wouldnt that mean you have a street of empty houses, or they would be all rental? There are a handful of new builds along it aswell
Old Trafford revamp/could be torn down and rebuilt according to Glazer plans
- Thread starter GE
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Financing and borrowing from banks are not synonymous...
This might be of interest;
Originally, way back, the railway land belong to British Rail (when it was still in Government ownership) and BR were not allowed to sell off land except to other Government agencies, but they would allow a leasing system; however at the time the fallibility and the true cost of building an extension to the South stand on land actually owned by someone else, was considered prohibitive by the then owners/directors of the club.
Other development plans for the other three sides of the ground were then considered, and eventually actioned.
I was told by people I knew who worked for the club (at the time) it seems the whole project was reconsidered when government restrictions changed, but it seems other issues arose as H&S, Planning and Building Regs had changed and the line itself became mainly a goods line; later it was security issues that attracted attention e.g. in theory, some determined terrorist could run a massive bomb right into the heart of the stadium on the train, etc. And of course all the time the cost was increasing just to build it, never mind kit it out.
My 'inside man' had left the club by then, so I don't know exactly what has taken place since the late 80's The decision to build the 'Munich tunnel' was I think taken around that time, but cant not be sure.
When the club started buying property and land on the other side of the railway I don't know, either, again not sure when or for what purpose. You have to assume that the original plan to just extend the South Stand to three tiers was now 'old hat' and something new was envisage, might still be on the cards...who knows this could be Joel's big statement when he meets the fans?
There is also problems of access and egress on the other side of the ground North/Stretford End, i.e. bridge over the canal, which has caused concern more than once for H&S reasons with pedestrians, mingling with vehicles, especially at the end of the game. The Police are not happy about these arrangements, because as more stringent security measures have been introduced to check vehicles entering car parks, the build up of traffic back on to the main road becomes horrendous and in some case downright dangerous.
Perhaps the only feasible thing would be to 'flip the grounds footprint' over (as Spurs seem to have done) and swap the car parks over; however there would still be issues then with canal and buying up land further down the road, whatever happens a new stadium on the OT site looks very unlikely, especially as 75000 fans still turn up, with leaky roofs, no screens, dilapidated concourse, and seats that soon only kids can sit in, every home game.
The stadium improvements, like many other club management issues have been 'kicked down the road' for years, even before the Glazers arrived. I don't see it changing much to be honest whether Joel and Co stay or go!
Looks like we are staying at the 'Theatre of Dreams' until it falls down around our ears!
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Revamp done
The rail seating also my seat for the upcoming season!
How many standing spaces?
The rail seating also my seat for the upcoming season!
I’d be amazed if a high-level feasibility study hasn't already been carried out on the options for extending over the railway line, and I suspect the conclusion would be that it wouldn't warrant the cost.
I've seen public sector studies carried out down here for projects involving modifications to the railway infrastructure and the costs of an acceptably safe civil engineering solution are so high they need a very prohibitive payback. That's before you take into account Network Rail's propensity to fleece their clients to make some money out of the deal, and persuading other property owners to sell up.
If you do the maths, I'd like to bet the answer would be, "build a whole new stadium somewhere else". Most of the companies I've worked with in the past have drawn that conclusion when they're faced with the cost of putting new facilities in an old building that was never designed for it.
As for the area around Old Trafford, that's only going to improve if local or central government finance it in some kind of joint venture. There will also be people who think it's all to appeal to the prawn sandwich brigade looking for a more upmarket "match day experience". That was very striking when I was at the QPR match, which is close to Westfield - Shepherds Bush looks very different nowadays, and has prices to match!
I've seen public sector studies carried out down here for projects involving modifications to the railway infrastructure and the costs of an acceptably safe civil engineering solution are so high they need a very prohibitive payback. That's before you take into account Network Rail's propensity to fleece their clients to make some money out of the deal, and persuading other property owners to sell up.
