People get hung up on this but when you're spending money on shit players you might as well be setting fire to it, so yes, we have spent lots of money relatively but we wasted 80% of that money on players we never should have been buying.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
City have had, by some distance, the best squad in each of the last 11 seasons. The billions of pounds in spending led to that. The reason they didn't win the league was purely down to mismanagement.
Pep's only claim to fame is that he hasn't mismanaged expensively assembled squads. He is a competent manager. Nothing more.
If he really backed his coaching ability he'd go and win the league with Leicester.
Not PetroCity.
Hadn't they all won the league? They can't have been that bad.
Jose has always been his own worst enemy though. He gets sacked from everywhere at least in part because he's incapable of holding good relationships with people, particularly his players. Pep is the opposite- he never criticises his players in public, hence why his squads have always been behind him.
This is such horrifically stupid logic. Obviously I don't know what your job is but I'm guessing you wouldn't take a huge paycut to go and work in worse conditions and a worse job just to "prove yourself"?
Pep already proved himself. Now he's reaping the rewards.
Funny thread title.
Probably the only Coach in football in absolutely no danger of being sacked.
Probably the only Coach in football in absolutely no danger of being sacked.
Hilarious post
This is rawk level of delusion
Pep is the only manager at Bayern since 2013 who's lasted two whole seasons, no?
Where did he prove himself? He walked into the Barca job with the greatest accumulation of talent ever assembled in the history of the game. I literally think I could have won the league with them.
Then Bayern. I think they've won 8 league in a row so winning the league again is hardly proving yourself.
And now PetroCity. I'm not buying the hype.
If he beat Real Madrid to win the Europa with Aberdeen, I might change my stance.
Then go get your coaching badges.
He's proven himself to everyone in the game except armchair managers. The other guy should have clarified.
How so?
When have City not had the best squad in the league over the last 11 years?
Haven't they spent billions to do it?
When has Pep managed a squad that wasn't the best in the league?
Please tell me where the delusion lies. I'm curious.
He’s probably the best manager in the league. Sure, he’s the most privileged too given his clubs setup, but the way he manages is fantastic. He wins trophies and plays entertaining football to do it, he’s the perfect fit for a club with that budget.
Agreed. I used to be someone who didn't rate him as highly as some did however; what he has done in his career cannot be questioned.
Yes, he has had the best players to work with but so have alot of managers.
Jose has a host of talent to work with and didnt look like winning the league.
People forget who played LB for City in their centurion season, ZInchenko, I mean he is a basic CM converted into LB.
To be able to get a football team to pass as well as Pep has managed is incredible, to win the league cup 4 on the bounce, win the FA cup and 3 of 5 PL titles.
Alot of teams talk about a "rebuild" however, Pep has not required that, he got rid of a whole team when he came in, won the title year after.
He lost Kompany, Silva, now Aguero and still managed to keep going, resurrected Stones.
You’re massively oversimplifying things. When Guardiola took the job, they had just finished third, 18 points off the champions. They had just gone two seasons without any silverware. Yes there was talent there, but without the vision of Guardiola it’s highly unlikely that it would have been realised to the same extent. He made big decisions like shifting Deco and Ronaldinho, promoting Busquets (and later Pedro), bringing back Pique and setting up the team to play in his manner. From two trophyless seasons to winning the treble in his first season. It’s a hell of an accomplishment.
By that logic, do you think Ranieri is a better coach than Pep?
Pep will go down as the best manager of all time if he manages into his 60s. There is no doubt about it, money spending or not. Guy is top notch and makes his teams so much better and delivers results while playing scintillating football.
Top manager, seems a decent lad but a bit of narky twat at times (roid rage)...doing a cracking job at City but whilst he’s Scrooge McDucking it in 20 years time he’ll look back on his time at The Bloos and think, where was the glamour, the excitement and the romance? Tin pot club.
Yes there was talent there must be the understatement of the century.
Here you go Pep for your first foray into club management. Your squad contains
Messi
Iniesta
Xavi
Alves
Etoo
Henry
Yaya Toure
Pique
Busquets
Puyol
Valdes.
Now don't muck it up.
He literally began with the best squad ever assembled and has never entered a league campaign without the best squad.
That is a plain fact in my eyes.
His feat was so impressive Luis Enrique followed him out from the B team a few years later and repeated it.
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I'd call him the greatest tactician but I wouldn't say he's the greatest manager/coach.
You’ve ignored the league standing and being 18 points off, only to then go on to win the treble within one season and turn them into arguably the best club side ever. Guardiola improved most of those players, and you’re judging him on the result of that. People talk in hindsight that it was sure fire thing and it absolutely wasn’t.
Top manager, the best ever is debatable though.
