England fans, what is wrong with England fans?

[Neo_Mufc]

Tik tok et al are to blame too. The videos of how to jib into wembley were doing the rounds before the game.

A large majority of young gangs were doing it yesterday including grown men. A lot of people got hurt from it.

 

[Acrobat7]

Tik tok et al are to blame too. The videos of how to jib into wembley were doing the rounds before the game.

A large majority of young gangs were doing it yesterday including grown men. A lot of people got hurt from it.

No, the people are to blame. Not the media

 

[Calidad]

Tik tok et al are to blame too. The videos of how to jib into wembley were doing the rounds before the game.

A large majority of young gangs were doing it yesterday including grown men. A lot of people got hurt from it.

Where were the police? Seem to be entirely absent from the videos that have been circulating. Lack of planning, or concern that that their presence would be viewed negatively?

I think one thing that gets overlooked is that the majority of continental Europe has pretty robust police forces, and people wouldn’t get away with half of the stuff they do over here. I read in a news article today that ticketless fans have regularly been getting into Wembley during the Euros because the checks are so poor and/or the stewards are too fearful to do their jobs properly, and who can blame them.

 

[Zaphod2319]

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[FatTails]

Everyone saying alcohol but we don’t see these scenes weekly in the PL, do we? PL games mostly feature drunk English people too!

There is something particular about the national team that makes things worse, it seems.

 

[RedChisel]

Do you address an issue by deflecting from it or using whataboutism? Do you think England is inherently worse, outside of literal hooli' culture, than other places in Europe for violent outbursts and predictable outpourings of anti-social behaviour? Do you think things turn from 0-100 as rapidly, amongst seemingly normal folk (not hooligans) in mainland Europe as it does in England?

So are you saying that I as an English person and my children being English are predisposed to violent and thuggish behaviour whereas you from another country are not? Nobody I know would partake in this thuggery and I'm sure that's the case for most English people.

Honestly some nonsense being spoken in here which you wouldn't get away with if spoken about any other grouping.

 

[Anders80]

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HEre they are waiting, the brittish fans.

These kind of people, seriously. They belong in the absolute bottom of unintelligent scum, because they're nothing but stupid people. Complete morons trying to act tough because a football match hurt their feelings. They're like little frustrated babies. Put them in jail and ban them from ever attending public events ever again. And I hope they never raise kids because I would feel sorry for any children having morons like these as a parent.

 

[do.ob]

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I think it will take a lot of greasing to get another tournament to England anytime soon.

 

[Calidad]

So are you saying that I as an English person and my children being English are predisposed to violent and thuggish behaviour whereas you from another country are not? Nobody I know would partake in this thuggery and I'm sure that's the case for most English people.

Honestly some nonsense being spoken in here which you wouldn't get away with if spoken about any other grouping.

I don’t think it is an issue within English culture, per se. We do not see this nonsense at international rugby or cricket matches for example.

I do think it is an issue within certain sections of footballing culture over here though. We have seen it too often. And I find it less than reassuring when some are using Russia or Hungary as a barometer.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I get that impression too from having lived there, people in Spain are generally more laid back. They drink but it's a more relaxed vibe.

I don't know why but there's a real arrogance about English people, living in London they love being excessively loud on nights out and loud in general. And then you add in the openly nationalistic / xenophobic sub-culture and it's not a nice mix. I mean I'm sure it's not something that's unique to England but living here it's always magnified.

I was saying to my mates yesterday that English twats are worse than twats of other countries. By that I mean that the really ignorant, badly behaved ones are worse than their counterparts elsewhere - they're more violent, more hateful, more bigoted etc.

Genuinely think that the vast majority of English people are great, but we have quite a sizeable minority who are just dicks. No other country causes the mayhem we do when we go abroad do they?

There's probably loads of reasons for this. The weather is a big one - people in other countries are probably happier because they have more hours of sunshine and less rain. The country's traditions (long hours, grey cities, poor diet, mega-boozing) don't help either. And our levels of education are crap compared to a lot of other nations.

 

[Sky1981]

What he done. I get the Brexit thing. Problem is the racism has been there for ever, but nobody had done anything about it. Yes there have been campaigns, saying nicely not to do it. It will take more than that to stop it. There is too much about how great we are, that people show complete lack of respect for other nationalities and cultures. It is like we are still Victorians living in the modern age. We are not an Empire any more and it is like some cannot accept it and are fighting against it.

The England did nothing.