If you do the maths, I'd like to bet the answer would be, "build a whole new stadium somewhere else". Most of the companies I've worked with in the past have drawn that conclusion when they're faced with the cost of putting new facilities in an old building that was never designed for it.
As for the area around Old Trafford, that's only going to improve if local or central government finance it in some kind of joint venture. There will also be people who think it's all to appeal to the prawn sandwich brigade looking for a more upmarket "match day experience". That was very striking when I was at the QPR match, which is close to Westfield - Shepherds Bush looks very different nowadays, and has prices to match!
This video shows work being done to the roof, which I'm guessing is the one that was leaking..
Rail seating looks cool. Legroom at OT is awful when sitting down anyway. Rail seating across most of the ground would remedy that without reducing capacity. I hope the railed areas expand in the very near future.
Was watching a video the other day about stadium upgrades that said more and more sports teams are discovering that upgrading existing facilities is cheaper than building a new stadium.
Boca are expanding their stadium by bridging over a road so while not the same thing as a rail line it's definitely possible. And I have no doubt the club has explored it in the past. Now that the Super League golden goose they were relying on has died there might be some plans for major renovations being moved forward.
No chance the stadium gets expanded over the railway line, the whole Trafford park area has just been redone and would likely need significant changes again if they were to attempt to put a stadium over the top of it. It's also the route pretty much all trains from Liverpool to Manchester run so wouldn't be feasible to shut down for a long while whilst the works were being carried out.
I've seen plenty of stadiums that cantilever out from a smaller footprint. I doubt there would be a need these days to knock any of the houses on the other side of the tracks down to expand.
Having said that I'm not convinced OT even needs expanded as much as it needs renovated and updated.
It has. It doesn’t. (My ex father in law was involved).
It will be interesting to see what happens post Woodward. If we don’t get in a match-day focused guy, we’re in for another 10-20 years of increased revenue growth to the detriment of match day experience.
Our club is at a crossroads.
Just choose to make more money from online content. The Athletic makes money. Charge global fans 1p to read a 30 minute interview with Marcus. Micro transactions work. Start a proper podcast with player insight. Give Rashford his own weekly podcast to talk about social issues with community leaders that matter. Let fans hear about Antonio Valencia’s ongoing efforts in his homeland. The depth of our social global penetration is almost unrivalled.
The media lies. Let our manager and playing staff speak openly and honestly about things that matter to them. At length. The boring-but-brilliant players like Maguire will still plug Taco Bell. That’s awesome. They can get their money. But other won’t. Shit, Ravel on a 3 part, 6 hour podcast to talk about how not to do it.
We as a club, underestimate The value of the narratives that exist in our squad. Monetise it for social good. It’s not Fcuking hard.
Why is it all so limp dicked and vanilla? Long form content makes money. The Jury is out. Bring that cash into the club. Spend that money on the fan experience. Raise ticket prices for 10% of seats to an astronomical value. Sit tourists up in the gods and price the noisy seats at a value the local fans can afford.
This is not hard. It’s harder to Fcuk up than succeed at.
Weren't the seats near the bottom supposed to not be red anymore to help our players pick out their teammates more easily?
No that reference was to the tarp coverings that were in place during the pandemic. Once fans are back in the ground it's no longer an issue.
It's looking feckin good in fairness. Much needed.
Ah, good point!
i get what you're saying but getting some new seats in, some seat railings and a cover me spray tan in red doesn't deal with the major issues. It's a makeover that will get washed away when it rains rather than a kardasian butt lift or a complete divorce that's needed.
Yeah I know what you mean, I hope they do a full refurb but the most important thing is that the stadium doesn’t look awful and run down.
At least it’s looking sharp-ish for the new season.
Personally I’m not fussed on cheese rooms and shopping malls. To me there is nothing more authentic feeling than Old Trafford on match day.
