Soft
One of the most blatant penalties i've ever seen, he's twatted him full pelt in the back of the leg.
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
- Thread starter Annihilate Now!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
One of the most blatant penalties i've ever seen, he's twatted him full pelt in the back of the leg.
It's highlighted the shortcomings of some of its employees, not all of them.
Not sure what it is people miss. Henry's handball and the consequences for Ireland?
But this is also why I think having VAR to watch at normal speed would be a great addition - for obvious mistakes. I don't understand how the standard can purport to be "clear and obvious" errors yet the VAR will have to freeze frame and watch in slow mo to overturn. For me, clear and obvious means visible at normal speed - the Henry handball would qualify.
Honestly, I think it's a tough one and not at all black and white. If Tielemans is in the process of taking a stride, and not shooting the ball, we'd say that Werner stuck his foot in front of him and tripped him. Since Tielemans is in the process of shooting the ball, Werner just nipping in and putting his foot between the shooting leg and the ball could be construed as obstructing the shot since he's never in control of the ball.Soft
One of the most blatant penalties i've ever seen, he's twatted him full pelt in the back of the leg.
If that's a penalty, then any player can put his foot in front of the ball as a defender's attempting to clear it and buy a penalty. There are arguments for both sides, because the end result is obviously that one player gets absolutely twatted in the leg and ends up conceding a free kick, but has he put himself in danger (similarly to lowering your head) by just placing his foot between a shot/clearance and the ball? And if that's a penalty, then how do you judge a situation where a player trips another? Does the foul go to the one who makes the trip because he's the one getting kicked?
Almost like you read my mind, I concur fully with your viewpoint.
The ball is there to be won and Tielemans doesn't get a touch on it, he fouls Werner. Its a penalty all day long.
I mean, this would be correct if Tielemans wasn't in possession of the ball, but since he was and he dillydallied on the clearance, Werner had every right to secure the ball. It happened in a split second though. If Tielemans doesn't kick him, Werner has possession of the ball. I don't think the penalty can be any clearer.
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It’s an obvious penalty. Bizarre it wasn’t given. Not even the worst VAR call of the night. That goes to how the feck they decided Bruno touched the ball en route to Cavani.
Cavani's goal was too pretty to be ruled out. The referees are misunderstood lovers of the game.
They decided they couldn't decide, so they let the on field decision stand (no offside)
Precisely
Cancelo getting sent off for being fouled by welbeck was probably the worst. I don't even think they made the ref go see the screen for this one
Apparently it was said on German TV, that VAR didn't look at the Chelsea Penalty because Mike Dean told VAR to not look at it since he was infront of the Situation. That's why Tuchel was complaining on the Sideline
Since when do on field offside calls matter?
Feels like they need a super VAR for clear and obvious VAR mistakes.
The thing is I think the Jesus penalty and foul on gundogan were worse decisions
Since when don't they?
Wasn't it just a few weeks ago where VAR didn't have any angles to draw up lines on the player in question, so they had to stick with the referees decision (offside).
Stonewall penalty for Villa denied now.
It's starting to look like this round of fixtures is the week the refs chose to go all out on the sabotage of VAR...
It's starting to look like this round of fixtures is the week the refs chose to go all out on the sabotage of VAR...
Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent. 
I mean what is this ?
I mean what is this ?
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Seriously? What is going on?
And everybody is annoyed that players dive and act like they are seriously injured after every little contact when in reality if you don‘t do it referees won‘t react.
And everybody is annoyed that players dive and act like they are seriously injured after every little contact when in reality if you don‘t do it referees won‘t react.
I don't think I have ever seen Peter Waton ever disagree with a decision made by the ref or VAR except in cases where VAR disagreed with the ref, in which case he always seems to side with VAR. Pointless to have him there.Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
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"Arsenal players get sent off for far less than this"Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
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Don't think there's much in that tbh.Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
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Ok with a yellow, same way martial should have got a yellow against spurs earlier in the season.
He doesn't connect with his hand or elbow, looks more like he's attempting to push rather than hit.Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
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Benteke elbowing El Neny in the chin while facing him is not violent.
I mean what is this ?
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It's clearly one of the worst push attempts known to man. That said, with Bentekes goalscoring record, it's not really surprising he can't hit the target from less than a yard.
You're right, there might even be a case for a second yellow to El Neny for play acting. The way he fake his head and neck tilting back is pure art.
Frame rate does not have any “margin of error”. For offside...They pick the first frame showing contact with ball (pass) and then compare with position of players in corresponding camera angles. Offside / Onside decision ..
The time taken to make these decisions is shocking for fans for sure.
Before you reply with 50m/s ball speed x Player 33 m/s = 38cm between frames bla bla bla.
Remeber how shocking linesmans decisions were before this technology.
I would hate to return to this.
Christ on a bike, what a trainwreck of a post. "There is no margin of error because I can't comprehend basic maths" - a very bold assertion.
