Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

Ainu

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But its his child... like if Mel's not pregnant then I can totally understand Owen's decision making. I also get the need they had to put him in the room when Joel gets 9 ironed because if he's not there its likely Ellie nor Tommy get out of their alive. Its just its kinda too often silly stuff like that happens as opposed to one thing on their own. Like Owen following Abby is fine, Owen allowing Mel or not turning back with Mel when he finds out she's carrying his child it gets iffy, then you add in Dina doing the same and it becomes a point of (do all pregnant women or parents really care more about their friend/lovers revenge quest than their own unborn child?). If one of these little things happened in isolation I'd say fine, but when they kept piling them up and they add up its becomes a mess.

I'll try and go a bit deeper. In the Joel scene alone.
Fair enough Tommy drops a feck up (twice) and that's possibly in character. Then Joel confirms it to a bunch of armed strangers (I get the argument living in Jackson may have dulled him a bit). Abby shoots him in the knee and minutes after he's saved her doesn't hesitate in taking him out, instead goes for slow beating (purely in there for shock value). While Abby is wasting time and endangering her entire group, Ellie arrives sees Abby clubbing Joel, has a clear shot from the hallway but walks into a room without shooting to get tackled. It all adds up to what to me is a mess. You have Joel behaving out of character, a pregnant woman being fine with chilling on a murder mission and her bf who admittedly cares for Abby more, Ellie behaving out of character and it all kind of feels so contrived and unnatural compared to the way bad shit plays out in TloU 1 if that makes sense. If the Joel scene happened in tlou then Abby gets shot in the head from the corridor by Ellie or Tess.

Theres no one thing that drives me insane as much as there a bunch of small things that makes everything seem off. As I said above, likely a huge amount of this is my love of the first game and me judging it harshly because of it but I just see so many contradictions to characters, so many silly mistakes that happen for writers convenience in comparison to the first game, its tarnishes some great plot points for me.
I mean, he doesn't seem to care. He was going to leave them both behind if he could've, before Mel arrived at the aquarium. You may find that hard to accept, but it is what it is.

Going over the rest of your post would take us too far. Something tells me I'm going to try to keep rationalising stuff and you're going to keep calling it contrived or silly. I feel that if you would apply the same level of scrutiny to literally every other piece of media out there, including the first game, there's not going to be a lot left. Like for example the end of the first game: why does Marlene insist on telling Joel the truth, knowing that would most likely have disastrous consequences? Why, having just done that, does she send just a single soldier with him, when he's clearly proven himself extremely capable and resourceful? Then he goes on to kill a small army and rescue Ellie and she has him at gunpoint at very close range, and she actually goes and puts her gun down. You're clearly less bothered about all of that but someone else could easily describe all of it as contrived and poor writing etc.
 

padr81

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I mean, he doesn't seem to care. He was going to leave them both behind if he could've, before Mel arrived at the aquarium. You may find that hard to accept, but it is what it is.

Going over the rest of your post would take us too far. Something tells me I'm going to try to keep rationalising stuff and you're going to keep calling it contrived or silly. I feel that if you would apply the same level of scrutiny to literally every other piece of media out there, including the first game, there's not going to be a lot left. Like for example the end of the first game: why does Marlene insist on telling Joel the truth, knowing that would most likely have disastrous consequences? Why, having just done that, does she send just a single soldier with him, when he's clearly proven himself extremely capable and resourceful? Then he goes on to kill a small army and rescue Ellie and she has him at gunpoint at very close range, and she actually goes and puts her gun down. You're clearly less bothered about all of that but someone else could easily describe all of it as contrived and poor writing etc.
Fair points actually, and with most media yes. I thought Marlene stupdily expected Joel to leave, but she knew she had an army. That's kinda it, if you look at the lengths they went to to make the first game flow then that's why the 2nd feels off. I mean the first game was supposed to be a revenge story across the country (Tess after Joel) and they binned it on the premise it was illogical for Joel to bring Ellie in the first place without a love interest (kinda to drive him) and b, a revenge story across an entire country over a year seemed silly to them . Characters aren't always right in pt1 but they are consistent. We're kinda talking in circles but heres the original plot for the first game and the ND said it needed changing then they went back with the sequel and just kinda integrated in there for the sequel despite their reservations originally.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2013/08/09/the-last-of-us-original-plot-ending-and-villain-revealed
 

Paxi

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Oh you beautiful beautiful day. Now I can play this for the first time. I held off until there was a 60fps patch. Now it’s getting switched on in all its glory. :drool: :drool:
 

BusbyMalone

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Oh you beautiful beautiful day. Now I can play this for the first time. I held off until there was a 60fps patch. Now it’s getting switched on in all its glory. :drool: :drool:
Enjoy. It's an incredible game. I would like to go back, but i already got the Platinum in it so there's nothing else to do. Glad they patched it though.
 

