Germany - Euro 2021 discussion

[KC91]

They probably deserved a draw based on the play, had the better chances before Sterlings goal.

Sums up a pretty mediocre tournament for Germany, good performance vs Portugal, and the other 3 performances were pretty forgettable. Should be in a better position to challenge for the 2022 WC or 2024 Euros.

 

[ForEverEleven]

Best news today is that the Löw era is over, showed zero courage today again, playing it safe and slow. We can field a starting eleven consisting of WC and CL winners and he produces this garbage. Should´ve left after the 2018 disaster.
Hope Flick can turn things around, he knows his Bayern players and can bring the best out of them and the young players like Havertz, Musiala, Wirtz, Moukoko etc are certainly something to look forward to.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Garbage.

From what I could tell, their game plan was to punt long balls onto Harry Maguires head

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Hummels still looks quality for the most part, albeit slow, but Muller, Kroos and Neuer look done.

They're not done imo. Neuer and Müller had good recent season on the highest level and were keystones for the CL victory and the domestic campaign. They shouldn't be judged just by these 4 games. The team is dysfunctional as a whole, even Kimmich looked like very poorly. It's just easier to pick on these rather old players and blame Löw for choosing them. But if you actually look at their performances in the last 2 seasons, it's absolutely justified to play them.

They'll be among the favourites for the World Cup with France if Flick takes over and Zidane takes France over IMO. Low should've been replaced 3 years ago.

I rate Flick very highly and hope you're right. I'm not so sure, though. There's a lack of quality players, especially defensive ones. That's a huge issue and you can't expect this to drastically change in the upcoming time until the world cup.

Thank god Löw is gone. He should've left after winning the world cup and go out on a high. Those last two tournaments were abysmal.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Not sure about Southgate's tactics in the long run but he completely snuffled out the wing backs and Germany had feck all that they could offer besides capitalising on any individual mistakes.

 

[Kasper]

Laughable play all around, love Löw going out like that. Utterly static boring football, only Havertz with some sparks of life in that attacking play.

Also once again an important message for the future that, Löw aside, the Bayern lobby needs to be ignored when it comes to their players. Müller an absolute donkey out there, I´m sure we`ll se some fancy stats from @Blackwidow how he makes daisies grow quicker around him with his presence but my godness, even Werner couldn't have done worse. Time to send him back to his horse farm in Bavarian wasteland.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Very poor. Although the main reason they lost was England taking their two big chances while Germany missed theirs.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

They're not done imo. Neuer and Müller had good recent season on the highest level and were keystones for the CL victory and the domestic campaign. They shouldn't be judged just by these 4 games. The team is dysfunctional as a whole, even Kimmich looked like very poorly. It's just easier to pick on these rather old players and blame Löw for choosing them. But if you actually look at their performances in the last 2 seasons, it's absolutely justified to play them.

To be clear, I'm not being critical of their selection but watching them this tournament I wouldn't select them again. Time to move on.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

To be clear, I'm not being critical of their selection but watching them this tournament I wouldn't select them again. Time to move on.

My point is that judging by this tournament alone you'd basically leave everybody of those players at home.

 

[Piratesoup]

I half expected a group stage exit, so well done, lads.

Löw is gone, so in the end everybody won. Kinda. I still can't believe we let this guy waste 5 years from 2016 to now.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Getting past that group was an achivement in itself, though it's ironic both Portugal and France have been knocked out themselves, so maybe they weren't that good actually.

One thing I will say about the match, as much as he's been criticized, Kroos ran himself into the ground today. It was a really good performance as a DM and he helped solidify the defense, while also being good with the ball. Most I've seen him run off and on the ball for Germany for a good 4 years.

 

[BayernFan87]

Laughable play all around, love Löw going out like that. Utterly static boring football, only Havertz with some sparks of life in that attacking play.

Also once again an important message for the future that, Löw aside, the Bayern lobby needs to be ignored when it comes to their players. Müller an absolute donkey out there, I´m sure we`ll se some fancy stats from @Blackwidow how he makes daisies grow quicker around him with his presence but my godness, even Werner couldn't have done worse. Time to send him back to his horse farm in Bavarian wasteland.

Yeah it's clearly the fault of the "Bayern lobby" (wtf?) and Müller when the same players just won 6 titles in one year with a competent manager.

