The mighty Brits? Go and have a lie down ffs
England fans, what is wrong with England fans?
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....g-for-shared-experience-reveals-its-ugly-side
The above is a good read which goes a way to explaining the absolute bedlam of Sunday night.
“In his book This Sporting Life the academic Robert Colls traces the popular history of English sport, from the 18th-century bull-runners of Stamford in Lincolnshire to the fox-hunters of Victorian England. English sport, he argues, is inherently tied to personal liberty: the custom and ritual of public transgression, of articulating who you are in a country and society that affords you precious few opportunities to do so. “Sport,” writes Colls, “confirmed that in England, you could do as you pleased.””
The above is a good read which goes a way to explaining the absolute bedlam of Sunday night.
“In his book This Sporting Life the academic Robert Colls traces the popular history of English sport, from the 18th-century bull-runners of Stamford in Lincolnshire to the fox-hunters of Victorian England. English sport, he argues, is inherently tied to personal liberty: the custom and ritual of public transgression, of articulating who you are in a country and society that affords you precious few opportunities to do so. “Sport,” writes Colls, “confirmed that in England, you could do as you pleased.””
"And hence thee smashed a pint glass on thee's head"
And what?
Haha. Don’t waste your breath. I had this inkling feeling he’s been whining about England a lot. Go and look at his posts this last month. England live rent free in his fecking head.
He’s also from a nation with significant football hooligan problems so really he should feel right at home amongst us mighty brits.
50 pages on england fans thread. Blame the foreigners. How typical
Should of trampled them all with horses.
That is well done
I think that the UK (and maybe football as a sport) has stopped trying to eradicate the unsavoury elements of the fan bases and accepted it as part of the game, to be managed instead of removed.
Every time England fans do something there’s all this shock and outrage for about a week, then everyone forgets about it and moves on. There’s no punishment for the people who do it.
It’s interesting to note that no other major international final has faced the problems that took place on Sunday. Hooliganism isn’t exclusively an English problem but it feels more consistently present with our fans.
Every time England fans do something there’s all this shock and outrage for about a week, then everyone forgets about it and moves on. There’s no punishment for the people who do it.
It’s interesting to note that no other major international final has faced the problems that took place on Sunday. Hooliganism isn’t exclusively an English problem but it feels more consistently present with our fans.
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Again not excusing the England fans that partook in the racist abuse but you only had to look at a lot of the tweets to know that they were not English in origin. I hope a full break down of the origins of the tweets are published. Its believed that mostly they come from India and The Middle East and if you follow this stuff it chimes with a lot of the accounts you see posting these things.
We need to get our house in order but the exceptionalism of many posters on here in the past week or so has been highly instructive.
This post basically reads as "I refuse to believe this because I'd rather just continue blindly hating the English".
As opposed to forget everything we see live on tv and blame it on the indian and the middle east.
But we're talking about the online abuse in that post? Of course it's not all from people in this country, all you have to do is read the abuse and look at the accounts and always just blatantly obvious they're from abroad.
Must suck supporting Utd and having to cheer on so many English people.
Must suck supporting Utd and having to cheer on so many English people.
It's not a conclusion. There's a chart going round that supposedly shows the countries of origin of the abuse but I've not seen it from any official sources. I'm sceptical of it on reflection actually because it seems too weighted to those countries. What I do know though is when these things flare and from the tweets I've seen up a lot of the tweets are abviously not English in origin, you commonly see them from Arabic handles and named accounts.
The 70% figure refers to racist abuse from the last two years so doesn't cover the Euros, given what happened the abuse could be more English based which is why I'd like to see some official figures on it.
Do you struggle to read?
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Probably more than 70% of all tweets and comments about football and football players come from abroad anyway.
My apologies then,
I was wrong, England fans are the best in the world. Anything abusive must have come from abroad.
Come on, no one is saying that. There is a disturbing element at the heart of our national support and a serious issue with drink and drug excess and yobbish behaviour. These people shame our nation on a too regular basis.
