Should we give up on Anthony Martial?

[pacifictheme]

Think he needs a change of scene. Club has fecked him about with position and shirt number changes but other than that period after bruno came he's never been outstanding consistently. Time to move him on i think. I'd be giving his minutes up top to Greenwood who imo is already a better player in that position.

 

[Pretzels81]

I want him gone.

That kind of attacker that could do anything but does nothing.

Not good enough. Nothing new.

 

[ForeverRed1]

If the attitude and mentality isn’t right .. he’s not a united player.

look at Cavani for a perfect example of how you wear a united shirt.

the difference between the two is night and day.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I'm perfectly happy to sell him if we were bringing in one of the upper echelons of #9's as an alternative - Haaland, Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku, Mbappe...

However, that sort of discussion is for next summer. This season, we're not addressing that area and he's clearly going to stay and battle for the #9 with Cavani and Greenwood, and for the wide left spot - especially with Rashford's lengthy absence.

He's inconsistent, and gives the impression that he isn't the type of #9 who lives for goals, or the type of player who desperately wants to win and hurts when the club don't, etc. Which is why I'll be perfectly happy to upgrade him next summer if we're able to attract one of the very top 9's when Cavani leaves.

However, for this season, he's going to be a regular part of the first team squad and, hopefully, we'll see more of the 2019/20 Martial, and less of the 2020/21 Martial. But a player so continually inconsistent shouldn't be relied upon to take on the mantle of our main #9 when Cavani leaves next summer.

 

[crossy1686]

Think he needs a change of scene. Club has fecked him about with position and shirt number changes but other than that period after bruno came he's never been outstanding consistently. Time to move him on i think. I'd be giving his minutes up top to Greenwood who imo is already a better player in that position.

"Hey, can you play LW? It's like ST but you can run at people instead of playing with your back to goal" - "Sure, no problem"
"Also, we want to change your shirt number" - "That's too much, this is going to be on my mind for at least 12 months..."

If he's that affected by the day to day shit of playing for an elite club his mentality is piss poor.

 

[Kcocymkcus]

With any striker just follow this simple process...Either/Or...if you had a choice to pick for a match tomorrow.

Martial or Van Nistlerooy
Martial or Van Persie
Martial or Andy Cole
Martial or Dwight Yorke
Martial or Cavani
Martial or Mark Hughes
Martial or Teddy Sheringham
Martial or Watne Rooney

Once you do that, you'll quickly realise that no matter how much Martial keeps bleating on about wanting to be a striker, he simply isn't one.
United won't win anything with him up front, he should have been offloaded 2 seasons ago.
I've watched United for over 50 years, he's not good enough. Fact.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Think he needs a change of scene. Club has fecked him about with position and shirt number changes but other than that period after bruno came he's never been outstanding consistently. Time to move him on i think. I'd be giving his minutes up top to Greenwood who imo is already a better player in that position.

That is nonsense honestly.

He's been given plenty of chances and by all accounts, Ole preferred him over Lukaku.

He's also getting paid like one of the best players in the league despite being nowhere near it.

 

[noodlehair]

Whether he stays or goes he shouldn't be getting near the match day squad performing like that. It was the same before his injury for months and Ole kept picking him anyway...and honestly that is where the problem is. You're not going to see an improvement from someone like Martial when the manager doesn't give him any reason to need to improve

 

[foolsgold]

Think he needs a change of scene. Club has fecked him about with position and shirt number changes but other than that period after bruno came he's never been outstanding consistently. Time to move him on i think. I'd be giving his minutes up top to Greenwood who imo is already a better player in that position.

Whilst he's been "fecked about" he's being paid 1m pounds a month. For that kind of return I expect absolute dedication and being willing to crawl over broken glass for the jersey, not this half arse attitude we get.

 

[Mockney]

Yeah, not having that he’s been fecked around. He’s sulked whenever he’s been given any competition as a striker, and only really flourished in the couple of seasons he was fully assured of a starting spot due to us having a pretty crap squad, which frankly, is not how an elite side should ever operate. All the same positional shit has happened to Rashford & Greenwood too.