Löw is a donkey. The decline started in 2016 for everyone to see. He should have been sacked after 2018.

There were so many reports that the team would prefer to play with 4 at the back. Yet Löw was stubborn and sticked to his formation. But yeah its Müllers fault because he didn't win it in his own (I'm not saying he played a good tournament but he certainly wasn't worse than Gnabry, Sané, Werner or Volland).

The team had to play in a formation they are not really used to, with players like Hummels and Müller that weren't in the team for the past 3 years.

And today when England scored the 1:0 Löw waited more than 10 minutes to bring on Sané on the position of the left wing back and fecking Emre Can. And in the 91th minute he finally brought on Musiala who has shown against Hungary that he is a special talent against team that defend deep.

But yeah, it wasn't Löws fault, the "Bayern lobby" (again, wtf?) is to blame, feck off

 

[BayernFan87]

Getting past that group was an achivement in itself, though it's ironic both Portugal and France have been knocked out themselves, so maybe they weren't that good actually.

One thing I will say about the match, as much as he's been criticized, Kroos ran himself into the ground today. It was a really good performance as a DM and he helped solidify the defense, while also being good with the ball. Most I've seen him run off and on the ball for Germany for a good 4 years.

True. I'm far from his biggest fan but overall he was our best player in the tournament next to Havertz and maybe Hummels.

 

[hasanejaz88]

True. I'm far from his biggest fan but overall he was our best player in the tournament next to Havertz and maybe Hummels.

Hummels was amazing today, on the losing side but one of the best players overall. When it comes to the big games, he can be an amazing defender.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

My point is that judging by this tournament alone you'd basically leave everybody of those players at home.

Yes, that's not a mystery. None of them impressed.

 

[rimaldo]

german football 1900-2021

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Also once again an important message for the future that, Löw aside, the Bayern lobby needs to be ignored when it comes to their players. Müller an absolute donkey out there, I´m sure we`ll se some fancy stats from @Blackwidow how he makes daisies grow quicker around him with his presence but my godness, even Werner couldn't have done worse. Time to send him back to his horse farm in Bavarian wasteland.

one of the worst posts I‘ve ever seen on here

 

[Siorac]

Garbage.

From what I could tell, their game plan was to punt long balls onto Harry Maguires head

I think that's a tad harsh. The real difference between the teams was that England took their big chances, Germany missed their own. Neither team played particularly well.

 

[sincher]

I think they got their selection and tactics a bit wrong. Werner was not worth a place over Gnabry or Sane, for example.

 

[do.ob]

Getting past that group was an achivement in itself, though it's ironic both Portugal and France have been knocked out themselves, so maybe they weren't that good actually.

One thing I will say about the match, as much as he's been criticized, Kroos ran himself into the ground today. It was a really good performance as a DM and he helped solidify the defense, while also being good with the ball. Most I've seen him run off and on the ball for Germany for a good 4 years.

It's true, he seemed to put in a lot of effort today. On the other hand die Mannschaft basically played in a 532 and as a whole sacrificed a ton of attacking prowess to close the areas around him. England equally played without a a central midfield to speak of in attack or well executed counter attacks and mostyl tried to break through on the wings, far away from Toni's natural habitat. So going forward it doesn't really proof a lot.

Laughable play all around, love Löw going out like that. Utterly static boring football, only Havertz with some sparks of life in that attacking play.

Also once again an important message for the future that, Löw aside, the Bayern lobby needs to be ignored when it comes to their players. Müller an absolute donkey out there, I´m sure we`ll se some fancy stats from @Blackwidow how he makes daisies grow quicker around him with his presence but my godness, even Werner couldn't have done worse. Time to send him back to his horse farm in Bavarian wasteland.

Who really had a good tournament? Hummels? Havertz maybe, but only because the others have set the bar so low, Goretzka possibly, but he barely played.
Gosens had one amazing game against Portugal and wasn't utilized at all in the other three games. Rüdiger, with his wild positioning was a liability, as was Kimmich. Neuer and Ginter shat the bed against Hungary. Toni allowed people to kroos past him all the time with great effect during group stages. Gündogan didn't impact the attack enough for someone with such little defensive presence. Gnabry was sort of anonymous. Müller had one good game against Portugal and didn't really stick out in the others, aside from missing a chance he just has to score today.

