criticalanalysis
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2015
- Messages
- 6,212
Holy crap I totally forgot about that account. Where has the years gone ffsWas fantastic on Twitter, all about the “play a making”
Holy crap I totally forgot about that account. Where has the years gone ffsWas fantastic on Twitter, all about the “play a making”
i think their national team played somewhat similar to dortmund. him and honda were the AMs, the whole team played quick passes with lots of movement. not what he got at united both in 2012 or 13.Sad how sharply he declined. He was a lot of fun to watch on his day. Not just a "system player" either, as he was generally good (and often better) for the national team before he joined us.
Mad winger?There used to be a fanboy of him here I forgot the posters nickname but he had Kagawa body pillow in his bedroom.
Ohhhhhhh yes.Mad winger?
100% this.Obviously there are other factors involved, but he is another one to file under “Klopp effect” and one of the big reasons why liverpool fans shouldn’t get ahead of themselves.
There will be more players than they think that will drop off when he leaves, and for all their talk of good recruitment and planning, we didn’t see any sign of it until their manager was making these players play above themselves.
He gets players to perform to another level and there are so very few examples of players that get on better without him.
Wasn't Klopp one of four or five managers we spoke to (Guardiola another) when Fergie was retiring? They all had other plans and we ended up with Moyes.Yeah if he had stayed on for another season Rooney most definitely would've been moved on. And we apparently did speak to Klopp but he wasn't interested in leaving Dortmund. We also spoke to him again in 2014.
His career took an absurd turn after leaving AC Milan 4 years ago. He's played for 6 different clubs since then! Today he plays fotball in Azerbaijan, while simultaneously managing the Cambodian international team. And he only just turned 35Always thought Honda was the better player but his career never really went where it should have either.
Pep, Carlo, Klopp, Mourinho and van Gaal. Pep was definitely first choice iirc he was offered the job before Fergie had even informed the Glazers he was retiring then I believe Carlo was offered it but he had already accepted the Madrid job. Klopp made it clear he wasn't interested in leaving Dortmund yet, the likes of Sir Bobby had concerns over Mourinho and van Gaal was leading Netherlands to the World Cup so it basically came down to Moyes. An experienced PL manager, good friends with Fergie and a manager the Glazers hoped would turn into the next SAF.Wasn't Klopp one of four or five managers we spoke to (Guardiola another) when Fergie was retiring? They all had other plans and we ended up with Moyes.
Then when we spoke to him after Moyes it was Ed's "Disneyland" pitch.
What an absolutely tragic set of events this is. Ending up with our 6th choicePep, Carlo, Klopp, Mourinho and van Gaal. Pep was definitely first choice iirc he was offered the job before Fergie had even informed the Glazers he was retiring then I believe Carlo was offered it but he had already accepted the Madrid job. Klopp made it clear he wasn't interested in leaving Dortmund yet, the likes of Sir Bobby had concerns over Mourinho and van Gaal was leading Netherlands to the World Cup so it basically came down to Moyes. An experienced PL manager, good friends with Fergie and a manager the Glazers hoped would turn into the next SAF.
I agree. I've always said the 13/14 squad wasn't as bad as some make it out to be it just needed investment which we failed at because of Woodward and Moyes' dithering over signings. For example, Fergie worked on the Thiago signing and basically had it lined up for the next manager, Moyes wasn't a fan and preferred Fabregas which was an unrealistic target but we still chased him for ages before realising we weren't going to get him. That summer was a fecking mess. We should've finished top four still but obviously Moyes was incompetent.What an absolutely tragic set of events this is. Ending up with our 6th choice
I sometimes wonder what 'could have been' if a competent manager took over after Fergie. I reckon we'd have signed a better midfielder than Fellaini(who to be fair wasn't that bad for us). I also reckon Shinji would have gotten more playtime, though I'm not so sure if he would have turned out to be a top player. But at least we would have gotten top 4 and realised that we need a defender and probably a new striker(because of RVP's injury problems) ASAP.
Hindsight and all that, but Moyes, followed by Van Gaal(who truly fecked up the rebuild), may really have been the two worst possible decisions the club could have done.
I agree. It was the champions, for feck's sake!I've always said the 13/14 squad wasn't as bad as some make it out to be
I remain convinced that Fergie had all but lined up deals for Thiago, Herrera and Shaw, but Moyes spent the summer chasing Fabregas, Fellaini and Baines.What an absolutely tragic set of events this is. Ending up with our 6th choice
I sometimes wonder what 'could have been' if a competent manager took over after Fergie. I reckon we'd have signed a better midfielder than Fellaini(who to be fair wasn't that bad for us). I also reckon Shinji would have gotten more playtime, though I'm not so sure if he would have turned out to be a top player. But at least we would have gotten top 4 and realised that we need a defender and probably a new striker(because of RVP's injury problems) ASAP.
Hindsight and all that, but Moyes, followed by Van Gaal(who truly fecked up the rebuild), may really have been the two worst possible decisions the club could have done.
