Luckhurst: United prepared to move for a holding midfielder in January

[#07]

It's not delusional though - Lingard came into West Ham and was their best player, or up there. Ings has gone for £30m, one year left on his contract and presumably not on low wages. It's not too unfair to think Lingard could fetch £20m, or something tangible at least. Pereira is bang average but still a top flight level squad player, 25 and not on huge wages. Should certainly be fetching up to £10m for him from somewhere. Dalot is a young international RB who is versatile. City have been binning much less distinguished youngsters for reasonable money.

£25-30m from sales / loan fees would make a dent in the RB or CM fund.

Lingard earns £100,000 a week. Nobody is going to buy him for £30m, and meet his wage demands, with one year left on his deal. Nobody.

Pereira for £10m? Why? For £10m you can get a player every bit as good who won't be paid anything like the £50,000 a week he gets at United.

Dalot, it's possible to think of getting decent money for. But again there are, as Milan showed by going after one, alternatives on the market. So why cough up what we want?

There is no market in which we are getting anything close to £50m for these players. None of them are worth it to anyone.

 

[Eugenius]

Lingard earns £100,000 a week. Nobody is going to buy him for £30m, and meet his wage demands, with one year left on his deal. Nobody.

Pereira for £10m? Why? For £10m you can get a player every bit as good who won't be paid anything like the £50,000 a week he gets at United.

Dalot, it's possible to think of getting decent money for. But again there are, as Milan showed by going after one, alternatives on the market. So why cough up what we want?

There is no market in which we are getting anything close to £50m for these players. None of them are worth it to anyone.

According to the Athletic, Ings is on 120k a week at Villa. 29, 1 year left on deal and went for £25m. Basically identical to Lingard.

 

[#07]

According to the Athletic, Ings is on 120k a week at Villa. 29, 1 year left on deal and went for £25m. Basically identical to Lingard.

You are comparing two players in two different positions, who are serving two different needs.

United paid more for both for Varane, even though Varane was also in the last year of his deal. We did that because we felt there was a need to and it couldn't wait a year.

But in Jesse's case it will not make or break West Ham's season to wait. West Ham aren't likely to win anything, they're not likely to get relegated. Yes, Jesse would make them better. But is it worth £30m to them to be a bit better, especially when Jesse can sign a pre-contract with them in four months?

If Jesse ends up going before September for £30m I will be speechless. Just as in Pereira's case, my bet is eventually United will have to abandon our unrealistic valuation.

 

[hobbers]

I think £15-20m are realistic prices for Lingard, James and Dalot. But the board are far too stupid to understand that, and demand amounts clubs would never even countenance paying.

Pereira is a woeful footballer you are never going to find a club willing to pay more than £1-2m for him. Hence why a season loan deal again. Keep that up until we have to renew his deal to "protect his value"

 

[davidmichael]

Realistically I think £20 million for Lingard, £10 million for Pereira, £10 million for Dalot, £5 million for Chong are all perfectly fair prices whilst I just don’t see why Jones’ contract isn’t just ripped up or come to a mutual agreement as he’s as pointless on United’s books as I would be.

That’s £45 million in transfer fees and around £350K a week in wages off the wage bill, in a market that’s been crippled by COVID that’s as good as we could hope for.

Throw in De Gea, Bailly, Matic and Mata off the wage bill next year and almost certainly albeit for different reasons Cavani and that’s another £1 million off the wage bill too but it’ll come down to how well the new structure works in regards to outgoings.

 

[El Presidente]

If Garner’s and Diallo’s loans fetch 2-3m each and we sell Lingard (25m should be realistic) we would have accumulated 45 million from transfers and loan fees. This surely warrants funds for a midfielder I reckon?

 

[#07]

I think £15-20m are realistic prices for Lingard, James and Dalot. But the board are far too stupid to understand that, and demand amounts clubs would never even countenance paying.

Pereira is a woeful footballer you are never going to find a club willing to pay more than £1-2m for him. Hence why a season loan deal again. Keep that up until we have to renew his deal to "protect his value"

I know you are joking about Andreas getting a new deal. However, at this point, I genuinely wouldn't be shocked to see United give the guy a new five year deal on £40k a week. We renewed Eric Bailly and Phil Jones, who've spent more time on the treatment table than Andreas has spent on loan. Wouldn't really be a shock.

 

[Eugenius]

You are comparing two players in two different positions, who are serving two different needs.

United paid more for both for Varane, even though Varane was also in the last year of his deal. We did that because we felt there was a need to and it couldn't wait a year.