It's a fact that the majority of racist abuse aimed at our players on Twitter over the past two years came from abroad, however. This was found through research from the leading anti-racism body in English football 'Kick it Out'.
The issue is when people use examples of the worst of the English as a vehicle for bigotry against English people as a whole which has been an undercurrent on this site recently, at least in my view. It becomes exceptionalist when these people ignore the same issues in their own cultures or identity groups. It's quite incredible to see Italian people taking the high horse on these matters, for example. This happens sometimes through sheer ignorance and sometimes more perniciously through wilful ignorance.
Wow, how shameless can they be?
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-who-stormed-euros-final-defends-his-actions
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-who-stormed-euros-final-defends-his-actions
That's the abuse I'm getting in this page alone. I might have mixed up using the word's British Empire, Brits, British, England, England football fans, etc to describe England Nationality and I honestly got that mixed up.
I'm not saying all British people are assholes, or racist, or a drunken and disorderly hooligan. Some of them are nice, some of them have their own unique Britain arrogance, some of them have their own flair, some of them are utter cnut, and the football fans the later. I've been critizing the footballing part of England, and rightly so for 100% their own doing during the Euro 2020. And this is the thread (which was not made by me) named "England fans, what is wrong with England fans" so off course I'll be talking about England fans. If this is the thread about "2 Spurs fans getting stabbed" I would to call the perp who does this the same vitriol.
Whenever people criticize your hooliganism in football you attributed it to xenophobic, and the dislike for England in general. . Not everyone hates you, but with all the snidely replies I'm getting I'm started to think it's personal. Maybe you just don't like johny foreigners to poke around on your drunken brawling countrymen. If so then so be it, i'm out of this thread.
Come on man, you're a better poster than that. You're looking into posts things that you want to see, namely a xenophobic attack from the English.
Nobody is denying that there is a problem with the English football support. Nobody is denying that there are big problems in English society. Nobody is denying that there is racism in England.
What I think a few people have taken umbrage at is the general atmosphere of this board over the past few weeks, which has often crossed the line from just 'banter' into thinly veiled attacks on pretty much every element of English culture and society and its people. I say this as someone who has a general disdain for this country after what's happened in the last 5-10 years and who could generally take or leave the English national team.
I'm not trying to pick on this particular poster but I've seen for instance a comment on how English people are like this for the same reason they made such a big empire, the insinuation being of course that they're just generally violent. So what happened to the Germans, French, Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Scandis, Japanese etc etc? Seems a very strange link to make.
When people are pointing out other events, it is often not to deflect from the problems in this country (though of course sometimes they are) but to point out that things which are being mentioned as uniquely British or English are often not.
There is a difference between saying 'elements of the England support are scum, the racism is disgusting, I'm fed up of the politics here and my heart genuinely sunk when those 3 players missed', all of which I'd agree with and have said myself in the last week and 'England has unique problems with racism for instance'.
Which I would very strongly disagree with.
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I disagree. Criticism is fine of course and there's a lot to criticise. It clearly goes further on here with some posters, at least in my eyes. Do you want to talk about how we could fix these issues, take a rational view on how these issues are affecting football across Europe and the globe or do you just want to taunt England fans with examples of this type of behaviour to make them feel bad?
People are sensitive about national issues. It's a strong part of probably most people's identity.
When it happened to United players last season, most if not all of the accounts were in Indonesia.
Is he? He's a fairly bitter poster, a borderline troll who's main goal it to taunt on here - going back years. When you come back with something balanced, constructive and considered he come back with a post that essentially says "agree to disagree" and moves on to the next target.
I'd argue with anyone that there are xenophobic attitudes towards English people from certain quarters on this forum.
Great post and sums up my feelings.
agreed. At the same time its no excuse because the fact is there were people in England doing it which means we are abusing our own players which is a joke. That said, I imagine a few will go silent in light of the recent data pointing to where most the abuse comes from.
Thats interesting and also silly. So many haters worldwide
These arguments make sense and explain why football sees more of these types of incidents than say rugby union, cricket or athletics.