Also the shirt number thing is such small fry stuff it should’ve been an immediate red flag.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Yeah, not having that he’s been fecked around. He’s sulked whenever he’s been given any competition as a striker, and only really flourished in the couple of seasons he was fully assured of a starting spot due to us having a pretty crap squad, which frankly, is not how an elite side should ever operate. All the same positional shit has happened to Rashford & Greenwood too.

Also the shirt number thing is such small fry stuff it should’ve been an immediate red flag.

Yep, players regularly switching between central #9 (or #10) and one of the two wide positions, is a very common thing nowadays. Especially if you're a mobile player whose strongest assets are more with the ball at your feet running at goal, rather than an obvious back to goal target man.

Unless you're a big physical striker who can't play out wide then most attacking players will switch between roles - as you say, the same happens to Rashford and Greenwood; and the likes of Sancho and James will switch wings and, at U18/U23 level, the next generation such as Elanga, Shoretire, Mejbri, Hoogewerf, etc, are all used to rotating in those positions. That's just a big part of modern football as opposed to the rigid 4-4-2, everyone knows their position and plays it every week, set up that used to be popular.

 

[BAMSOLA]

Yes.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

With any striker just follow this simple process...Either/Or...if you had a choice to pick for a match tomorrow.

Martial or Van Nistlerooy
Martial or Van Persie
Martial or Andy Cole
Martial or Dwight Yorke
Martial or Cavani
Martial or Mark Hughes
Martial or Teddy Sheringham
Martial or Watne Rooney

Once you do that, you'll quickly realise that no matter how much Martial keeps bleating on about wanting to be a striker, he simply isn't one.
United won't win anything with him up front, he should have been offloaded 2 seasons ago.
I've watched United for over 50 years, he's not good enough. Fact.

I want Martial out too. I don't mind when players are going through bad patches but then if you show the mentality, drive and attitude, fans will forgive. If Cavani kept playing the way he does but the goals dried up, fans would still think fondly of him because you can see the effort.

However, you are comparing him to the legendary strikers of United.

If we compare him to the EPL strikers in other teams right now (minus the absolute top bracket), would you take any of these ahead of him?

Werner
Firminho
Jesus
Auba
Lacazette
Iheanacho

He probably falls nicely in the middle somewhere there.

I think it's time to put away the dream that he will ever fulfill his potential with United and either sell him or make it clear to him that he'll always be nothing more than a squad filler.

If he has the ambition to grow and potentially break into the France national team, he should ask for a transfer. I hope he does.

 

[edgecutter]

When he got injured last season I totally forgot he existed. How he was allowed to start yesterday's match with the absolute horrid form is something only ole can explain. He should be shipped out, but due to astronomical wages this club hands out it will never happen.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Yep, players regularly switching between central #9 (or #10) and one of the two wide positions, is a very common thing nowadays. Especially if you're a mobile player whose strongest assets are more with the ball at your feet running at goal, rather than an obvious back to goal target man.

Unless you're a big physical striker who can't play out wide then most attacking players will switch between roles - as you say, the same happens to Rashford and Greenwood; and the likes of Sancho and James will switch wings and, at U18/U23 level, the next generation such as Elanga, Shoretire, Mejbri, Hoogewerf, etc, are all used to rotating in those positions. That's just a big part of modern football as opposed to the rigid 4-4-2, everyone knows their position and plays it every week, set up that used to be popular.

Completely disagree.

None of the top strikers, Cavani, Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku, Benzema...."Switch between roles", top players know their position, it's that simple.

Martial is in a bad run of form after his injury and before his injury, I don't know if he will get it back but I think he is a #9, reminds me of a slightly quicker Memphis Depay out of form quite simply...

 

[Wayne's World]

Should have given up on Martial two years ago. Doesn't have the right attitude or work rate to be a top player.

And it's sad because he is perhaps one of the most talented players I've seen coming to United but If he doesn't want it enough there's not alot you can do but shift him out eventually

 

[Oddboy]

Completely disagree.

None of the top strikers, Cavani, Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku, Benzema...."Switch between roles", top players know their position, it's that simple.

Martial is in a bad run of form after his injury and before his injury, I don't know if he will get it back but I think he is a #9, reminds me of a slightly quicker Memphis Depay out of form quite simply...

Except that two of those players you listed did play out wide semi-regularly at some point in their career: Cavani for 1/3 of his games at PSG, and Benzema also played LW for OL.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Give up on him? Well, it ultimately depends on how we want to play.