Regarding the old system that was apparently so horrendous - it was about 98% accurate. VAR has taken this to a whopping 98.9%.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...ing-how-many-decisions-do-officials-get-right
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/42781236
Definitely hope that 0.9% is worth the ridiculous hassle of VAR in your mind.
Firstly , I never knew that before VAR , offside decisions were “about” 98% accurate. Because they are not. You have quoted a % of all decisions in a game.
Harsh to call my post a trainwreck. “Margin of error” is not basic maths and does not apply VAR.
The point of contact (pass) (first frame showing this) is taken as reference and the offside is determined from this. Simple.
The frame before would logically show no contact (ball to foot)
There could be a point in between these frames where contact is (between 0 and 2milliseconds). But frame rate is irrelevant
From the Sky piece:
Regarding margin of error - this is simple division, that's basic maths.
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Tell me is this frozen at point of contact? When the ball has clearly already left Silva's foot? This is the point - current limitations in frame rate and resolution of broadcast cameras mean that millimeter-specific decisions at the other end are farcical as they're completely within the margin of error. VAR is claiming to be objectively correct yet there is no basis for this objectivity when they literally have the VAR pick what he thinks is the best frame for when a pass was hit. It's a completely subjective decision that has not actually improved the game in any meaningful way and has in fact detracted from it hugely.
Why is it not the point that the ball makes contact with his foot?
Also “The assistant referee makes on average 50 decisions each game; 45 of these are pure offside judgements, with four of these resulting in offside flags. Their accuracy? Again, a staggering 98 per cent.”
What does that even mean? 98% of 45 offside judgements would mean 44 correct?
How do you know they were correct ? Meaningless numbers. I can’t even work out how they came up with 98% ?
Again, nothing to do with frame rate. Perhaps you are confused with resolution. You could have 1million frames per second but no better result.
If your claim is that whoever is making VAR decisions involves bias and “subjective” picking of frames the maybe the snapshot of video should be made public and so transparent.
Because very obviously that ball is not spherical in the frame used by the VAR? Which means it's after the point of contact? If that's the best frame available due to limitations in frame rate then it's hardly an objective system is it? Obviously this is distinct from resolution, which would better show when the ball has left the foot. The laws state that it's at point of contact though, and plainly 50 FPS isn't adequate to determine that accurately. The frame is chosen by the VAR - who else do you think is making that call? The lines are done by software but the actual frame on which they're superimposed is determined by the VAR.
And yes...not sure why you're struggling with the notion that on average a linesman might make one error per game? Obviously they know they're correct because this is a retrospective analysis where they've gone back and watched the footage. Is this a genuinely confusing concept?
That means they made a wrong call for every 4 times they raise their flag. Now that makes it looks a bit worse than the 98%. Also what do you count as a non offside call? where do you draw the line between what is a correct non offside call and what is not an offside call? Depending on where you put it'll raise or decrease that % of successful call. You could say that every pass that isn't offside and isn't called offside is a correct call.
No it doesn't. That's the silliest way to possibly think about it - you're not considering the times they decide to not raise their flag - that's literally as important.
But I did. It happens every time there is a pass and they don't raise their flag which obviously would make anyone have a very high % of calls right. Now how many of the actually difficult calls they get right would be a much better stat. There's not 45 close offside calls on average in a football game. It's just nice stat to make refereeing looks better than it is.
You say VAR only added 0.9% but VAR only looks at it if there has been a goal/pen/red card. If you go with the 50 decisions a game that's almost 1 goal or other big decision every 2 games while there's only 2.68 goals per game.
You say VAR only added 0.9% but VAR only looks at it if there has been a goal/pen/red card. If you go with the 50 decisions a game that's almost 1 goal or other big decision every 2 games while there's only 2.68 goals per game.
You seem to not understand how aggregated data work mate. Also you're completely ignoring the fact that assistants have been told they have to fundamentally change the way they officiate the game - not captured in all of this is how many incorrect free kicks or corners or throws are given because the assistant has been told to default to keeping his flag down.
Also there have been 126 VAR interventions from 370 matches to date - 1 every 3 matches more or less.
Aren't they supposed to wait before they raise it and not to not raise it at all? They'd raise it if they believe there was an offside when the ball goes out of play.
That's what they're supposed to do but it certainly hasn't been happening consistently. There have been some staggeringly egregious corners given - I could be wrong but I believe Sheffield United got an appalling one against you lot in the last match.
He only keeps his flag down if he could be offside and leading to a goal chance. If the play slows down the flag goes up.
If the linesman keeps their flag down then theyre telling you they dont know if its offside or not
Since you insist on insults -
It is “Obviously” genuinely confusing how they watch footage and can retrospectively calculate errors. What footage ? VAR ?
What is “ the notion that on average a linesman might make one error per game” ? I never claimed to know any statistics on this. I only know VAR is an improvement. To add again, I hate it taking so long for decisions and celebrating a goal is now overshadowed with watching ref to see if VAR is involved.
Introducing some kind of offset to “fix” is totally flawed. Not sure why you are struggling with this. Perhaps you could explain how this would work?