Massive Spanner

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It was amazing but it's hard to imagine playing again. It was really long for a game of that type and there were a few overly long segments in between the story that I don't like the thought of revisiting. It was also ridiculously depressing. A great game but I doubt I'll be going back to it any time soon. Shame as I replayed the first one three times as it didn't have those issues.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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Definitely. I was literally scared at various moments during gameplay when I played #1, but it was so beautiful. Expectations are high for #2.
Thats not what he means. The good news is that it looks amazing, plays better than the first but thats about all anyone agrees on. Hope you enjoy the game, buddy.
 

Berbasbullet

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It was amazing but it's hard to imagine playing again. It was really long for a game of that type and there were a few overly long segments in between the story that I don't like the thought of revisiting. It was also ridiculously depressing. A great game but I doubt I'll be going back to it any time soon. Shame as I replayed the first one three times as it didn't have those issues.
I need to give it more time before I go again, the ending man... stuck with me. In my opinion one of the best stories in a computer game ever in terms of caring and feeling actual emotion for a video game character.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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It was amazing but it's hard to imagine playing again. It was really long for a game of that type and there were a few overly long segments in between the story that I don't like the thought of revisiting. It was also ridiculously depressing. A great game but I doubt I'll be going back to it any time soon. Shame as I replayed the first one three times as it didn't have those issues.
I replayed the first game over two dozen times I loved it that much. Its one of the only story driven games Ive ever started right back up again after finishing it. I loved the first one like when I was a kid loving a game. If that makes sense.

This though? Even if I did like it, I cant imagine Id be interested in sitting through the slower parts of the game again. Like the conversation on Judaism between Ellie and Dina. Interesting, sure. But every single play through? Hard pass.
 

Paxi

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I’ve never actually touched it. Well I have. Got as far as the time they all went golfing. It’s certainly looks amazing on and OLED with HDR on. I’ve still reservations about the actual story though. Nevertheless, I’ll enjoy the graphics and the 60fps.
 

laughtersassassin

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Played it twice so far. Once when released.

Then when they added Grounded I played the last of us 1 and 2 back to back.

Will play again in the next few weeks and probably get all the trophies. (Only really do that with my favourite games)

My opinion flipped on the last of us remake now too. Excited to be able to play both 1 and 2 and for them to be similar quality graphics and gamplay wise

Although I still love the gameplay in part 1.
 

CassiusClaymore

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Finally smashed through this on the PS5 and it was a relentlessly grim but exhilarating ride.

Thought the dovetailing of both Ellie and Abbie's journey was done well enough. In fact for what I thought was an irredeemably appalling act at the start they did quite well to make her a sympathetic character come the end and I was actually annoyed that the game was trying to make me kill her in the final act.

Gameplay wise, it was much stronger in the second half as well with some really great set pieces. The sky bridges, Island rescue and especially the hospital basement were incredible. The hospital was straight out of a resident evil game and I audibly let out a scream during that bit in the ventilation shaft :lol:

Only slight criticism is maybe it dragged a little by adding that extra bit in Santa Barbara although it did introduce another great weapon into the mix so I'll let if off. Oh and I could've certainly done without baby farm family simulator just before it. Cut scene for that please.

Certainly worthy of its awards though and I think on balance more memorable than part one.
 

BusbyMalone

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Quite funny going back and reading all the pissing and moaning from reading/watching spoilers before even playing it.
What a time that was :lol:

People with the wrong information absolutely adamant that they were right, already calling the game a disaster without even picking the controller up for themselves. And then they proceeded to double down when being called out!

Glad you enjoyed it though. I do agree that the game is probably too long, but personally, I think it's better than the first game. I think the writing, story, and gameplay is far superior in this one. Arguably one of the best games on the PS4, along with Bloodborne.
 