The police should make arrest, there's 2 people assaulting a human being nicky santoro style. There's people being kicked in the head. There should be a full investigation and send the culprits behind bar, made it a national news instead of the usual it's just bad apples.

The police have riots gear and deal with the hooligans in a stronger stance.

They have the belief that this is just another normal sunday after all and nothing will happen to them, no repercussions nothing

 

[Sky1981]

I was saying to my mates yesterday that English twats are worse than twats of other countries. By that I mean that the really ignorant, badly behaved ones are worse than their counterparts elsewhere - they're more violent, more hateful, more bigoted etc.

Genuinely think that the vast majority of English people are great, but we have quite a sizeable minority who are just dicks. No other country causes the mayhem we do when we go abroad do they?

There's probably loads of reasons for this. The weather is a big one - people in other countries are probably happier because they have more hours of sunshine and less rain. The country's traditions (long hours, grey cities, poor diet, mega-boozing) don't help either. And our levels of education are crap compared to a lot of other nations.

If they do this in some other country the culprit will be tasered, batoned, pepper sprayed, water cannoned and the unlucky one that got caught will be charged. Long before it become a recurring habit.

Instead they're being allowed to continue watching the match. Even when the seats are numbered, and it's very doable to make arrest.

 

[Tomuś]

These kind of people, seriously. They belong in the absolute bottom of unintelligent scum, because they're nothing but stupid people. Complete morons trying to act tough because a football match hurt their feelings. They're like little frustrated babies. Put them in jail and ban them from ever attending public events ever again. And I hope they never raise kids because I would feel sorry for any children having morons like these as a parent.

The state of them. Imagine them trying that against proper hools from Slavic/Balkan countries.

 

[Lay]

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Surprise surprise

 

[DoomSlayer]

The state of them. Imagine them trying that against proper hools from Slavic/Balkan countries.

What's a "proper hool" and have you ever actually seen one? One of the worst scumbags in modern-day society.

 

[Tomuś]

What's a "proper hool" and have you ever actually seen one? One of the worst scumbags in modern-day society.

Yeah, I see them every week during a club season. A proper hool here is fit as a butcher's dog, hardly drinks before the riots and a single punch of his would put those sissies to bed. Doesn't attack kids or women, too.

Don't like them but as far as cretins go, they can at least classify themselves as 'proper hools'.

 

[Giggsy13]

It's moments such as this one that I'm happy see England lose every time. The racial attacks on Sancho, Rashford and Saka are absolutely disgusting. The Russians are no saints either, but have to say that 2018 beatdown of English supporters at the world cup is something these vile human beings deserve again.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Yeah, I see them every week during a club season. A proper hool here is fit as a butcher's dog, hardly drinks before the riots and a single punch of his would put those sissies to bed. Doesn't attack kids or women, too.

Don't like them but as far as cretins go, they can at least classify themselves as 'proper hools'.

Yeah, basically fascists and nazi sympathisers, racist, homophobic and xenophobic to boot. The kind of people that used to be drafted in the military, whereas nowadays they create their own private organisations and prepare for god knows what type of warfare in their deluded minds.

 

[Tomuś]

Yeah, basically fascists and nazi sympathisers, racist, homophobic and xenophobic to boot. The kind of people that used to be drafted in the military, whereas nowadays they create their own private organisations and prepare for god knows what type of warfare in their deluded minds.

The ones here run anti nazi marches and are extremely patriotic which in their case, cancels out being a Nazi.

They just happen to be cretins who want to spend their life beating other hools.

Still, that does nothing to do with the fact that those sissies on the footage are probably everything you mentioned plus being sissies .

 

[DoomSlayer]

The ones here run anti nazi marches and are extremely patriotic which in their case, cancels out being a Nazi.

They just happen to be cretins who want to spend their life beating other hools.

Still, that does nothing to do with the fact that those sissies on the footage are probably everything you mentioned plus being sissies .

They probably make anti-LGBT marches as well, but you wouldn't mention that.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Alcohol, and our societal dependency on it. That’s what’s wrong with our fans.

Unfortunately you then have to start asking why alcohol has such a hold on us as a society and rabbit hole goes a long long way!

 

[FrankDrebin]

Yeah, basically fascists and nazi sympathisers, racist, homophobic and xenophobic to boot. The kind of people that used to be drafted in the military, whereas nowadays they create their own private organisations and prepare for god knows what type of warfare in their deluded minds.

Call of Duty online.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Where were the police? Seem to be entirely absent from the videos that have been circulating. Lack of planning, or concern that that their presence would be viewed negatively?

