No silverware no progress. Lets keep it simple.
5 years without a trophy - Further away than ever
- Thread starter laughtersassassin
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No silverware no progress. Lets keep it simple.
Yes but what good is it exactly saying '4 years without a trophy isn't good enough'? That much is obvious! It's what we then do about it that is the biggest issue.
We shouldn't be fooled, the reason we haven't won a trophy for four seasons isn't really related to anything we have done in the last 24-months or so, if you want to understand how we have gone from the dominant team in English football and clear 2nd-best in Europe to scrapping around in Europa League finals then you need to go back a decade at least.
The club is finally back on the right track in terms of the decisions that are being made on and off the field. The problem is, there are/where so many bad decisions to undo!
We shouldn't be fooled, the reason we haven't won a trophy for four seasons isn't really related to anything we have done in the last 24-months or so, if you want to understand how we have gone from the dominant team in English football and clear 2nd-best in Europe to scrapping around in Europa League finals then you need to go back a decade at least.
The club is finally back on the right track in terms of the decisions that are being made on and off the field. The problem is, there are/where so many bad decisions to undo!
One of that's decisions being keeping a manager that's not up to it.
Don’t really care about Europa to be honest.
The threat should be : 8 years without a league title and nowhere near to it !
It is so depressing…
The threat should be : 8 years without a league title and nowhere near to it !
It is so depressing…
Aren’t we Spurs or Arsenal ? 8 years without the league title and nowhere near to it. The owners doesn’t care but for the top 4.
But let’s not act like Mourinho and Van Gaal were better. If they got there way they would have ruined the club. They were buying trash and didn’t care about the long run ! Even if Ole didn’t win a thing he takes care of the club much better.
The 2nd place finish (30 points behind city) was a different season from the Europe League victory (sure we finished 6th that year).
Man Utd is not a sugar daddy club. We all saw what happened at Leeds Utd when a club without a sugar daddy owner, tried to buy it's way to trophies.
We almost repeated the same mistakes by hiring a CEO and a manager in Jose Mourinho, who shared a similar vision - spend tomorrow's money today, to try and buy trophies today. It almost resulted in Man Utd becoming another Leeds. If it was not for the Bruno Fernandes signing, Man Utd could have been facing their 3rd season in a row out of the Champions League. That would have had catastrophic consequences for a club crippled with debt.
Finally common sense has prevailed. We are slowly getting back to what we do best, buying young potential at the right price, and with painstaking patience, turning it into superstar level, despite how frustrating it can be watching a young kid learn their trade, making a heap if costly mistakes along the way.
We almost repeated the same mistakes by hiring a CEO and a manager in Jose Mourinho, who shared a similar vision - spend tomorrow's money today, to try and buy trophies today. It almost resulted in Man Utd becoming another Leeds. If it was not for the Bruno Fernandes signing, Man Utd could have been facing their 3rd season in a row out of the Champions League. That would have had catastrophic consequences for a club crippled with debt.
Finally common sense has prevailed. We are slowly getting back to what we do best, buying young potential at the right price, and with painstaking patience, turning it into superstar level, despite how frustrating it can be watching a young kid learn their trade, making a heap if costly mistakes along the way.
If I told you a club spent £140m on two defenders and still planned on spending big on two more, and had £100m worth of very recent signings on the bench unused in a cup final.
You would think I was talking about City. But no, I'm talking about Ole's United.
Crazy to think we have finished,
2nd
3rd
2nd
in 3 of the last 4 seasons , but still seem a million miles away from wining the PL.
The manager you say isn’t up to it has achieved our best results since 2013
And this is the biggest problem. We’re being compared with a team who have been financially doped like no other team in sporting history. Without City and the £4.5BN that’s been pumped into them we’d have won two of the last four titles!
It is not 4 years!
It has been nearly 8 years since United won a "Tier 1" domestic trophy and nearly 14 years since United won a "Tier-1" European trophy.
Well, there was the FA cup trophy in 2015/16. I don't know if that changes anything.
It has been nearly 8 years since United won a "Tier 1" domestic trophy and nearly 14 years since United won a "Tier-1" European trophy.
Well, there was the FA cup trophy in 2015/16. I don't know if that changes anything.
Never thought about that mate. Only think we are miles away because we have never been in the title race, so crazy yes when you look at the table.
2nd means nothing if your are not in the race, it’s like in Germany in this case: one horse race.
When you look at our season, when we went at the top of the table we sinked right away, loosing to Sheffield and drawing with sh*t teams right, left and center. That’s pretty pathetic, as the team doesn’t even believe in itself.
There is a big difference to be able to finish the job. Yes City has a better squad. But few have made it before through sheer belief. We don’t have that.
Under SAF, when we went top it was pretty hard to take that place from us. The last team was not better then what we have now. It was belief. If you have that it is pretty hard for your opponent. But now we go top and panic…
So what goes wrong in Europe then? We have vastly more resources than most of our opponents.