But they went 2 seasons trophyless before Pep, Yes with real coaches not forum posters
Hes among the greats but he won't be ahead of SAF. @Olecurls99 is belittling the best manager of this generation in his posts but I think Pep is tailor made for a certain kind of club/team. It is true that he's always had the luxury of the most talented squads, rather than having to do catching up himself, as the likes of SAF, Klopp and Mourinho did do. Not that I think Klopp and Mourinho are ahead of him, he's miles ahead of Klopp and definitely ahead of Mourinho. But SAF has both the trophy count and the ability to defy odds/rebuild teams and isn't as 'one note' and dependent on blowing everyone out the park with spending
I understand on this forum people aren't going to agree with Pep > SAF doctrine. But believe me, if he manages as long as SAF did (and that's doubtful), by any metric he will have surpassed Ferguson. The spending argument for me falls apart, Ferguson consistently broke British transfer records and had his pick of players from England. I enjoyed Fergie football as much as any united fan but to say Pep's never had to do it by himself is looking at things with red tinted glasses. Tiki Taka at Barca was practically his invention and he was the one who reinvented Xavi and Iniesta as mainstays of that midfield while showing Ronaldinho the door. Pep is also far more tactical and innovative than any manager including but not limited to Ferguson. Sorry, its simply the way it is.
I think fergie will always be up there and I concede in these arguments there can be recency bias. But Guardiola's place as football managerial royalty is secured.
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To be fair Mourinho proved himself at Porto, then went to Chelsea and spent a gazillion quid, then went to Inter Milan where he also spent over 300m Euros. Then he went to Real Madrid who also spent the GDP of a small country, then back to Chelsea where he spent a lot. Then spent a fortune at United, finished 2nd and won a couple of trophies. Only when he went to a club where the spending stopped did he massively flop.
The same could be said of Pep, if he eventually goes to a club without the best squad in the league or endless money then he may be found out. But he is smart and selects the clubs that he wants to manage very carefully.
To be fair that probably says more about Bayern's recruitment than anything. And I'm sure most Bayern fans would agree that Hansi's treble winning season was more impressive than any of his three... especailly when he had a world class squad at the time, prime Robben and Ribery, Muller, Lewa, etc, and still couldn't win the CL.
He will never be above SAF for me because he has always had the best players at his disposal. SAF managed to win consistently when he didn't have the best team and he kept it going for 20+ years.
You can't doubt Pep's quality and what he has done though.
You can't doubt Pep's quality and what he has done though.
I hear this all the time and don't understand this. Do people expect him to go manage arsenal or west ham when all the top elite clubs are lining up for his services? He is one manager that can put his finger on a club and they will be happy to get rid of their current manager to land him.
To be honest, the same also applies to Mourinho some years back, but look what he is at now. Its not that easy to sustain very long and maintain high level of success throughout all the years in a coaching career. Pep has done very well so far, but there is still long way to go. Lets see.
Yep! Sometimes facts/context is completely ignored when it doesn’t fit a narrative.
I don't disagree with you in principle. Although we both know Mou and Pep are as far apart in their managerial capability as possible. Anyone who saw Mourinho even back when he won CL with Inter could see he only knew one way to play. Park his way to titles, it was effective but as football evolved he was found out. On the other hand Pep is not a n00b either, he's been managing for sometime now and I am yet to see anyone consistently get the better of him. All that while playing good football.
But yes, only time will tell.
Has there been any manager or player at the top of his game who was desired by top richer clubs and went to a poorer one for less money/opportunities?
He was lucky to get a chance from a club like Barcelona early in his career but so did Lampard, Pirlo, AVB, etc
Exactly. Its like people expect him to date Susan Boyle when Miranda Kerr and Adriana Lima are trying to woo him.
And with that, that's my last post of the day.
We can also look at what happened after Guardiola left, which is: three out of four Barcelona managers have won the league title in their first full season (Vilanova, Luis Enrique, Valverde). The exception, Tata Martino, was one goal away from achieving the same feat. Their current manager is about to move the team to first place.
Pep outperformed all these managers, both at Barcelona and elsewhere. But looking at this, it's pretty clear that the aberration was the season in third place, not Guardiola winning a league title.
The counterpoint is that Bayern had played 3 out of the last 4 CL finals when Pep took over. It would have been extremely difficult for anyone to continue this run.
I’m going to say this gently to avoid causing offence. You do realise that there’s a massive difference between managing Aberdeen and beating Real Madrid in 1983 and doing the same thing in 2021, right? Football has changed a little bit since then.
I don’t think you actually understand what you’re talking about. With respect.
No he doesn't have to go and prove anything to anyone by going to a smaller club, but that also means people don't have to accept him as being as good as he is made out to be. Unless he does go to a small club there will always be question marks from football fans, but that doesn't mean he should, so people will have to accept other people questioning him.
His first season at City has a bit of evidence to show that he wouldn't be as good without unlimited funds as his team only finished 3rd. He had to spend a ton of money to make his team look this good, he still had a very good team but it shows glimpses of why he couldn't succeed with any players.