesn't exactly help. We'll have the odd high points like City and Spurs away, but in the main we're going to be having these difficult performances because we've been playing almost non-stop since June 2020 and we have an imbalanced squad.
Read this thread back.
It's still surprising given our squad.
I do agree and worst part is how much Sancho is overrated /hyped
true. It may be no ones fault. Its just an observation
It is no mini debate. Jose has had teams that counter attacked, he has had teams that scored 100 goals, he has had reactive teams, he has had teams that set up with organization and relied solely on the individuals talent and moments to win him games etc
your head is in the clouds