I think one thing that gets overlooked is that the majority of continental Europe has pretty robust police forces, and people wouldn’t get away with half of the stuff they do over here. I read in a news article today that ticketless fans have regularly been getting into Wembley during the Euros because the checks are so poor and/or the stewards are too fearful to do their jobs properly, and who can blame them.

Precisely that. To be honest I get why the FA made that decision, as stupid as it was. Everything is done to cater to those who shout the loudest. We’ve had a good year and a bit of people being outraged at police for having the audacity to police large scale events/protests etc.

Tik tok et al are to blame too. The videos of how to jib into wembley were doing the rounds before the game.

A large majority of young gangs were doing it yesterday including grown men. A lot of people got hurt from it.

Shocking that.

 

[Zaphod2319]

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[Tomuś]

They probably make anti-LGBT marches as well, but you wouldn't mention that.

I doubt they know what it means tbf

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Alcohol, and our societal dependency on it. That’s what’s wrong with our fans.

Unfortunately you then have to start asking why alcohol has such a hold on us as a society and rabbit hole goes a long long way!

Interesting take. It seems like a prerequisite for a lot of fans coming in to the game to drink heavily.

Maybe that part of the football culture needs some work on.

 

[horsechoker]

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My prospective striker whom I don't want because he's represented by Raiola

 

[Josh 76]

You will never get rid of racism in football, because it’s always going to be in society. They only way to make a stance against racism in football is, all the black players boycott playing for England. But that will never happen because the players will say “ they have won!”

it’s either this way or carry on as it is. No middle ground.

 

[Fortitude]

So are you saying that I as an English person and my children being English are predisposed to violent and thuggish behaviour whereas you from another country are not? Nobody I know would partake in this thuggery and I'm sure that's the case for most English people.

Honestly some nonsense being spoken in here which you wouldn't get away with if spoken about any other grouping.

I'm not from another country.

Please don't skirt the questions I asked.

 

[Abraxas]

A lot of people point to excessive alcohol consumption, but its not really that, like the irish are one of the biggest drinking nations and are regarded as one of the best countries in terms of travelling fans being positive and decently behaved, while these english 'hooligan' fans are obviously not a representation of all english fans, there is a theme across the board regarding englands interpretation of england as a country and how they are percieved by other countries, which will often come up in various 'why dont people like the english or want england to lose' type threads. These hooligans are obviously at the extreme end of things, and behave awfully, but it is part of a general cultural confirmation bias of england as a country in relation to the rest of the world and their entitlement to be the best. It is a very interesting subject.....i had lived in london for many years and have no problems with any english people in general, you take everyone as they come, so please im not trying to be anti-english or anything like that.

Oh of course, it is by no means the only factor and I should not have characterised it as such. If it was easy to produce a shift in behaviour of a large number of people (albeit a minority) every country would be doing it. Not just in relation to football but in relation to all things, there are elements of people that are lagging behind in their education, understanding of what is acceptable, and pretty much how to behave in many scenarios.

It's not that easy to do, there is always a large element of personal responsibility. Laws and such only civilise, they do not produce fundamental change at a deep level. Even education has to be something people want to engage with and assimilate learnings into their life. It always comes back to personal, psychological and spiritual development in my opinion and to engage with those things is very individualistic. Now, I don't think this means there is nothing to be done or that we should be defeatist, we still have to look at how we can encourage that change but it's a complex problem indeed.

My point with alcohol in Britain is just an observation around how culturally significant it is. Meeting colleagues after work - drinks. Going to the football - drinks. Growing up as a youngster, what could be cooler than drinks. Friday evenings - drinks. It is associated with football and we do know within certain elements it increases a likelihood of violent behaviour. I think it's a phenomenon that is worth understanding, why is alcohol so important to us and maybe by extension there would be some reduction in hooliganism.

 

[Jev]

The amount of English posters trying to belittle it or pointing to random examples of scummy fan behaviour in other countries just underline the deep-rooted cultural issues.

An English poster even suggested children getting spat on is part of the away going experience. The same poster thought Denmark were out of order to celebrate their fourth goal against Wales. I mean, seriously.

The simple fact is we've seen absolutely despicable behaviour from way too many English fans this tournament, on a scale we don't regularly see in other countries, especially in situations where their team was winning and you would have expected celebrations. England have obvious cultural issues, and this tournament has shown why a major international tournament shouldn't be hosted by England. The safety of away fans simple can't be insured with the amount of brainless thugs.

