England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

[paulscholes18]

Is Kane playing with an injury? Looked miles of the pace in the 2 games.
No need for Rice to have played, let Phillips run the midfield on his own like he does for Leeds and play Grealish instead.
Fodan has done nothing in an England shirt to warrant still being picked ahead of Rashford, not even disappointed in Fodan’s performances as I expect nothing from him to begin with.

 

[0161_UNITED]

Home from the pub, and for some weird reason just wasn't in the mood to get all pissed up and lairy tonight. Watched some of the the post-match analysis on youtube. England weren't that bad, and all due credit to Scotland for being well up for it. Really worried about Kane, not so much because of the match, but in his post-presser he looked wrecked by this, you could tell he was gutted. This same pressure from captaining England, the media, the expectations, etc. you can just see the weight of the world on his shoulders, same as it was for Wayne and so many others for England. I'm not going to sit here and defend Southgate, but let's be honest... I'm a bit of a Grealish fan, I was hoping he'd start, he didn't, he came on, I cheered ... but Gazza he was bloody well NOT tonight. Really easy to try to stick the boot in on Kane, Southgate, Sterling, Foden, etc. but it's just one match, England are in a good position to make it through - although they made it tougher, like they always do. Whenever England lose, whoever didn't start, or didn't play, or didn't get selected is always the best player in the world.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Today England desperately needed real width, amongst other elements in their play.
But who's there to offer it ?
Saka and Sancho I guess. Two players who are capable of going on the outside effectively.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Thought England were poor tonight. Not really sure why, didn't seem able to control the ball. I like foden broadly but would have been better with more experience and control. Agree with a few of the points, sterling seems pointless, DCL might have been a good sub for impact, Sancho might have given width. Could improve with Maguire who offers something on the ball at least. Rice and Phillips might be a great midfield if it is a battle when England can counter but not the game for them today. Team could be better in the knock outs.

I am Irish so don't give a bolox, interesting reading the more invested views here.

 

[sullydnl]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Theon]

Rooney
Owen
Lampard
Scholes
Beckham
Gerrard
J Cole

Or

Gazza
Mcmanaman
Shearer
Sheringham
Fowler
Cole
Les Ferdinand

These sets of players were better, and had a better defence behind them. Let's stop over hyping these current players. They have achieved nothing yet.

The attacking talent in this squad is significantly better than what we had available in Euro 2004. We were so lacking in offensive depth that our best midfielder had to play left wing. Going forward we were hugely reliant on an 18 year old having his break out tournament, and outside of our first XI (who weren’t much cop going forward outside of Rooney) we were turning to Heskey and Darius Vassell to freshen things up. Personally rate Sancho and Rashford higher.

And dropping names with no context is a tad pointless. Joe Cole didn’t kick a ball at Euro 2004. Owen was already on the decline and not the player he’d been three years ago. Gerrard was in his early career CM incarnation playing a two-man holding midfield role and you wouldn’t include him when talking about our offensive options.

The Euro 96 squad had a good attack and is more comparable to the calibre we have here (not quite as good though IMO across the squad). Kane and Shearer are similar figure head number #9s. On the wings McManaman was of a comparable reputation to Sterling / Rashford, but Anderton a level below. Sheringham rounded off that front four, but again I would say that Grealish is just as good and he’s coming into the tournament with higher expectations. In terms of strength in depth the current squad is definitely ahead. A lot of the Euro 96 depth was focused in one position (Fowler and Ferdinand pushing for a starting berth but ultimately not required given Shearer’s form, Cole from your list wasn’t in the squad). On the flanks and in midfield there was less depth than this England team which is where it was needed.

This is definitely a young squad but there’s a huge amount of talent within it and you’re letting Southgate off the hook by using that as an excuse to underachieve. All teams are unproven until they actually win something, at which point they suddenly aren’t. Equally, prior success isn’t a guarantee of anything. And the majority of these players are more than proven at domestic and continental level, certainly proven enough to play a bit better against Scotland at home. This is England’s best chance at tournament success in a while and he needs to get more out of the side offensively. As an example we’ve got one of the most dangerous wingers in European football who still can’t get a kick despite our problems posing a consistent threat in attack, whilst he persists in playing two defensive midfielders to compound the problem (and who genuinely are pretty unproven, bizarrely).

 

[Wayne's World]

Don't understand the calls for England to play for a draw so they could finish 2nd (or 3rd) against the Czechs. Yes they could end up facing Sweden in the last 16 but they would lose their home advantage for the two games in last 16/QF and would have to travel to Copenhagen for Sweden and then play France in St Petersburg and by finishing 3rd and would end up having to play either the Dutch, Belgium or Spain in Rome and then Portugal in the QF's in Glasgow.