Die Mannschaft as a whole was just a terribly dysfunctional mess and it has been for years. Every attacker looked weak and ineffective, all the defensive players were put into hot water at various times. Is there a single player who has consistently looked good since 2018? Now Flick has to pick up the pieces and try to find a cohesive system for die Mannschaft. Only then will we be able to judge who should be a part and who shouldn't. Except for Werner, until he stops being such a joke in front of goal he has to stay out. Can't afford to use players who you know will let you down when it matters.

 

[Oranges038]

After seemingly getting it right with player development over the years. This Germany squad was terribly unbalanced and lacking in any sort of attacking creativity, lacking pace, very predictable and very slow on the ball for the most part.

Not sure they have enough coming through either to improve on what they currently have either. Best attacking players in the Bundesliga aren't German either, they need fresh legs and fresh ideas in nearly every department.

 

[Droid_Repairs]

Germany seemed out of sorts, and have done since 2018. They looked like they did not care. Tactically quite negative, and I don't understand why you started Werner.

I'm sure that Löw will always be remembered as a legend for them for his world cup win in 2014, but I think this is the right time for somebody else to take over.

I wonder if this will be the last time we see Thomas Müller playing for Germany.

 

[do.ob]

After seemingly getting it right with player development over the years. This Germany squad was terribly unbalanced and lacking in any sort of attacking creativity, lacking pace, very predictable and very slow on the ball for the most part.

Not sure they have enough coming through either to improve on what they currently have either. Best attacking players in the Bundesliga aren't German either, they need fresh legs and fresh ideas in nearly every department.

Talent isn't the issue (yet), Löw had enough options to field a strong squad and I'm optimistic that Flick will turn things around into a respectable position again. Even if it's not the same level as 2012-16.

That being said Musiala, Wirtz and Moukoko are three very highly rated young attacking players, Baku is looking like a possible answer on the right side. It's not as much talent output as there should be, but some of them will probably develop into valuable players for die Mannschaft. Havertz seems to have plenty room to grow as well.

If Baku were to work out that alone would already be a huge improvement, as that would enable a cohesive foundation to the team:
-----------------------Neuer/ter Stegen
----------calamity------Hummels-----Rüdiger
Baku----------Kimmich-------Goretzka----------Gosens

two actual WBs, who are natural fits in a back five and two CMs, who are complete enough to fill a midfield two with life.

 

[VorZakone]

I think Flick was a great appointment. He'll do well for Germany.

 

[Marwood]

It's always going to be difficult when you haven't really got a striker.

And when you haven't got that goalscorer it seems to prompt managers into overcomplicating tactics and set up.

 

[Lash]

Said at the start of the tournament, not enough goals in Germany. You usually have a golden boot contender every year and was clear that was missing this year. No clear no 9. Werner's chance should be put away and Muller's by a Klose or even a Gomez.

 

[Droid_Repairs]

Said at the start of the tournament, not enough goals in Germany. You usually have a golden boot contender every year and was clear that was missing this year. No clear no 9. Werner's chance should be put away and Muller's by a Klose or even a Gomez.

Klose would probably have scored those two chances today, even at 43!

 

[Lash]

Klose would probably have scored those two chances today, even at 43!

Exactly!

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Germany seemed out of sorts, and have done since 2018. They looked like they did not care. Tactically quite negative, and I don't understand why you started Werner.

I'm sure that Löw will always be remembered as a legend for them for his world cup win in 2014, but I think this is the right time for somebody else to take over.

he wont be remembered as a legend because of the last two tournaments tbh

 

[do.ob]

2018 was bad, but probably would have been weighed up against the 2014 WC win, but not stepping down, the farce with the three banished players and the shame of this tournament will make him the one who lost the plot, but wasted two tournaments, because he was too proud or selfish to step down.

 

[TheGame]

Germany will be back for the next tournament. Fresh and winning manager, good youngsters.

 

[Hansi Fick]

This campaign was doomed by Löw's insistence on starting Kroos ahead of a 3 man defense

 

[Piratesoup]

This campaign was doomed by Löw's insistence on starting Kroos ahead of a 3 man defense

Yup. Him trying so long trying to make Kroos - Gündogan work didn't help, either.

 

[Oranges038]

Talent isn't the issue (yet), Löw had enough options to field a strong squad and I'm optimistic that Flick will turn things around into a respectable position again. Even if it's not the same level as 2012-16.