Yes I agree. Though a modest expansion (cantilevering as you suggest) would probably be necessary to keep the existing capacity if more leg (and side) room is to be available for big boned fans like me
Rail standing is absolutely essential though, and to be fair to them the evil Glazers seem to have always been receptive to the idea.
Good point. If it wasn't in the planning long term, we won't see it happen for however long they planned ahead (which could be quite short given it's the Glazers and their cash cow)
Going back to around 2010 period United were quoted around £500m + to re build the stand with the railway line included. That was by Network Rail.
Even today, with improvements in engineering, it is still far too expensive and not cost affective.
The fault lies with the people who built it right next to the railway line sadly.
A better internet signal would go down grand with my prawn sandwiches.
Utd really need to sort out the OT wifi, it's useless for any purpose. If we had good wifi, we could have an 'MUFC Match Day' app to show replays/VAR etc. for fans in the stadium so we can see what's going on when decisions are being reviewed etc. rather than having a big stupid screen.
Yeah that’s a top idea actually. Would like that a lot.
Some of the things available in the US for NFL stadiums with good wifi is really interesting too. A lot of potential just by having good wifi in a starfish.
Don't think we need any more encouragement for people to be glued to their phones, pet hate of mine at the game
Not allowed sadly, at least for the rare 3pm Saturday games anyhow. But good idea for other times perhaps
"co-owner Joel Glazer: "Old Trafford is at the heart of Manchester United""
Maybe I'm being picky, but is it not an issue that this even has to be said?
And now he's said it, what does the recent neglect of OT show for how he feels about the "heart" of Manchester United?
Feck upgrading the away dressing room. Downgrade them and make teams miserable. Something cosy like this...
With pristine toilet facilities...
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Not allowed to show VAR replays till a decision is done anyway.
Let's hear some good ideas for away dressing room upgades.
I'll start:
No floor tiles. Just dirt.
Brunos matchday music playing, at all times
Huge neon photos of Sir Alex everywhere
No whiteboard, just a grey wall and a small piece of chalk
Washing services always come in at halftime
The ‘minor’ refurbs actually concern me as it suggests a major refurb is as far away as ever.
Obviously with the time pandemic it’s not a good time to spend a £1bn but Old Trafford has such issues. Last time I went to a game I had to ask someone to switch seats so I could be on the end of the row due to a lack of leg room. It’s really out of date.
Personally, I’d like to see a reconfiguration rather than a full rebuild. Rip the whole roof off all the way around so we can lift the roof height and create a bowl
(Too much athnosphere gets trapped in each section). Rail seating in the entire lower bowl. New south stand that can lean over the railway without needing footings on the other side. Maybe an external concourse to provide more facilities.
The quadrants are one of the worst things. I had a season ticket there and the whole seating layout is weird and inefficient. When you compare it to Wembley, or the Allianz arena and how nearly a fresh build fits seats in.
Obviously with the time pandemic it’s not a good time to spend a £1bn but Old Trafford has such issues. Last time I went to a game I had to ask someone to switch seats so I could be on the end of the row due to a lack of leg room. It’s really out of date.
Personally, I’d like to see a reconfiguration rather than a full rebuild. Rip the whole roof off all the way around so we can lift the roof height and create a bowl
(Too much athnosphere gets trapped in each section). Rail seating in the entire lower bowl. New south stand that can lean over the railway without needing footings on the other side. Maybe an external concourse to provide more facilities.
The quadrants are one of the worst things. I had a season ticket there and the whole seating layout is weird and inefficient. When you compare it to Wembley, or the Allianz arena and how nearly a fresh build fits seats in.
I want a 90,000+ capacity to reclaim our PL record! Spurs record is a sham record.
These are both brand spanking new, Old Trafford isn't.
Just find a speaker sponsor and put acoustics mic at singing sections and call it a day.
We'd probably have to sacrifice a transfer window for a stadium revamp. We'll have to get the timing right.
So upgrades to the away changing room and the media facilities. Consider me unimpressed.