Be careful what you wish for is what I would say for anyone saying which is the better route. Win your game and take care of the rest.

 

[InspiRED]

everyone's been basically kind of shouted down who pointed out that this might happen. But look... It's just not a surprise. Fair play to Scotland though, they played well, but the quality in out squad we should not be drawing games like this.

 

[redmanx]

The attacking talent in this squad is significantly better than what we had available in Euro 2004. We were so lacking in offensive depth that our best midfielder had to play left wing. Going forward we were hugely reliant on an 18 year old having his break out tournament, and outside of our first XI (who weren’t much cop going forward outside of Rooney) we were turning to Heskey and Darius Vassell to freshen things up. Personally rate Sancho and Rashford higher.

And dropping names with no context is a tad pointless. Joe Cole didn’t kick a ball at Euro 2004. Owen was already on the decline and not the player he’d been three years ago. Gerrard was in his early career CM incarnation playing a two-man holding midfield role and you wouldn’t include him when talking about our offensive options.

The Euro 96 squad had a good attack and is more comparable to the calibre we have here (not quite as good though IMO across the squad). Kane and Shearer are similar figure head number #9s. On the wings McManaman was of a comparable reputation to Sterling / Rashford, but Anderton a level below. Sheringham rounded off that front four, but again I would say that Grealish is just as good and he’s coming into the tournament with higher expectations. In terms of strength in depth the current squad is definitely ahead. A lot of the Euro 96 depth was focused in one position (Fowler and Ferdinand pushing for a starting berth but ultimately not required given Shearer’s form, Cole from your list wasn’t in the squad). On the flanks and in midfield there was less depth than this England team which is where it was needed.

This is definitely a young squad but there’s a huge amount of talent within it and you’re letting Southgate off the hook by using that as an excuse to underachieve. All teams are unproven until they actually win something, at which point they suddenly aren’t. Equally, prior success isn’t a guarantee of anything. And the majority of these players are more than proven at domestic and continental level, certainly proven enough to play a bit better against Scotland at home. This is England’s best chance at tournament success in a while and he needs to get more out of the side offensively. As an example we’ve got one of the most dangerous wingers in European football who still can’t get a kick despite our problems posing a consistent threat in attack, whilst he persists in playing two defensive midfielders to compound the problem (and who genuinely are pretty unproven, bizarrely).

Southgate is manager basically because nobody else wanted the job; I believe Southgate was 3rd or 4th on the list. I imagine the FA were pleased he took the job because unlike some he appears to have no baggage and so ticks the right boxes. Southgate is at best a decent manager but he is without doubt a very decent, nice person....but nice people usually end up last and I really dont think Southgate will lead us to glory. I hope Im wrong.

 

[0161_UNITED]

Southgate is manager basically because nobody else wanted the job; I believe Southgate was 3rd or 4th on the list. I imagine the FA were pleased he took the job because unlike some he appears to have no baggage and so ticks the right boxes. Southgate is at best a decent manager but he is without doubt a very decent, nice person....but nice people usually end up last and I really dont think Southgate will lead us to glory. I hope Im wrong.

Not to defend Southgate, but to say that nobody wants one of the most high-profile, well-compensated jobs in world football is a bit off.

 

[Dominos]

The amount of people claiming Foden shouldn’t have come off

He was looking better than Sterling and Mount surely?

I'd have an overhaul of the front 4 for the next game and start Grealish-Foden-Sancho behind Kane. Kane only keeps his place because the replacements in his position aren't as strong.

For all the attacking talent people talk about us having, we've scored 1 goal in 2 games. In attacking positions, being neat, tidy, solid, decent is not enough. These players need to win you games, they need to be creating chances and testing the keeper all throughout the game. Kane, Sterling, Foden and Mount frankly none of them are up to standard so far and we're never winning a tournament without any attackers in good form.

Mount is getting an easy ride for me, your number 10 needs to be doing a lot more - if Foden or Grealish had been given 2 full games at #10 I'm pretty confident they'd have delivered a lot more.

As for the midfield, against the stronger teams I think Rice and Phillips makes sense. If we're expecting to dominate, bring Bellingham in or take a risk of just Phillips holding alongside 2 of Grealish/Mount/Foden.

 

[krentz]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If southgate is trying to make Phil Foden, one of his mainstay players for this tournament then he's up for some nasty suprise. Nothing against Foden, he's an excellent young player but this is his first senior international tournament and he's been playing out of position. southgate plays him far too wide almost a winger like which is ironic because southgate has Jadon sancho who is far more comfortable playing from wide position. with the chance of winning the euro this year slim to none southgate shouldve been looking to integrate sancho and Foden slowly into the international stage with one eye for world cup next year. Get them used to the international tournament like the Germany did in 2010.