My memory is hazy but I’m sure Moyes admitted he had no idea what type of player Shinji is and said “he plays on the left for Japan so he can do that here too”. Not taking into account that Japan play a completely different style to United and played a no striker formation for a bitI agree. I've always said the 13/14 squad wasn't as bad as some make it out to be it just needed investment which we failed at because of Woodward and Moyes' dithering over signings. For example, Fergie worked on the Thiago signing and basically had it lined up for the next manager, Moyes wasn't a fan and preferred Fabregas which was an unrealistic target but we still chased him for ages before realising we weren't going to get him. That summer was a fecking mess. We should've finished top four still but obviously Moyes was incompetent.
Yeah, Honda looked the business at one point.Always thought Honda was the better player but his career never really went where it should have either.
Endo was class! The Japanese Pirlo. Damn shame he never went to Europe.Yeah, Honda looked the business at one point.
Off topic, but how good was Endo in his prime? He looked bloody impressive at times for Japan.
ETA Still plays, apparently! Past 40 these days.
Yeah, true I guess.He was never a top player. We were sold a pup. A less good version of Mkhitaryan.
I always felt Kagawas issue was we signed rvp and saf was always going to play Rooney and Robin. Kagawa was never a wide player as Moyes found out.I think SAF as always was trying to keep up with the European clubs of having a creative 10 in the team, I remember before that we never played with one. Either Rooney would drop deep and play as a false 9 or when Giggs played in midfield he's play a little higher but I don't remember us playing him in front of two CMs.
I'm guessing SAF realized that a 4231 is the way forward and bought a young #10 to be that player, I'm also certain Rooney would've been moved on and SAF had his eyes on Lewa.
Would have been very interesting to see him play in Europe, no doubt.Damn shame he never went to Europe.
Yep, that is probably why. Before 2010, very few Japanese went to Europe. After Honda, Kagawa and Nagatomo there was a boom of Japanese players trying their luck in Europe which still is ongoing so I guess it's permanent now.He's a fair bit older than the likes of Honda, though - perhaps he was just too old at the point when he really started to make people pay attention?
Agree it's too bad we never got to see Endo in Europe. I'd argue that while Honda + Nagatomo + Kagawa were the start of this current boom of Japanese players trying to make it in European leagues, the OG that blew that door down was Nakamura. I don't have any affinity for Celtic, but I have a long sleeve Celtic jersey because of him.Yep, that is probably why. Before 2010, very few Japanese went to Europe. After Honda, Kagawa and Nagatomo there was a boom of Japanese players trying their luck in Europe which still is ongoing so I guess it's permanent now.
Ding ding. Collect your Kenwood Juicer at the door.He was never a top player. We were sold a pup. A less good version of Mkhitaryan.
I think Fergie rated Endo as wellYeah, Honda looked the business at one point.
Off topic, but how good was Endo in his prime? He looked bloody impressive at times for Japan.
ETA Still plays, apparently! Past 40 these days.
Surely it was Nakata? Won the scudetto with Roma and had a good career in Italy.Agree it's too bad we never got to see Endo in Europe. I'd argue that while Honda + Nagatomo + Kagawa were the start of this current boom of Japanese players trying to make it in European leagues, the OG that blew that door down was Nakamura. I don't have any affinity for Celtic, but I have a long sleeve Celtic jersey because of him.
Nakata was amazing and you're right, I probably erred in calling Nakamura the OG when Nakata came before him. I'd argue that Nakamura did more opening of doors because of when he played and the exposure he got (those were good years for Celtic and I remember games in the CL against Barca, etc.). Both have a legitimate claim to the title of best Japanese footballer yet.Surely it was Nakata? Won the scudetto with Roma and had a good career in Italy.
Nakamura is a Celtic legend who definitely put Japanese players on the map(as did Nakata before him), but I wouldn't credit him with the Japanese player boom, as he was doing great stuff in Scotland(and in the CL) for many years without it having any profound effect.Agree it's too bad we never got to see Endo in Europe. I'd argue that while Honda + Nagatomo + Kagawa were the start of this current boom of Japanese players trying to make it in European leagues, the OG that blew that door down was Nakamura. I don't have any affinity for Celtic, but I have a long sleeve Celtic jersey because of him.
Not being funny but I watched Japan vs Syria (2017) while I was in Japan on holiday. They sucked big time. They drew 1-1 but we’re losing to a Country controlled by terrorists. I love Japan but they haven’t come close to producing another Nakamura.It's easy to say the Klopp effect, but he actually played well for Japan as well, without Klopp, I think he certainly benefitted from being in that Dortmund team at the time that he was, however it's also true that he didn't benefit from the fact we mostly played him as a United winger, when he was never a winger to begin with. Shame his career basically went into a soft decline after he left us as I was always rooting for him to do well, one of those players that wanted to play for United because it was United, not for money or anything like that.