But in Jesse's case it will not make or break West Ham's season to wait. West Ham aren't likely to win anything, they're not likely to get relegated. Yes, Jesse would make them better. But is it worth £30m to them to be a bit better, especially when Jesse can sign a pre-contract with them in four months?

If Jesse ends up going before September for £30m I will be speechless. Just as in Pereira's case, my bet is eventually United will have to abandon our unrealistic valuation.

We paid more for Varane, because we can and because he's Varane. Lingard came in, was instantly one of their best players and secured West Ham as a Europa League team and briefly flirted with CL. There is definitely going to be some brinkmanship with whether they wait for him on a free, but he's certainly still got a decent transfer value if he goes this window.

 

[Pickle85]

We paid more for Varane, because we can and because he's Varane. Lingard came in, was instantly one of their best players and secured West Ham as a Europa League team and briefly flirted with CL. There is definitely going to be some brinkmanship with whether they wait for him on a free, but he's certainly still got a decent transfer value if he goes this window.

Depends what you mean by decent. I'd be delighted with 20 mill from him but even that seems toppy, given the situation with his contract.

 

[Gums]

Realistically I think £20 million for Lingard, £10 million for Pereira, £10 million for Dalot, £5 million for Chong are all perfectly fair prices whilst I just don’t see why Jones’ contract isn’t just ripped up or come to a mutual agreement as he’s as pointless on United’s books as I would be.

Even if those prices were their realistic market value, and I’m not saying they’re not, I think there are too many other options available.

If I was looking to sign one of those players or a similar alternative, I‘d probably go for the alternatives most of the time.

The Utd players have experience at the highest level going for them and it‘s probably nice for your club to attract a bit of attention for a few days or weeks.

I think the downsides outweigh the upsides - a player who „failed“. High wage. Possibly only seeing your club as a short-term steppingstone. Maybe an attitude of „I’m better than this club“.

The only exception I think makes sense, is somebody like Lingard, who has proven that he can perform great in a team like West Ham (until his form drops again?). I don‘t understand why WH doesn‘t buy him, if they can afford him.

 

[Garethw]

I am absolutely delighted with Sancho and Varane. But if it turns out that we don’t bring in midfielder because we couldn’t sell our dead wood, then a very bitter taste will be left in my mouth.

 

[VinzentFTW]

I am absolutely delighted with Sancho and Varane. But if it turns out that we don’t bring in midfielder because we couldn’t sell our dead wood, then a very bitter taste will be left in my mouth.

True, and it will be typical United to not plug all the leaks. Varane and Sancho are good buys and will pretty much secure us top 4. A holding midfielder though would transform us to a serious title contender. No way we are winning anything with McFred at the spine, and Pogba will only work optimally in the middle with a class DM next to him. We cant use him regulary on the left hand side when Rashford returns and Sancho now in the team as well.

 

[golden_blunder]

West Ham are skint

 

[Highfather_24]

Idk why we have unrealistic demands for players, and then end up paying all their wages, and selling them for free. Did the same with Romero.

Just sell Lingard for 15M and Pereira for 5M. Those are realistic fees.

 

[DutchCruijff]

Whilst I too am keen on a defensive midfielder. Is there really a DM that's worth another 40-50M on top of what we've already got there?

Camavinga isn't a DM so he wouldn't solve that.

Neves and Saul? Good players but £40-50M worth on top of Fred/McTominay & Matic chipping in? I'm not sure.

I think Fred offers a lot int terms of his energy/dynamism but needs to sort out his composure on the ball and McTominay is still relatively young, has some improving to do. Wouldn't say either are elite but wouldn't say Neves or Saul are elite either. Not sure if they're worth £40-50M on top of what we've got.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if we get them - I do think we need Trippier more so because AWB's threat from the right flank is poor, though it may improve - but not sure if it represents a significant upgrade.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Man Utd won't sign anyone else. It has been a very good transfer window, more outgoings would have elevated it but I can't complain.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Unless Pogba is leaving I don't see us signing a midfielder. Maybe Trippier if we are to sell Lingard and Dalot, otherwise Heaton, Sancho and Varane make our window.

Matić seems to be staying, van de Beek is staying so everything indicates we won't go for a midfielder. Which isn't great but I never expected anyone after Varane anyways.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I am absolutely delighted with Sancho and Varane. But if it turns out that we don’t bring in midfielder because we couldn’t sell our dead wood, then a very bitter taste will be left in my mouth.

If we sell Lingard I can see us buying one but if he doesn't go then there's not much of a chance.