 

[::sonny::]

S’gate such a shame

This would be correct lineup

Henderson

Trippier Rice Maguire Chilwell

Henderson Philips

Sancho Grealish Sterling

Kane

 

[FootyGirl88]

Southgate is a terrorist at this point

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[tentan]

-------------------------Pickford

Walker----Stones--------Mings-------Shaw

--------Phillips---Rice------Mount

---Sancho------Foden------Grealish


Team should be for next game

 

[0161_UNITED]

-------------------------Pickford

Walker----Stones--------Mings-------Shaw

--------Phillips---Rice------Mount

---Sancho------Foden------Grealish


Team should be

Well done. You can put your crayons away, mate, you've got it well sorted.

 

[sullydnl]

-------------------------Pickford

Walker----Stones--------Mings-------Shaw

--------Phillips---Rice------Mount

---Sancho------Foden------Grealish


Team should be for next game

Apart from some specific games where you're going to be utterly dominated, I can't imagine why you'd pick two DMs in Rice and Phillips.

I mean I know why Southgate picks them. He's said the combo allows him to pick four attackers. I just don't see why other people would buy into the idea that England have to be so miserably negative in order to accommodate four attackers. And it's not like he has the fullbacks bombing on either.

Barring specific games where it might be justified, the starting point should be one DM. Especially if that DM is operating in the super-restricted way Rice was in the last game. It says a lot about Southgate that he's using Rice more conservatively than David Moyes does despite pairing him with another player who is actually a DM.

 

[SCP]

Southgate thinks he’s some sort of iteration of prime Mourinho — neglecting technically gifted players for his ‘philosophy’. Hasn’t got a clue.

Prime Mourinho never did that. The current one (ok since 2013 maybe) yes. Don’t compare prime Mourinho to Southgate.

 

[Andre Kagawa]

Southgate is a terrorist at this point

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Insane stats.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I’m speechless how Sancho has played no mins so far for you guys yet, particularly against us when Sterling wasn’t getting much joy 1v1 against our weakest link Stephen O’Donnell who had arguably his greatest ever game in a Scotland shirt.

I thought when you brought on Rashford, you were gonna take off either Rice or Phillips and stick Calvert-Lewin on as well and go with two up top.

Southgate only making two subs when there is 5 available for him to make just had me scratching my head. Not gonna complain though

 

[Powderfinger]

Apart from some specific games where you're going to be utterly dominated, I can't imagine why you'd pick two DMs in Rice and Phillips.

I mean I know why Southgate picks them. He's said the combo allows him to pick four attackers. I just don't see why other people would buy into the idea that England have to be so miserably negative in order to accommodate four attackers. And it's not like he has the fullbacks bombing on either.

Barring specific games where it might be justified, the starting point should be one DM. Especially if that DM is operating in the super-restricted way Rice was in the last game. It says a lot about Southgate that he's using Rice more conservatively than David Moyes does despite pairing him with another player who is actually a DM.

Exactly.

People can keep complaining about their favorite attackers not being in the team but the real issue is the tactics. If you're going to play two DMs without very attacking fullbacks, you're just not throwing enough players forward or putting enough players on the pitch who can cause problems for a well organized opponent. Swapping out Sterling for Grealish or Foden for Sancho isn't going to change that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I just don't understand how Southgate keeps picking Foden when you have Grealish, Sancho and Rashford available who are all better players at the moment. I'd be interested in seeing Grealish left and Sancho right but seems they're not Southgates favourites

 

[The Cat]

Anyone else think Shaw was quite a big improvement today? I don't understand what Southgate is doing with his selections he seems confused.

 

[Neo_Mufc]

There's not been anything so far in the 2 games that has made supporting England enjoyable so far. At least WC 2018 we had some exciting matches to remember.

Just seems inevitable that we are set to be knocked out in last 16.

 

[Klopper76]

This is nothing new is it? A group of talented English players with a manager who can’t get them to play well as a team. Combine that with the baffling team selection and we all know this is ending in the first knockout round.

 

[P-Nut]

That would be my lineup.

You've managed to play Saka in possibly the one position he's never played

 

[Isotope]

Hopefully Sancho has a tournament that won't increase his price (for us).

 

[Isotope]

Well done. You can put your crayons away, mate, you've got it well sorted.

Boom!!

 

[meamth]

I fell asleep, glad I missed the game.

 

[P-Nut]

For those wanting us to finish 2nd for an easier R16 game, you do realise we win that and likely play the winner of the France/Germany/Portugal group the next round right? Followed likely by Belgium I think it is, without going back to check.