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BusbyMalone

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Still waiting for that fecking multiplayer.
Yeah, I thought it would have been out by now. But it would indicate that it is far more ambitious and bigger than what I initially thought it would be. Which is obviously good news.
 

el3mel

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Nothing regarding my opinion on this game changed. Actually the more time passed the more my problems grew more. I honestly want to forget that I ever played this game and just treat part 1 and its DLC as the end of this story and that 2 didn't exist or isn't canon.
 

Balljy

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What a time that was :lol:

People with the wrong information absolutely adamant that they were right, already calling the game a disaster without even picking the controller up for themselves. And then they proceeded to double down when being called out!

Glad you enjoyed it though. I do agree that the game is probably too long, but personally, I think it's better than the first game. I think the writing, story, and gameplay is far superior in this one. Arguably one of the best games on the PS4, along with Bloodborne.
I agree with that. I think the thought behind and pacing for the game are superior to the first one and the character switch worked so well for me. Allowing us to see the story from the other side is very unusual in any form of art, not just games.

The need for another playthrough is growing on me and I will give it a second run through in the next few months. Weirdly I didn't do that on the first one as I stopped playing it and picked up the remastered version which I then ran through the whole game with.
 

Lay

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I finally finished it last week. I’d give it about 7 or 8 out of 10.

Act 2 had much better gameplay but I couldn’t get immersed into the character of Abby. I didn’t mind Lev though but he was a bit useless I found. But I steamrolled through it in the end and was glad I wasn’t playing as Abby anymore. I hated the whole sympathy route they went. I still would have killed Abby if a choice was available.

The gripes I have is that I felt like I was watching a movie sometimes. I don’t care for that many cut scenes especially when I have 3 kids and a limited time to play. Just give me more action.

The farm/baby simulator as pointed out above was also not needed and felt like a cutscene that you can navigate around.

I did enjoy a lot of the gameplay though and enjoyed fighting the infected. The stalkers I found to be the most difficult, the wankers always jump scared me.

Enjoyable game and I like the world they created but unlike the first one, not a game I would pick up to play through again.
 

Sylar

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I was actually annoyed that the game was trying to make me kill her in the final act.
Thinking about it, this would have worked as a cut scene and been acceptable just watching it happen as we had quite a few fights between them before
 

CassiusClaymore

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Thinking about it, this would have worked as a cut scene and been acceptable just watching it happen as we had quite a few fights between them before
Yeah I would've been fine with that.

Like I've said before the combat in this game is absolutely sublime. I don't think guns have ever felt more visceral. Oh and I highly recommend explosive arrows on people. :lol:
 

Sylar

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Yeah I would've been fine with that.

Like I've said before the combat in this game is absolutely sublime. I don't think guns have ever felt more visceral. Oh and I highly recommend explosive arrows on people. :lol:
I used those on dogs or I would leave a little bomb knowing the dog would follow my trail... Oops
 

esmufc07

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Nothing regarding my opinion on this game changed. Actually the more time passed the more my problems grew more. I honestly want to forget that I ever played this game and just treat part 1 and its DLC as the end of this story and that 2 didn't exist or isn't canon.
What did you not like?
 

el3mel

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What did you not like?
Eh..kinda a lot. Where do I begin ?

1 - TLOU part 1 hit all the marks and was a big success as because it was a personal, character driven story in my opinion, not because of its extraordinary plot or revolutionary gameplay. The plot itself wasn't something extraordinary when you look into it (Joel had a mission to transport Ellie to the Flies for the vaccine), so the game decided to take a different approach, decided to not focus on this actual plot that much and more on the personal relationship between Joel, Ellie and the side characters, and the outcome of such relationships. That's why TLOU was so remarkable as a story, because it put the characters and their development as the main spot point, and hence why the ending was so powerful. TLOU2 was basically just a cliched revenge plot with a pretty typical message about "revenge is bad and will feck up your life". All the characters were either under developed or just poorly written, trying so hard to force you to sympathize with them rather than leaving the choice for the player to decide if he should or not. The game just didn't know what made part 1 tick. It wasn't the main plot, it was the writing and development of characters. If you removed this element you will be left with an Ok plot at best which is the problem of part 2 story.