For instance, the manager said in his presser yesterday that our main problem up front was that we didn't attempt enough runs in-behind. The truth is that, if you want to see runs in-behind, you don't start Martial up front. Then you think about it a bit more and you start to scratch your head because, in Solskjaer's system, the lead forward looks at his absolute best when he operates in the spaces between the lines and allows Bruno and co. to get in the box. But, apparently, we crave for Haaland, whose main asset is that he attacks the box like a bull. But when we had Lukaku to make these runs, we chose to play with Lingard as a false #9. What do we want from the man spearheading the attack?

I'll admit i'm not Martial's biggest fan. I don't think he's lazy or that he lacks application. And i certainly don't think he's that soft to always need pampering and a pat on the back. What i've always thought is that his case is a classic one of a player whose football intelligence doesn't match his technical abilities. It's frustrating because he has the ability for combination plays, but his off the ball movement and his positioning leave a lot to be desired. When the options are there for him (either acres of space with runners left and right or plenty of players around him to link-up with), he can set the world on fire. When he has to strive for pockets of space, he just drifts from the CF position to the left half-space aimlessly. Or rather, it stops being an aimless stroll whenever Shaw, Pogba and a midfielder overload the left side to allow Martial time on the ball and to give him options to pick from. It comes as no surprise that his best period at the club was during project restart when we enjoyed spells of good possession in the attacking half and we managed to get many players around the box.

United's attackers (the three and the one in our 4231) may have different individual qualities, but they all share one thing: They thrive on directness and instinct. We have bags of quality up front which allow us to outperform our xG, but we are not clever enough. We score great goals, beautiful goals, but we don't score the "easy" goals very often. And that's why we cry out for Cavani with his tonnes of experience to start. Despite him probably not being the prototypical Solskjaer forward. In this sense, if our expectation is to turn Martial into this player who will be able to spot the overloads and time his runs to perfection in order to create opportunities for him and his teammates out of nothing, because he "looks like" a silky player with good dribbling and link-up skills, we should cut our losses short and look elsewhere for that player.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Completely disagree.

None of the top strikers, Cavani, Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku, Benzema...."Switch between roles", top players know their position, it's that simple.

Martial is in a bad run of form after his injury and before his injury, I don't know if he will get it back but I think he is a #9, reminds me of a slightly quicker Memphis Depay out of form quite simply...

You're not 'completely disagreeing' with my point as I'd covered all of that by stressing I wasn't talking about the kind of out and out #9's who can't play out wide - like Kane, Lewandowski, etc. And was discussing the growing number of mobile, betwixt and between players that Martial falls into. And saying the same applies to most of our attacking options except Cavani, so he's hardly been 'messed around' by switching positions.

And, inidentally, for years Cavani was capable of switching all across the front line and did so for club and country - it's only in his later years he's solely become an out and out #9.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

He's one of those players that seems like there's always "something" getting in his way from being a top player.

Playing out wide and running at players is fine, but tracking the full back gets in his way, playing up top is fine, but hold up play gets in his way, playing poacher is fine, but last second movement gets in his way, playing with top players is fine, but competition gets in his way, having consistent games is fine, but consistent performances gets in his way.

I always thought that it was just a resting sulk face, but I really don't think it is, he fundamentally does not seem regulate his emotions enough to boost himself and seems to constantly be finding fault in the situation he's in.

I'm guessing all that from his performances and what we see of his facial expressions and body language, but we've been watching the same behaviour with the same results for 6 years.

I'd rather someone less skilled but emotionally more resilient than Martial. I think his time is up.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Except that two of those players you listed did play out wide semi-regularly at some point in their career: Cavani for 1/3 of his games at PSG, and Benzema also played LW for OL.

Benzema played LW as a youth, that doesn't count and Cavani doesn't switch positions, he simply made way for a superior player, he wasn't the same on the wing, he wasn't suited at all.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

You're not 'completely disagreeing' with my point as I'd covered all of that by stressing I wasn't talking about the kind of out and out #9's who can't play out wide - like Kane, Lewandowski, etc. And was discussing the growing number of mobile, betwixt and between players that Martial falls into. And saying the same applies to most of our attacking options except Cavani, so he's hardly been 'messed around' by switching positions.