I know off of last night we look a million miles from winning it, but if we are going to I'd rather us finish top, and play 2nd in that group, rather than knowing we've got them in the 1/4s

 

[Raees]

You've managed to play Saka in possibly the one position he's never played

He’s played at right wing... so that could also be interpreted as a 4 at the back system as well. But because Walker tends to tuck in, in reality looks more of a 5.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

The biggest worry for me is that England didn't do anything differently in the second half. Nothing changed in how they played, and they got even worse when the substitutes came on.

I was optimistic about them before the tournament, but I certainly am not now. Really horrible performance

 

[P-Nut]

He’s played at right wing... so that could also be interpreted as a 4 at the back system as well. But because Walker tends to tuck in, in reality looks more of a 5.

Yeah looks like a back 3 with Saka at RWB. Not having a go just made me laugh he's played basically every other position on the pitch except the one you've shown him in

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Disappointing result. On the balance of play we should have won but can’t complain about drawing if we play so conservatively. Scotland’s 3 in midfield dealt with our 2 too easily. We’re still missing that Modric type in midfield to be take the ball on the half turn and dominate possession. Thought Phillips played a bit scared like he usually has for England. I don’t really think there is a solution to the midfield issue with the squad at the moment. Think there’s a real call to drop Kane and give DCL a run out. Kane looks so far off it at the moment.

That said, it’s not a disaster or close to it. The game meant so much more to the Scotland players and fans than it could to the England players so it was always going to be a much harder game than it looked on paper. Any good tournament run generally has games like this, for England anyway.

I don't think Southgate will see this as a bad result. Of course with his conservative attitude he needs to take us further in the tournament if his approach is to be proved correct.

 

[Raees]

Yeah looks like a back 3 with Saka at RWB. Not having a go just made me laugh he's played basically every other position on the pitch except the one you've shown him in

Yeah I get your point.

Just on Kane - biggest flat track bully I’ve ever seen in England striker terms and doesn’t hold a candle to Linekar, Shearer and Owen.

Built his 2018 reputation against absolute cannon fodder.

 

[RoadTrip]

I thought Scotland had an excellent game, to be honest. Some of the chat above is talking as if Scotland just sat deep and defended a la Sweden vs Spain. But in my view I thought they came to play. Just wanted to say that first because I think as much as we can moan about England (and there is a lot to moan about), credit where credit is due.

But it’s just same old England, isn’t it? Hugely talented group of players on paper. But just cannot play together.

Which is fine. I can understand that because they don’t play or train together week in week out. But the thing that really bothers me is that when it clearly wasn’t working, Southgate didn’t change anything. 2 out of 5 subs all game. No changes at half time. No change in formation. Just swapping in 2 players, that’s it. I don’t like our tactics in the first place (2 DMs fine if we are playing France and intend to sit back and counter, but not in a game like yesterday) but it’s the fact we didn’t try anything different that bothered me.

And our team selection is also not good. I really hope he rethinks for the final group game.

 

[thepolice123]

Kane looks so off the pace. He is not even attacking balls into the box and less is said about his general play outside of it. I remember there was this play when Shaw broke into the box and tried a ridiculous outside foot shot ala Roberto Carlos. But on slow-mo replays you see he actually looked up and saw Kane wasn't even ready to attack the far post.

 

[RoadTrip]

Yeah I get your point.

Just on Kane - biggest flat track bully I’ve ever seen in England striker terms and doesn’t hold a candle to Linekar, Shearer and Owen.

Built his 2018 reputation against absolute cannon fodder.

Whilst I don’t entirely disagree, I really do think he just isn’t at full fitness / has some underlying issue. He was just that off the pace yesterday.

 

[RoadTrip]

Kane looks so off the pace. He is not even attacking balls into the box and less is said about his general play outside of it. I remember there was this play when Shaw broke into the box and tried a ridiculous outside foot shot ala Roberto Carlos. But on slow-mo replays you see he actually looked up and saw Kane wasn't even ready to attack the far post.

Yeah I recall. But that is slightly unfair on Kane, he was in the box but actually it just was that there was a defender in front of him which made crossing to him next to impossible. I didn’t remember Kane looking flat footed but I could be wrong.

But principally as I just posted I 100% agree. Split seconds make a difference and there is something up with Kane because he isn’t just split seconds off the pace at this point.

 

[thepolice123]

Yeah I recall. But that is slightly unfair on Kane, he was in the box but actually it just was that there was a defender in front of him which made crossing to him next to impossible. I didn’t remember Kane looking flat footed but I could be wrong.

But principally as I just posted I 100% agree. Split seconds make a difference and there is something up with Kane because he isn’t just split seconds off the pace at this point.

If he initated the action to attack it at least there's a chance. I mean OG has already struck twice from drilled crosses into the 6 yard box.

Don't know if he is carrying an injury or struggling to play in this set-up.