 

[groovyalbert]

Only one I can see coming in at this point is Neves if we sell Lingard.

Unless West Ham have been bluffing in regards to their transfer kitty, I'm not sure if the latter is plausible.

Seems like most clubs have decided to consolidate and go again with similar squads to last season rather than enter a risky market.

 

[Offside]

I’d absolutely love us to sign Neves. Exactly what we need in there. Still so young too.

 

[tenpoless]

Just ask Carrick to play again. Surely he can play for 1 half every 2 games?

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Only one I can see coming in at this point is Neves if we sell Lingard.

Unless West Ham have been bluffing in regards to their transfer kitty, I'm not sure if the latter is plausible.

Seems like most clubs have decided to consolidate and go again with similar squads to last season rather than enter a risky market.

Lingard out and neves in would be awesome

 

[RedRonaldo]

Realistically I think £20 million for Lingard, £10 million for Pereira, £10 million for Dalot, £5 million for Chong are all perfectly fair prices whilst I just don’t see why Jones’ contract isn’t just ripped up or come to a mutual agreement as he’s as pointless on United’s books as I would be.

That’s £45 million in transfer fees and around £350K a week in wages off the wage bill, in a market that’s been crippled by COVID that’s as good as we could hope for.

Throw in De Gea, Bailly, Matic and Mata off the wage bill next year and almost certainly albeit for different reasons Cavani and that’s another £1 million off the wage bill too but it’ll come down to how well the new structure works in regards to outgoings.

Realistically it will be much harder to find all the buyers than you’d have thought.

 

[davidmichael]

Realistically it will be much harder to find all the buyers than you’d have thought.

We tend to make it hard on ourselves because we ask unrealistic fees and accept loans with no obligation to buy whilst paying the majority of wages, it’s not as if we haven’t had time to move them on as they’ve either barely or not at all played for us for over a year.

 

[RedRonaldo]

We tend to make it hard on ourselves because we ask unrealistic fees and accept loans with no obligation to buy whilst paying the majority of wages, it’s not as if we haven’t had time to move them on as they’ve either barely or not at all played for us for over a year.

Not only that, our average players tend to get higher wages here, which makes it harder for other clubs to match.

 

[giorno]

Realistically I think £20 million for Lingard, £10 million for Pereira, £10 million for Dalot, £5 million for Chong are all perfectly fair prices whilst I just don’t see why Jones’ contract isn’t just ripped up or come to a mutual agreement as he’s as pointless on United’s books as I would be.

They are not though. Not in this market. Ings going for that was an aberration, one born of Villa knowing they were likely to get a massive injection of money from the sale of Graelish

Everyone else does.not.have.any.money.

- Lingard is a wantaway player with a 1 year left on his deal - anybody interested can just wait.
- Pereira has literally no value. Zero. He's not wanted by his club, he failed in every loan spell and what minutes he did get at united made it clear he wasn't a PL caliber player. He's 25. At this point, anybody considering him is either from a significantly lower level of football - and thus, money as well - or is willing to take a punt based on his teenage hype. A punt in this market = loan with option to buy.
- Dalot is a united player and spent a good year on loan at milan. He's not going to be signing for Everton. It's either a big club - and of those, nobody's spending money on a backup RWB in this market - or he stays

 

[CM]

They are not though. Not in this market. Ings going for that was an aberration, one born of Villa knowing they were likely to get a massive injection of money from the sale of Graelish

Everyone else does.not.have.any.money.

- Lingard is a wantaway player with a 1 year left on his deal - anybody interested can just wait.
- Pereira has literally no value. Zero. He's not wanted by his club, he failed in every loan spell and what minutes he did get at united made it clear he wasn't a PL caliber player. He's 25. At this point, anybody considering him is either from a significantly lower level of football - and thus, money as well - or is willing to take a punt based on his teenage hype. A punt in this market = loan with option to buy.
- Dalot is a united player and spent a good year on loan at milan. He's not going to be signing for Everton. It's either a big club - and of those, nobody's spending money on a backup RWB in this market - or he stays

The Premier League teams haven't been stung anywhere near as badly as lower league teams and teams abroad.

Lingard and Dalot could certainly fetch those fees if Premier League teams were interested. Arsenal have spent well over £100m in this window with no European football.

Teams want to get the best deal possible for them, as is always the case. West Ham have already spoken of their interest in Lingard in this window but probably feel it benefits them to leave it late to make an offer.

 

[giorno]

The Premier League teams haven't been stung anywhere near as badly as lower league teams and teams abroad.