How so? LVG won an FA cup, Mourinho won an EL, also got second and with more points.
Please explain how has Ole got better results?
Cultural reboots and invisible progress are much more important than winning matches or lifting trophies.
Just a lazy narrative about how Ole is doing an amazing job which have absolutely no titles to show for but somehow it's still great.
What frustrates me more is that some people here is also taking the narrative about "him leaving the foundations for the next manager" like saying it's ok if he doesn't win anything that hypothetical progress for the next manager is a success.
I wonder what they'll say if the next manager fails, will they say well Ole didn't leave shit for it or "we'll this manager sucks all the foundations Ole left and he still managed to fail".
I don’t really want this to be a dig at Ole but watching this CL final we look a million miles away from both these teams. The way they move both with and without the ball, the speed of the passing and the execution of both managers tactic is something to behold.
I really hope we can take a long look at our coaches and bring in 1 or 2 we’re miles off this lot.
I really hope we can take a long look at our coaches and bring in 1 or 2 we’re miles off this lot.
Really? A million miles? United beat city 3 times last season. All this so called talent And they are both playing shit.
Classic case of Pep overthinking it trying to play 4D chess. But this game highlights the impact a manager can make with Tuchel, they are so well drilled and that’s all his impact.
We need to get away from trying to throw all players out with every managerial change, getting the appointment right is absolutely key. Ole has to step us up next season, not like he doesn’t already know that.
We need to get away from trying to throw all players out with every managerial change, getting the appointment right is absolutely key. Ole has to step us up next season, not like he doesn’t already know that.
Beat them in a one off game sure but those one off games don’t carry you a season. We‘re pretty good at counter attacking football it plays in our favour against City usually.
They’re both playing shit? its a cracking game
We’re nowhere near winning the League, not significantly closer than at any time since SAF left.
I think Ole is a very simple, old fashioned manager that could only win the League in a similar way to Ranieri winning it at Leicester or the Champions League similar to Di Matteo at Chelsea. Would have to be everything lining up and working out perfectly as a one off.
This season for me was a missed opportunity, when City came to Old Trafford they were there for the taking, said it at the time and we bottled it. Next season it’s not going to be any easier even with a good window, I can’t imagine Liverpool and Chelsea will be as poor and City will at least be every bit as good.
I think Ole is a very simple, old fashioned manager that could only win the League in a similar way to Ranieri winning it at Leicester or the Champions League similar to Di Matteo at Chelsea. Would have to be everything lining up and working out perfectly as a one off.
This season for me was a missed opportunity, when City came to Old Trafford they were there for the taking, said it at the time and we bottled it. Next season it’s not going to be any easier even with a good window, I can’t imagine Liverpool and Chelsea will be as poor and City will at least be every bit as good.
Villareal was a one off game too for fecks sake
The sheer woeful and unashamed lack of self understanding is winding me up on Redcafe.
Funny how Tuchel got this in 4 months...but we can't expect Ole to do it in over 2 years because "rebuild"
I vividly remember LVG apologists using the exact same words when it became obvious we were going nowhere under him.
He needs at least another 300 mill to spend don't you know? Only if we have a team that my grandma could manage we may judge him!
300M and patience...many many years of intangible "progress"
Who cares about trophies anyway? We got top 4 back to back. Are you fecking kidding me?
The feck you on about? I’m talking about match tactics and coaching if you can’t see the difference between a top elite team and ourselves I feel bad for you.
Were fecking miles off it’s not even close
From Ole fans "He needs another 3- 4 years to rebuild"
The amount of excuses for Ole is ridiculous. No one is expecting him to win the league or UCL but win something. A carling or FA cup. For heaven's sake Leicester and Arsenal with far less talented squads have managed that
Who cares. Ole told us trophies can mask weaknesses in the squad. And he's right because winning the Poundland CL would give his fanboys more ammunition to support this average manager.
So proud.
Even shit teams like Chelsea are becoming better in Europe than us.
Even shit teams like Chelsea are becoming better in Europe than us.
Chelsea showing once again there is no point taking years and multiple summers to try do your rebuild.
Rip the bandaid off and get it done asap.
Rip the bandaid off and get it done asap.
Depressing we're not even close to winning the big one like Chelsea did. And they were in the same situation we were in just 6 months ago.
It's because they don't tolerate failure. We do.
By we I mean our owners and the people running the club.
Id we wanted to be competing at the top we could be. But it just not anywhere near a priority.
Guess OP didnt get a memo, winning aint important in this place, people dont minding losing semis etc.
The difference is, their owner wants success on the field, our owners want to be a profitable business and take dividends out of the club.
5 of Chelsea's starting line up were signed in the Summer. That's how to change your fortunes unfortunately.
Even then they've done a Villareal on City who were similar priced favourites to us. Lost a key game to Villa last week and fell over the line for top 4.
Even then they've done a Villareal on City who were similar priced favourites to us. Lost a key game to Villa last week and fell over the line for top 4.
You are either troll or the most deluded person on this forum. Seriously man
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