Yep, my own son spent most of his childhood at one of them....
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I think he could definitely take a few more risks. Like the second legs against Granada or Sociadad. He’s either not seeing it with them or he hates taking risks… Fergie would have thrown a youth starter or two in those games I reckon. Few more sub appearances etc. I’m enjoying Oles work but I kind of agree with you.
Moaning...Bit rude. Not entirely sure why a club that's built on giving young players opportunities, why I shouldn't have a view about it. Not entirely sure I mentioned anything about playing first team football either but that said, if we adopted your view, we'd have probably never have seen some of the players that went on to become legends at the club. It's a balance but you have to be brave too. Our best two managers proved that.
It would help if you cared to explain why you don't think he'll get a chance here? That's the point of a forum.
My view? My view is what we do is fine. It's you who seems to have an issue with how we do things. I'm quite proud at how the club operate.
Agree. Said above our best two managers were braver in the use of young players and that's been the foundation of the club. Loan moves are rarely successful imo and more examples of them going wrong than right. Def not any agenda about Ole and I guess he's been firefighting to be able to take the risks just sometimes young players can be fearless when given the opportunity. It's interesting cause Rashford breakthrough was never suppose to happen this way and injuries gave him the opportunity. The Evans brother was before him in the pecking order...may never have happen if he was on loan at say Preston. Sometimes just helps to be around the squad when the opportunity presents itself.....
Win silverware first, then take risks. Mourinho didn't take risks and nobody bitched about it, instead they big up the trophies he's won for us and use it as a stick to beat other managers with.
I have no issue, just an opinion. None of us has the monopoly of knowledge when it comes to football or no crystal ball of how things are going to work out. I think on a fan forum I'm entitled to have a view about a club I've support for nearly 50 years even if it's different to yours and also without the need to be belittling or abusive in doing so....
I think this is a falsehood. Yes if you stay near to the squad there’s a chance you’ll get thrown in during an injury crisis. It’s pure luck as much as anything else though. Right player in the right place at the right time. It actually rarely happens. Most loans don’t pan out for the same reason that most players don’t make it. They just aren’t of the requisite quality for the most part. Some players like Greenwood. Fair enough there’s no need to loan him he can do a job for us right now but in most cases a loan to develop and the shop window is the best option for most of these players instead of sitting in the u23s like Brandon this season. If we’d got Gomes out on loan earlier he’d still be here I reckon. We need to be a bit more aggressive about finding the right loans but that’s the way to go in most cases
I don't think there's a clear pathway to the first team under Ole cause he's risk-averse. I think also shows up in his use of players including substitutions. Context, think he's often had to firefight, the stakes are high and he'd sooner go with what he knows. That's not a criticism, just my observation. There are exceptions to the rule like bringing Henderson in and dropping DDG.
I agree on Axel but maybe they are seeing something that we aren’t or maybe his fitness is up and down or maybe he genuinely wants to go with his first choice defence as long as they are fit?
williams isn’t good enough, reckon he will be shown the door in the summer if Laird gets promoted or Dalot comes back.
amad isn’t ready yet, he’s only 18 and in a foreign country. Might see a bit more of him once we confirm 2nd spot.
DeBeek, I think they just don’t know what to do with him. I genuinely don’t.
On the contrary i find Ole will make decisions. Look at Pogba and DeGea for example
I don't know how Jose is better than Ole at promoting youth. He just played bunch of kids in 2016-17 in the last game when he had to save every player for Europa league finals, apart from that which player did he play regularly?
If you'd explained your thoughts initially rather than just passing little comments I wouldn't have sought to question you in that fashion.
You're thoughts and opinions are valid in that respect now you've shared them. That said I disagree with regards to Garner. He's a player who has been held in very high regard at United for some time now and I think it's clear he will be given an opportunity to be part of the first team squad very soon. The club payed particularly close attention to his loan and even cancelled one and moved him to Forest to further his development. Not only that but he's been sensational.
It's interesting how many times it does happen tbh. Read a lot of autobiographies and it's rare it's a straight line to the first team. That said, I agree it's often a large slice of luck but like the Neville brothers, Phil was seen as the better prospect and Gary ability to impress the coaching team and hard work provided him the opportunity, not so much about his talent. I'm a realist, been around professional football for long enough to know other things come into play. Often loan moves are to put young players in the shop window in order to generate income or the clubs investment in them. It's not the rule but you get a sense of where the club is at with you, if you aren't that far from the managers gaze.
I think as a midfielder, given some would argue we have the weakest for years, I'd like to be as close to taking my opportunity as possible. If the clubs goes and gets a Rice, that's an English, Scots, Brazilian (kind of) and Frenchman that's in front of me....
I think he's getting half a season out on loan to a premier league team next season and if he performs, he'll be hauled back to be in the first team to challenge Fred and Scott for a starting job.
Garner is one of the few players we have out on loan that we're actually actively making sure he's getting game time to develop, so he's definitely part of the first team plan in the future.
Garner is one of the few players we have out on loan that we're actually actively making sure he's getting game time to develop, so he's definitely part of the first team plan in the future.