Lingard and Dalot could certainly fetch those fees if Premier League teams were interested. Arsenal have spent well over £100m in this window with no European football.

Teams want to get the best deal possible for them, as is always the case. West Ham have already spoken of their interest in Lingard in this window but probably feel it benefits them to leave it late to make an offer.

Lingard has 1 one year left on his deal - no PL side is going to spend serious money on a transfer fee when they can wait

Dalot was wanted by Milan, a CL side. He was never going to accept a lesser destination when that was still on the table. Then Ole took that off the table by deciding to just keep him

Deals are about leverage. That's why United got Varane for £35/40M. That's why they're not getting £30, or even £20M for Lingard

 

[CM]

Lingard has 1 one year left on his deal - no PL side is going to spend serious money on a transfer fee when they can wait

Dalot was wanted by Milan, a CL side. He was never going to accept a lesser destination when that was still on the table. Then Ole took that off the table by deciding to just keep him

Deals are about leverage. That's why United got Varane for £35/40M. That's why they're not getting £30, or even £20M for Lingard

Lingard nearly took West Ham to Champions League football last season. They've spent a nominal fee on Dawson and signed Areola on loan.

It's fair to say they've got the capacity to sign Lingard for £20m if they've got ambition to do well this season. The contract doesn't dictate terms, you see players leaving in their final year all the time.

Milan have never registered a serious interest in Dalot. The stumbling block there is they want a loan deal and we want a sale to let him go. If Everton (or a similar club) offered a permanent transfer and the opportunity of regular football instead of being sat on our bench or in the stands for 90% of the season, I would imagine that's more appealing to him.

 

[giorno]

Lingard nearly took West Ham to Champions League football last season. They've spent a nominal fee on Dawson and signed Areola on loan.

It's fair to say they've got the capacity to sign Lingard for £20m if they've got ambition to do well this season. The contract doesn't dictate terms, you see players leaving in their final year all the time.

They can have him for free in a year. The more time passes, the better their position. Why should they pay £20M now when they might get him for £10 in another 10 days time, or £6-8 in January, or for free next season?

Because they *almost* made CL in a weird season?

Milan have never registered a serious interest in Dalot. The stumbling block there is they want a loan deal and we want a sale to let him go. If Everton (or a similar club) offered a permanent transfer and the opportunity of regular football instead of being sat on our bench or in the stands for 90% of the season, I would imagine that's more appealing to him.

True enough. Which still doesn't change the fact that if only one club was interested, and they only would take him on loan, then any price other than a loan is unrealistic

For what is worth, i think you might actually be able to offload dalot for something in the £5-10M region towards the end of the window IF Trippier becomes available

 

[bosnian_red]

They can have him for free in a year. The more time passes, the better their position. Why should they pay £20M now when they might get him for £10 in another 10 days time, or £6-8 in January, or for free next season?

Because they *almost* made CL in a weird season?


True enough. Which still doesn't change the fact that if only one club was interested, and they only would take him on loan, then any price other than a loan is unrealistic

For what is worth, i think you might actually be able to offload dalot for something in the £5-10M region towards the end of the window IF Trippier becomes available

Clubs like West Ham need to capitalize on good periods and continually improve if they want to keep attracting players to progress upwards. They can't use the logic of "free in a year" because they might have a shite season, and then they won't be able to compete for players like that in a year.

 

[Abraxas]

"Could" fetch a fee and will fetch a fee are two completely different things.

It's not impossible to imagine Lingard fetching 15-20 million plus someone picking up his substantial wages, as in its not a ridiculous statement. But at the same time, there doesn't seem to be hatfuls of buyers. West Ham are the obvious candidates but they rightly know it's an expensive package. It's not trivial to get him gone. If he has another season here and doesn't get a look in he won't necessarily be able to leverage the free transfer into excessive wages so it's smart for them to wait too. You have to see it from the other clubs point of view.

Periera, Jones are worth nothing at all to anybody.

Dalot, well..if we don't get somebody in what's to say we even want him gone? At the moment he's probably the stand in right back. If we haven't got anybody better and it's not clear Williams is then we can't sell.

Also, you can't just compare to Ings. That makes no sense at all. He's a goal scorer. They are gold in the PL. Lingard, despite his good period..is not.

 

[CM]

They can have him for free in a year. The more time passes, the better their position. Why should they pay £20M now when they might get him for £10 in another 10 days time, or £6-8 in January, or for free next season?

Because they *almost* made CL in a weird season?