2- Regarding the cliched revenge plot, it all felt forced, as if they had no ideas about how to write a story for the second part then just remembered a - literally - no name, unimportant character in part 1 who appeared for less than few seconds and decided to make his death the main center of the revenge plot of the second game. Like really ? You expect me to sympathize with Abby for the death of her father whom I saw for few seconds in the first game, by trying to show some flashbacks for him and Abby in this one ? Come on. Not to mention that the doctor was actually threatening Joel with his scalpel. This is all follows the same trend of trying to force players to care about characters even if they're underdeveloped, just because the developer wants to, you have to as well.

3- The side characters in this game was bad, like, really poorly written and serve no purpose for the story, neither do they have any emotional impact on the players. Jesse and Dina were pointless characters, cut them and you won't miss anything. I legit didn't give a shit when Jesse was killed. He was barely even in the story for me to care about him.. Compare this to Sam and Henry in part 1, their relationship with Joel and Ellie and how their story unfolded and got concluded, and how it had a heavy impact on the player, in comparison to Dina and Jesse's plot lines. This is another point of how the second part just didn't understand what made the first part great. It wasn't the main plot, it was the characters and their relationships.

4- The Abby section was really a drag in terms of the story and the direction was terrible. It's the epitome example of the game trying so hard to force me to care for he when I really couldn't. The game cuts the story at its climax when Ellie and Abby face each other at the theatre just to set you through a 10 hours of a pointless journey with Abby, her crew and this child, before returning to the same point again, just all a try to mimic Joel and Ellie's journey from the first game, and shows you the similarities between both. The difference is the relationship between Joel and Ellie had a lot of time in the first game to develop naturally, and not just undercooked like Abby and that kid. These 10 hours served nothing bar dragging the story for me. This game suffers a lot from trying to be deep and complex by just painting everyone in grey color and telling you "look, there's no black and white in this world, everyone just fights for their own survival". This point is good when done right, but part 2 overdid it, and it eventually hurt it, and weirdly, contradicts itself a little bit when it tries so hard to force you to believe Joel was mistaken when he saved Ellie instead of letting her be sacrificed, even though he was also doing what's best for himself, like every other one in this world.

5- I honestly have a problem with a certain aspect which isn't mentioned a lot, but I feel this game has a pretty big ludonarrative dissonance problem. Ellie slaughtered ton of people throughout her journey without shedding a tear, has been a survival for years but she got a panic attack because a woman she killed was pregnant ? Like, come on. Considering the fact that, I said above, the game tried a lot to tell you that those people killed by Ellie are actual humans and not just NPCs by making them call each other in horror when their teammates die in an encounter, and Ellie was still slaughtering them without losing her cool, to see her going into a panic attack just because of the pregnancy aspect didn't fit what I was doing in the game. Same for the ending, which as I said at the start, very cliched when it comes to these revenge stories.

6- Joel's death I believe was discussed to death, but I still refuse to believe the man who was shown to be an ultimate survivor with ton of experience in the wildness let himself and his brother go so easily with an unknown group without him shown any concerns during the journey, or even telling his brother to be careful and cautious around them. He didn't even look mad when his brother said his name in front of them, but just followed so causally by saying his name as well. I can expect it from his brother considering he didn't fight in the wild that much but Joel ? The guy should have been warning his brother to take extra caution if they're going to the hideout of an unknown in a world where everyone wants to kill each other.

7- Let's talk about the gameplay a little bit. The game was solid, the gameplay wasn't bad or boring at all, it was mostly an improvement on the mechanics present in part 1, but it missed a lot of opportunities. This game had the potential to be better in gameplay, rather than ending up just an improved version of part 1. The open area at the start of the game was done really well, but then you reach the theatre and you discover that this is literally the only open area with optional content in the game ? I couldn't believe it. Why build such a a great area just for one chapter, then make the rest of the game fully linear ? When I reached the theatre I thought the game will be like a hub area with this theatre as the center of operations, with new areas opening up for me in this open area the more I progress, before turning into linear in the last few hours of the game, but no, the game gives you a nice open area to explore in first chapter then strips it away from you and leaves you with yet another linear experience. I thought Naughty Dog were done with this experience in Uncharted Lost Legacy. I thought they tested it in this game to see the reaction and will go one stop forward in TLOU 2 but unfortunately, they played it pretty safe. Compare this to say, a very recent example which is Resident Evil Village, it gives you a consistent small open are which opens gradually for you as you progress alongside linear segments that cuts the exploration from time to time, or Metro Exodus, which gives you a full small open area in every chapter to explore freely. It was the perfect time for Naughty Dog to take this decision for the entire game, and not just for the first chapter.