As for alcohol being the source, we're champions at that in Denmark and don't have these issues.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You will never get rid of racism in football, because it’s always going to be in society. They only way to make a stance against racism in football is, all the black players boycott playing for England. But that will never happen because the players will say “ they have won!”

it’s either this way or carry on as it is. No middle ground.

It can't be eradicated because at the least you will get trolls that will always do it simply for the thrill of causing the storm. That said it can still be minimised and we should try to find ways to minimise it as much as possible.

Regarding the England fans, it's like hooliganism has been minimised at club level and the remaining small pockets of it from around the country come together with the England NT. We can't get away from the fact that there's an ugly nationalism among a small but significant group of NT followers. Then there's the yob and drug culture in this country. I have to admit that when I saw that guy doing coke I thought it was quite funny and was a bit surprised by how shocked some people seemed to be. I started reflecting on just how normalised cocaine has become in our society. When I was a kid such a drug was seen as a big taboo but now its not something that people really feel the need to keep quiet. I think there's plenty of disastrous and failed UK drug policies but there's also a cultural attitude towards drug and alcohol excess that is a long way from being healthy. I'm not sure how we can address these things or even if there's political will to do so.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The amount of English posters trying to belittle it or pointing to random examples of scummy fan behaviour in other countries just underline the deep-rooted cultural issues.

An English poster even suggested children getting spat on is part of the away going experience. The same poster thought Denmark were out of order to celebrate their fourth goal against Wales. I mean, seriously.

The simple fact is we've seen absolutely despicable behaviour from way too many English fans this tournament, on a scale we don't regularly see in other countries, especially in situations we're their team was winning and you would have expected celebrations. England have obvious cultural issues, and this tournament has shown why a major international tournament shouldn't be hosted by England. The safety of away fans simple can't be insured with the amount of brainless thugs.

As for alcohol being the source, we're champions at that in Denmark and don't have these issues.

Luckily you’re not in charge of making those decisions. If Uefa and FIFA can give tournaments to Russia, Poland, Ukraine and Qatar than I think England will be safe to be fair. Also regarding cultural issues? Do Denmark not have any then?

 

[UDontMessWith24]

If Eastern European national teams were worth anything you’d see some absolutely vile hooligans coming to the forefront.

 

[VorZakone]

If Eastern European national teams were worth anything you’d see some absolutely vile hooligans coming to the forefront.

Look no further than Russian MMA-esque hooligans in 2016.

 

[Wolf1992]

There are countries with worse.

I'm not english, but to think England is the worst, seems stupid....

I've seen worse stuff in Croatia,Turkey,Brazil, Argentina,Colombia,Serbia, and such.

Maybe i would say that England might be the worst of all developed countries, even though dutchs ultras are pretty close...but that's it.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Here’s me reminiscing about the beautiful welcome United fans got in Rome those years ago.

 

[mariachi-19]

If Eastern European national teams were worth anything you’d see some absolutely vile hooligans coming to the forefront.

So that makes it ok?

FML, how about take responsibility for this shit show.

As an Australian, our drinking culture is probably worse than the English but I’ve never seen anything like in the video at a
national sporting event.

it seems like after the United v Liverpool match and now this, the FA need to pull their finger out and actually do a decent job policing matches before somebody gets killed.

 

[Oranges038]

Majority are probably well behaved, like everything else you have a few that have a bit of a laugh and push the boundaries. Then you have the small minority of dickheads that get all the attention for negative reasons.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

The amount of English posters trying to belittle it or pointing to random examples of scummy fan behaviour in other countries just underline the deep-rooted cultural issues.

An English poster even suggested children getting spat on is part of the away going experience. The same poster thought Denmark were out of order to celebrate their fourth goal against Wales. I mean, seriously.

The simple fact is we've seen absolutely despicable behaviour from way too many English fans this tournament, on a scale we don't regularly see in other countries, especially in situations we're their team was winning and you would have expected celebrations. England have obvious cultural issues, and this tournament has shown why a major international tournament shouldn't be hosted by England. The safety of away fans simple can't be insured with the amount of brainless thugs.

As for alcohol being the source, we're champions at that in Denmark and don't have these issues.

Sometimes I think people look at England as some sort of behavioural measuring device, and if they fall below expectations then it's a free for all to blow it out of all proportion. England has some rough fans, and media who love to report every single detail, but we all knew that.

Russia was a blast, and Qatar will be very different for sure, so I hope it lives up to your morals.