True enough. Which still doesn't change the fact that if only one club was interested, and they only would take him on loan, then any price other than a loan is unrealistic

For what is worth, i think you might actually be able to offload dalot for something in the £5-10M region towards the end of the window IF Trippier becomes available

Why did we buy Varane when he's available for nothing next year? There's value in having the player here and now if they can contribute to your season. West Ham also have European football so you need a big squad to cope with that.

There's so many variables in football too. Just because he's out of contract in 12 months, that doesn't mean West Ham will have a free run at him. Players and agents can also ask for more in wages, signing on fees and agent fees if there's no transfer fee involved. There's no such thing as a 'free' transfer.

I'd be surprised if Dalot goes now. Unless we get an offer resembling closer what we paid to him, he's worth more to us as a squad player than a £5m fee. He's 22 years old, his value hasn't depreciated that much.

 

[giorno]

Clubs like West Ham need to capitalize on good periods and continually improve if they want to keep attracting players to progress upwards. They can't use the logic of "free in a year" because they might have a shite season, and then they won't be able to compete for players like that in a year.

Disagree. Clubs like west ham can't capitalize on good periods. What they need to do is constantly pull off great deals in the market for players flying under the radar of the bigger clubs, AND be lucky enough to attract a top level manager, AND do all that while the bigger clubs go through a period of transition or just plain feck up

Realistically, getting Lingard now for big money in this market, or in a year for much less money, is a no brainer for them

 

[giorno]

Why did we buy Varane when he's available for nothing next year? There's value in having the player here and now if they can contribute to your season. West Ham also have European football so you need a big squad to cope with that.

Because unlike West Ham, you have a lot of money to spend and signing Varane could make a significant difference between finishing 4th or challenging for the title

There's so many variables in football too.

Yes, and the biggest variable of all right now is financial uncertainty

 

[bosnian_red]

Disagree. Clubs like west ham can't capitalize on good periods. What they need to do is constantly pull off great deals in the market for players flying under the radar of the bigger clubs, AND be lucky enough to attract a top level manager, AND do all that while the bigger clubs go through a period of transition or just plain feck up

Realistically, getting Lingard now for big money in this market, or in a year for much less money, is a no brainer for them

Theyre in the europa league right now, this is the time when they have to capitalize on a decent squad. The reputation boost that comes with being successful is massive and is what they need more than anything. Lingard would give them a better chance of that as he dragged them there in the first place. Of course they have to consistently get lucky and make smart decisions over time like Leicester, but you definitely have to capitalize on a good period to get yourself a reputation boost and be able to attract some higher profile players or youngsters.

 

[bosnian_red]

Because unlike West Ham, you have a lot of money to spend and signing Varane could make a significant difference between finishing 4th or challenging for the title


Yes, and the biggest variable of all right now is financial uncertainty

Premier league clubs are far better off financially than any other league in the world. Without a doubt. That's why others are worried about it becoming a defacto super league anyway.

 

[CM]

Because unlike West Ham, you have a lot of money to spend and signing Varane could make a significant difference between finishing 4th or challenging for the title


Yes, and the biggest variable of all right now is financial uncertainty

West Ham have money to spend too, as I highlighted in an earlier post. They've spent big on Benrahma and Haller in recent windows, this kind of signing wouldn't be unusual for them in their model.

It's all relative. For United success is the title, or getting close to it. For West Ham they'll want to maintain European football, and having Lingard this season would go some way in helping them achieve that.

 

[giorno]

Premier league clubs are far better off financially than any other league in the world. Without a doubt. That's why others are worried about it becoming a defacto super league anyway.

No, not really. The only PL clubs who have spent significant money this window are the manchester clubs, chelsea, arsenal and aston villa. And the latter got £100M from graelish. It's quite clear that PL clubs aside from the megarich do not, in fact, have a lot of money to spend

West Ham have money to spend too, as I highlighted in an earlier post. They've spent big on Benrahma and Haller in recent windows, this kind of signing wouldn't be unusual for them in their model.

It's all relative. For United success is the title, or getting close to it. For West Ham they'll want to maintain European football, and having Lingard this season would go some way in helping them achieve that.

Even if they want Lingard and even if they actually do have money to spend, it still makes no sense for them to not wait you out

 

[bosnian_red]

Even if they want Lingard and even if they actually do have money to spend, it still makes no sense for them to not wait you out

How does it make sense when they are in the europa league right now and might not make it next year without him? Get him and increase their odds of success in it this season, and increase odds to get a higher position next year. I don't get the logic for them to wait a year. When you are in a peak window like they are now, the worst thing to do is delay and miss out on some potential glory, which is the ultimate point.