8- Abby's section, regardless of it dragging the story and honestly doesn't help the plot in any way imo (Except for forcing you to feel for her because the developer wants so, as I said), has a big problem in the gameplay imo, that Abby is really nothing different from Ellie when it comes to the combat. Abby's weapons were basically a variation of Ellie's. 2 handguns, a different kind of shotgun, a different kind of rifle, a crossbow instead of bow and arrow..etc. Really ? If you're going to make me play full 10 more hours with a new character why not make her having a more unique and unorthodox set of weapons to make these 10 hours different from the first ones ?
 

One Night Only

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Amazing how much effort you just put into a post for something you didn't like :lol: I applaud you, I'd have just replied "it was shit"
 

esmufc07

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Eh..kinda a lot. Where do I begin ?

1 - TLOU part 1 hit all the marks and was a big success as because it was a personal, character driven story in my opinion, not because of its extraordinary plot or revolutionary gameplay. The plot itself wasn't something extraordinary when you look into it (Joel had a mission to transport Ellie to the Flies for the vaccine), so the game decided to take a different approach, decided to not focus on this actual plot that much and more on the personal relationship between Joel, Ellie and the side characters, and the outcome of such relationships. That's why TLOU was so remarkable as a story, because it put the characters and their development as the main spot point, and hence why the ending was so powerful. TLOU2 was basically just a cliched revenge plot with a pretty typical message about "revenge is bad and will feck up your life". All the characters were either under developed or just poorly written, trying so hard to force you to sympathize with them rather than leaving the choice for the player to decide if he should or not. The game just didn't know what made part 1 tick. It wasn't the main plot, it was the writing and development of characters. If you removed this element you will be left with an Ok plot at best which is the problem of part 2 story.

2- Regarding the cliched revenge plot, it all felt forced, as if they had no ideas about how to write a story for the second part then just remembered a - literally - no name, unimportant character in part 1 who appeared for less than few seconds and decided to make his death the main center of the revenge plot of the second game. Like really ? You expect me to sympathize with Abby for the death of her father whom I saw for few seconds in the first game, by trying to show some flashbacks for him and Abby in this one ? Come on. Not to mention that the doctor was actually threatening Joel with his scalpel. This is all follows the same trend of trying to force players to care about characters even if they're underdeveloped, just because the developer wants to, you have to as well.

3- The side characters in this game was bad, like, really poorly written and serve no purpose for the story, neither do they have any emotional impact on the players. Jesse and Dina were pointless characters, cut them and you won't miss anything. I legit didn't give a shit when Jesse was killed. He was barely even in the story for me to care about him.. Compare this to Sam and Henry in part 1, their relationship with Joel and Ellie and how their story unfolded and got concluded, and how it had a heavy impact on the player, in comparison to Dina and Jesse's plot lines. This is another point of how the second part just didn't understand what made the first part great. It wasn't the main plot, it was the characters and their relationships.

4- The Abby section was really a drag in terms of the story and the direction was terrible. It's the epitome example of the game trying so hard to force me to care for he when I really couldn't. The game cuts the story at its climax when Ellie and Abby face each other at the theatre just to set you through a 10 hours of a pointless journey with Abby, her crew and this child, before returning to the same point again, just all a try to mimic Joel and Ellie's journey from the first game, and shows you the similarities between both. The difference is the relationship between Joel and Ellie had a lot of time in the first game to develop naturally, and not just undercooked like Abby and that kid. These 10 hours served nothing bar dragging the story for me. This game suffers a lot from trying to be deep and complex by just painting everyone in grey color and telling you "look, there's no black and white in this world, everyone just fights for their own survival". This point is good when done right, but part 2 overdid it, and it eventually hurt it, and weirdly, contradicts itself a little bit when it tries so hard to force you to believe Joel was mistaken when he saved Ellie instead of letting her be sacrificed, even though he was also doing what's best for himself, like every other one in this world.