That being said Musiala, Wirtz and Moukoko are three very highly rated young attacking players, Baku is looking like a possible answer on the right side. It's not as much talent output as there should be, but some of them will probably develop into valuable players for die Mannschaft. Havertz seems to have plenty room to grow as well.

If Baku were to work out that alone would already be a huge improvement, as that would enable a cohesive foundation to the team:
-----------------------Neuer/ter Stegen
----------calamity------Hummels-----Rüdiger
Baku----------Kimmich-------Goretzka----------Gosens

two actual WBs, who are natural fits in a back five and two CMs, who are complete enough to fill a midfield two with life.

To me it seems Low was just happy to see this tournament out and leave. He kept his sqaud selection safe, his first 11 and tactics were terrible and too safe and one dimensional. Bar Semedo helping them out with a nightmare performance they didn't look dangerous at all.

The production line seems to be a low level for Germany now. Ginter is not up to much, Hummels is nearly done, that leaves you with Rudiger as about the best of them. Centre midfield is looking ok. Right back needs to be fixed, Baku might be that player.

With this squad there was a real lack of attacking options. Chasing a game and he brings on Sane and Emre Can on 87 minutes and leaves Musiala on the bench until the 90th minute.

Surely Draxler is as good as any of them, why was he not picked? You have Volland, Neuhaus sat on the bench, not sure they are really up to much at international level either.

Assuming the new guy keeps the 352.

Neuer/Ter Stegen

Rudiger, CB,CB

RWB,Kimmich, Goerextka, Gosens

Gnabry, *Werner, *Sane

That leaves about 3 players needed to fill gaps in the first 11 alone, and if you think about how Sane and Werner are performing, that leaves 2 more positions that could need filling.

Edit. Meant Rudiger not Sule.

 

[Zehner]

The formation he picked with the 3-4-3 was just a terrible decision. If there's one area in which Germany is stacked with players and probably better than any other team in the world, it is the midfield, and he chooses to play only two CMs and that even in a system that's not suiting them.

And then the team had only one attacking plan: Overload the wings and create chances over Kimmich and Gosens. If the opponent prevented that, Germany had absolutely zero ideas how to unlock the defense. I'm still wondering if all those silly high passes and premature crosses were actually by design or just desperate attempts out of improvisation because they had no plan B.

It's also questionable if bringing back Hummels and Müller was a good idea. Müller had an incredibly dull tournament and Hummels I believe was part of the reason why Löw sticked with the 3-4-3. Playing Hummels and Rüdiger as the only CBs would mean that Rüdiger would have to play vastly differently to what he is used to do.

To me, the bottom line is that Löw tried to appeal to the public instead of doing what was right even against public pressure. It's the common theme ever since the 2018 WC. He was a lame duck since then - not because the players didn't listen but because he became opportunistic. Would love if Spain now wins the EC with the brand of football Löw once idolized.

 

[Aboutreika18]

First tournament defeat against France since 1958 (in 2016) and first knockout stage defeat against England since 1966.

For all his faults, Löw is a record breaker.

 

[do.ob]

To me, the bottom line is that Löw tried to appeal to the public instead of doing what was right even against public pressure. It's the common theme ever since the 2018 WC. He was a lame duck since then - not because the players didn't listen but because he became opportunistic. Would love if Spain now wins the EC with the brand of football Löw once idolized.

True. "What made Löw doubt himself after 2018" is one of the great questions of our time, that we will never be able to answer. All he needed to do was go on like he did before.

 

[crossy1686]

Getting past that group was an achivement in itself, though it's ironic both Portugal and France have been knocked out themselves, so maybe they weren't that good actually.

One thing I will say about the match, as much as he's been criticized, Kroos ran himself into the ground today. It was a really good performance as a DM and he helped solidify the defense, while also being good with the ball. Most I've seen him run off and on the ball for Germany for a good 4 years.

Three teams qualify. That's a 75% chance to qualify from the group. That's a pretty low bar as far as achievements go.

 

[Poltophagy]

True. "What made Löw doubt himself after 2018" is one of the great questions of our time, that we will never be able to answer. All he needed to do was go on like he did before.

Shouldn't it be obvious why he started doubting himself after 2018?

 

[do.ob]

Shouldn't it be obvious why he started doubting himself after 2018?

Next time I will add white text, just for you.