But there are other working class sports. Rugby league and darts are heavily working class and both involve just as much supporter drinking as football does. Maybe I am mistaken, but I have never associated either sport with high levels of hooliganism or violence. Even in relative terms to the popularity of the sports.
What makes football so different?
My daughter is turning 5 and I wanted to start taking her to Luton games but we have too many Tommy Robinson's in the crowd so we're probably never going.
Shame as it would have been really fun for us.
Shame as it would have been really fun for us.
Does anyone seriously think online trolling is the biggest problem associated with England football fans? Are we blaming Indian twitter accounts for defacing Rashford’s mural? Or booing national anthems?
I thought everyone knew online trolling was just stupid kids, from all over the world. It’s an issue that goes on throughout the season anyway. Nothing unique to international games/tournaments. It’s not even unique to football.
Besides, the terrible behaviour/reputation of England fans predates the whole internet, never mind social media.
I thought everyone knew online trolling was just stupid kids, from all over the world. It’s an issue that goes on throughout the season anyway. Nothing unique to international games/tournaments. It’s not even unique to football.
Besides, the terrible behaviour/reputation of England fans predates the whole internet, never mind social media.
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Who said that?
One fan defaced the mural which is of course abhorrent but then hundreds more have been there to post messages of the support for him. Why would you chose to see the individual as the represenation of England fans rather than the many many more people that were disgusted by it and have supported him?
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Again, that's not to say that there isn't a nasty hardcore of ugly English nationalists at the heart of our match going support or that we don't have big problems here.
Plenty of people do think that all the racist tweets come from this country as well.
@diarm Rugby League isn't that popular so with the much smaller attendances you're less likely to get trouble. When England hosted the RL World Cup a few years back hardly anyone knew it was happening. Some of the games were played at Rochdale's stadium to give you an idea of the interest. The most simple answer is that the hooligans that follow England don't follow Rugby League teams. A lot of them are London based, Millwall, West Ham etc so they go to a lot of England football games as they live in London. Rugby League is only really played in the North West and Yorkshire. Personally I've only been to Rochdale Hornets in RL's second tier and the attendances are so small that people tend to know each other personally. It's just a totally different vibe and far less tribal.
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All my socials were focused on the online abuse. that seems the most prevalent issue because that's what is easier to find lots of evidence of along with the stadium ruckus.
Why this constant desire to blame others instead of just admitting their own problems and working to stop it?
Of course there is going to be some abuse from trolls around the world but that should never be used as any type of excuse or to deflect blame from your 50 year old teachers, estate agents or those Portsmouth youth players Whatsapp messages I saw today.
Instead of saying well most of the abuse happens elsewhere i just feel the better response from Southgate and others would be to totally condemn the abuse and double down on efforts to stop it.
Tyrone Ming's statement was fantastic and the people who have worked so hard to show their support for Rashford through his mural plus the mural now of the three players in Manchester show that racism can never win if people come together to fight it.
Of course there is going to be some abuse from trolls around the world but that should never be used as any type of excuse or to deflect blame from your 50 year old teachers, estate agents or those Portsmouth youth players Whatsapp messages I saw today.
Instead of saying well most of the abuse happens elsewhere i just feel the better response from Southgate and others would be to totally condemn the abuse and double down on efforts to stop it.
Tyrone Ming's statement was fantastic and the people who have worked so hard to show their support for Rashford through his mural plus the mural now of the three players in Manchester show that racism can never win if people come together to fight it.
This whole thread is an attack on English society and culture as well as the football support. I am not even staunchly English and I hate the national anthem but I can see the woods from the trees. The chart suggested that a smaller % of the abuse online is coming from the UK but as you said, people aren't using their common sense. That said our fans were caught red handed on camera acting like yobbos and this is now been attributed to the entire England fanbase so there is definitely an air of Anglophobia swimming about.
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But how do we stop it when the majority is overseas? this raises an issue. We can try to go for those over in UK but what of the majority? In other countries do they care enough to make arrests or send the bobbies around? It will just continue
That's a fair point. Makes sense that smaller crowds made up of more familiar people will see less hassle.