How about Greenwood who has been a regular for 2 seasons? Don’t give me guff about being special the manager still has to gamble on him
I don't know whether this is a sarcastic post in reply to Litch or you misread my post
Depends what age we consider youth. Teenagers or under 21.
He played Rashford a lot when he was a teenager and gave Timothy Fosu-Mensah and Axel Tuanzebe about 400mins.
Ole played Greenwood loads and gave a feck ton of minutes to Williams last year, 400mins to Chong and Dalot.
I think it's about even really. Jose did pretty well giving big minutes to Rashford (he didnt really have a choice) and McTominay. While Ole has done the same with Greenwood, and Williams (who has since been demoted). Both Managers have given 400-500mins to a couple of youngsters.
Rashford's our best player other than Pogba during Jose's time, of course Jose's going to play him.
Players who already had debut wouldn't count as per @Litch . He was talking about promoting youth from the academy/reserves.
That's fine but this is now 3 pages long and people jump in and often respond to something taking it completely out of context. I hope you are right, I watch a lot of u18 and u23 football prior to lockdown. He's always played well at both levels but that's not my point. Not all, there are exceptions to the rule but generally loan moves just don't seem to be that successful with regard to their pathway to the first team. Yes Becks and Lingard when on loan but these times it's different. Generally, those who are constantly around the first team, generally never went on loan. Time will tell but I hope I'm wrong....the best opportunity for first team is taking the opportunity as it presents itself. This is better if you are here than not.
The problem is if we buy a Rice this summer, the pathway is even harder to navigate. The longer you are not around the first team, the harder it is even for established players. Donny can't even get a game.....
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Henderson was a loan and look how that's working out. Tuanzebe also went out and did get opportunities on his return. His major problem has been his fitness.
With regards to Rashford and Mctominay they were in the right place at the right time. If it hadn't been for injuries neither would have likely had such a path to the first team. Mctominay has also benefited from the lack of depth in his specific role.
Greenwood I feel is a different case based on him being seen as generational. Like Foden.
Many of those debuts were a one time thing, I mean I don't think just giving debuts counts as "promoting youth".
While I don't think Ole is specially pushing the academy I think he's a fair man, if you are good enough you'll play and that's how it should be in my opinion. We should not give chances to youngsters, chances are not given chances are earned.
Ole clearly though Williams deserved an opportunity last year, he started underperforming and he went back to the U23 that's the way it's done. I'm sure if Axel, Amad, or Gomes were performing better than the players Ole uses he will have no hesitation on including them on the team.
If Axel is that much of a fitness issue I don't think he'd be on the bench all of the tine, and when he had to play the other week he was good. I think it's Ole's feeling the pressure and is scared to change things up, but that's not sustainable.
Williams is surely good enough to have played a few of the easier games, especially in cups, AWB has barely had a break.
Amad might not be physically ready, but we've never tested him, and how much more taping Marcus together can we do before it starts having longer term repercussions?
I think Ole feels VdB isn't strong enough for the double pivot and Bruno won't rest for his own good so it's hard, but we've used Mata off the right a lot over the lat few years, I don't see why VdB can't do a similar job against lesser sides instead of playing Dan James.
Meh, who cares about that?
Seems to have been a poor, dull game tbf, pretty much a dead rubber from the Forest point of view. Consensus seems to be that he hasn't been arsed the last couple of games;
We are in a tight top 4 fight, we are not going to give youth players time just for the sake of it.
Anyway back to Garner, I don’t watch Forrest but I can see apart from 1 game he always plays 90 mins which is great.
However today for example they played Wednesday (and I don’t care if calling them Wednesday is right or not) who are 2nd from bottom and Forrest still had slightly less possession.
So next season he should really play for a PL side. He will then most likely not get as much play time, but if he wants to play for us he needs to get into a PL bottom half side first.
Anyway back to Garner, I don’t watch Forrest but I can see apart from 1 game he always plays 90 mins which is great.
However today for example they played Wednesday (and I don’t care if calling them Wednesday is right or not) who are 2nd from bottom and Forrest still had slightly less possession.
So next season he should really play for a PL side. He will then most likely not get as much play time, but if he wants to play for us he needs to get into a PL bottom half side first.
Is this the gist of this whole thing?
Great goal from a long way out
Stone bonker!Would be really interesting to see him get a chance in the squad, especially if Matic is likely to be leaving. Watching Chelsea, Gilmour is tidy but plays very safe, would like to see whether Garner could perform to that level.
A big decision to make. We should keep him, but only if he gets some good chunk of game time, or else a loan again to a team where he can play week in week out is better.
So, now that the loan is over, can he play for us in the last dead rubber games for us ?
I think that a mid table team in the prem would suit him like Brighton or even Norwich maybe.
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Did Garner return from loan? We may use him as a rotation option now...
He can't. I don't know where people have got this idea he's allowed to play for us again this season.
Regulation 54.5.3: However, a player returning from loan inside an EFL Closed Period will not be eligible for your Club until the opening of the next transfer window. Clubs are responsible for ensuring any player returning from international loan receives an International Transfer Certificate in accordance with the requirements of the FIFA Regulations – see also Regulation 46.2.
Impressive range of passing and some nice goals.
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