5- I honestly have a problem with a certain aspect which isn't mentioned a lot, but I feel this game has a pretty big ludonarrative dissonance problem. Ellie slaughtered ton of people throughout her journey without shedding a tear, has been a survival for years but she got a panic attack because a woman she killed was pregnant ? Like, come on. Considering the fact that, I said above, the game tried a lot to tell you that those people killed by Ellie are actual humans and not just NPCs by making them call each other in horror when their teammates die in an encounter, and Ellie was still slaughtering them without losing her cool, to see her going into a panic attack just because of the pregnancy aspect didn't fit what I was doing in the game. Same for the ending, which as I said at the start, very cliched when it comes to these revenge stories.

6- Joel's death I believe was discussed to death, but I still refuse to believe the man who was shown to be an ultimate survivor with ton of experience in the wildness let himself and his brother go so easily with an unknown group without him shown any concerns during the journey, or even telling his brother to be careful and cautious around them. He didn't even look mad when his brother said his name in front of them, but just followed so causally by saying his name as well. I can expect it from his brother considering he didn't fight in the wild that much but Joel ? The guy should have been warning his brother to take extra caution if they're going to the hideout of an unknown in a world where everyone wants to kill each other.

7- Let's talk about the gameplay a little bit. The game was solid, the gameplay wasn't bad or boring at all, it was mostly an improvement on the mechanics present in part 1, but it missed a lot of opportunities. This game had the potential to be better in gameplay, rather than ending up just an improved version of part 1. The open area at the start of the game was done really well, but then you reach the theatre and you discover that this is literally the only open area with optional content in the game ? I couldn't believe it. Why build such a a great area just for one chapter, then make the rest of the game fully linear ? When I reached the theatre I thought the game will be like a hub area with this theatre as the center of operations, with new areas opening up for me in this open area the more I progress, before turning into linear in the last few hours of the game, but no, the game gives you a nice open area to explore in first chapter then strips it away from you and leaves you with yet another linear experience. I thought Naughty Dog were done with this experience in Uncharted Lost Legacy. I thought they tested it in this game to see the reaction and will go one stop forward in TLOU 2 but unfortunately, they played it pretty safe. Compare this to say, a very recent example which is Resident Evil Village, it gives you a consistent small open are which opens gradually for you as you progress alongside linear segments that cuts the exploration from time to time, or Metro Exodus, which gives you a full small open area in every chapter to explore freely. It was the perfect time for Naughty Dog to take this decision for the entire game, and not just for the first chapter.

8- Abby's section, regardless of it dragging the story and honestly doesn't help the plot in any way imo (Except for forcing you to feel for her because the developer wants so, as I said), has a big problem in the gameplay imo, that Abby is really nothing different from Ellie when it comes to the combat. Abby's weapons were basically a variation of Ellie's. 2 handguns, a different kind of shotgun, a different kind of rifle, a crossbow instead of bow and arrow..etc. Really ? If you're going to make me play full 10 more hours with a new character why not make her having a more unique and unorthodox set of weapons to make these 10 hours different from the first ones ?
I disagree with most of what you said but I don’t have the energy to write a huge reply like yours :lol:
 

Bosws87

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I thought it dragged a little that's the only real negative i can think of, some parts were a chore to get through.

The 1st one is the better of the two just for the storyline and ending, very fight club like in that the first playthrough is special, but once you know the twist it's not the same.
 

Stack

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I disagree with most of what you said but I don’t have the energy to write a huge reply like yours :lol:
Im with you in disagreeing with most of what he said and not having the energy to reply. However I am biased in I think the game is a masterpiece and part of that is because its such a brutally unhappy story. The first one I loved too but thats a bit feel good at the end in some ways.
 

el3mel

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I thought people will be interested in a long discussion so I went all out but turns out you're such lazy posters. :D :lol:
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
20,058
Location
England
Asks why someone doesn’t like the game.

Shocked at a long reply :lol:
 

Stack

Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
13,332
Location
Auckland New Zealand
I thought people will be interested in a long discussion so I went all out but turns out you're such lazy posters. :D :lol:
Fair point. I disagree with most of your points but thought you made a good case for your point of view. I thought your long posting was a good one.
 

Norman Brownbutter

ask him about his bath time mishap
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
1,668
Amazing how much effort you just put into a post for something you didn't like :lol: I applaud you, I'd have just replied "it was shit"
Its because the first game meant so much to some people. they really loved it. They really loved the characters the world etc. And to be honest there’s so much “you just didn’t play it” being fired back at people who just say “it was shit”. Or worse, “you just didn’t understand it.”. Like there was anything deep to be had in this game.