And, inidentally, for years Cavani was capable of switching all across the front line and did so for club and country - it's only in his later years he's solely become an out and out #9.

Who are these players that switch positions and play at a high level out of interest? I can't think of any genuinely...

 

[Matt851]

Genuinely think we are better off when he is unavailable these days because Ole will continue to play him no matter how bad his performances are

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Who are these players that switch positions and play at a high level out of interest? I can't think of any genuinely...

You're kidding, yeah?

Just to name a few - Rashford and Greenwood at United (and at the same level or higher as Martial, who we were discussing).

Players like Ronaldo (Ballon D'or as RW, LS, now #9), Messi, Cavani (for most of his career until now), Mbappe, Neymar, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Ferran, Son, Depay (who you compared Martial to), Muller, Aubameyang, Richarlison.. and so many, many more. All of these have played various starting positions in attack - #9, #10, right attack, left attack, etc.

It's much easier to name the few attacking players who only stick to just one position nowadays.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I refuse to judge him oin yesterday's turn. He is clearly not match fit. Its the coaching staff's fault they started him

 

[KingCavani]

I refuse to judge him oin yesterday's turn. He is clearly not match fit. Its the coaching staff's fault they started him

So what about the last 5 years?

 

[Lougie86]

I gave up on him a long time ago. Only problem is who would buy him?

 

[djembatheking]

I gave up on him a long time ago. Only problem is who would buy him?

No one will buy him, I doubt we would be able to get rid of him on a free as his wages are so high .

 

[Marty1968]

Get rid! has had plenty of opportunities but not delivered. Doesn't have the work rate i want to see in a striker (al la Tevez/Cavani/Hughes). He's been played in different positions is he's not good enough in any of them! Sell him off to Italy - could do well at somewhere like Inter.

 

[Giggsy13]

Make United Great Again

MUGA!

 

[jem]

Whether he stays or goes he shouldn't be getting near the match day squad performing like that. It was the same before his injury for months and Ole kept picking him anyway...and honestly that is where the problem is. You're not going to see an improvement from someone like Martial when the manager doesn't give him any reason to need to improve

My memory is hazy, but I seem to remember him losing his starting role to Cavani around the beginning of the year (and also having given up a lot of minutes to Cavani prior to that until the whole unfortunate Instagram suspension for Cavani.) Am I remembering incorrectly?

 

[jem]

So what about the last 5 years?

The last 5 years have been marked by some promising seasons (his debut and his 3rd season, when Mourinho inexplicably sidelined him after getting Sanchez), a difficult second season (no big surprise for a young player - Mason went through it last season), a very good season (2019-20), and a bad year (last year.) He hasn't set the world on fire, but I don't think he's been the massive bust some make him out to be.

 

[VorZakone]

Yes, get it over with or else you get an Ozil-esque situation where somebody occasionally turns up but both parties (club and player) are unhappy.

 

[dal]

Yes, ages ago.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I've given up on him anyway, and I would describe myself as a Martial fan.

Hopefully Ole recognises this as the club certainly will not win any of the cups with Martial starting as striker.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Honestly, it looks like Anthony Martial has given up on Martial. At least at United. There's just no drive in him when he plays. I know words like "drive" and "passion" are often derided (and sometimes rightly so), but as a fan, when things aren't going well for a player and they're maybe out of form, the least you expect from them is to look like they care. It's not the be-all and end-all, but it's something.

Obviously, I'm not inside the guy's head and perhaps he cares a lot and is probably frustrated himself, but this is not a one-off. I don't see it in his movement off the ball. I don't see him breaking his neck to get into the box to pounce on a ball (a la, Cavani). There are only so many times you can say "that's just his demeanor" when it comes to defending this seeming lack of interest. We know the talent is there as he's shown it on many occasions.

I wouldn't be sad to see him moved on. It was a bonkers decision by Ole to start him yesterday, by the way.

 

[Danish Wizard]

Martial doesn't have the quality and the stability to be the main striker for United. The same goes as a left sided winger.
He has some qualities, but he just doesn't suit the way United should play to be title contenders in England & in Europe.
We should try to sell him next summer.

 

[golden_blunder]

Yeah, not having that he’s been fecked around. He’s sulked whenever he’s been given any competition as a striker, and only really flourished in the couple of seasons he was fully assured of a starting spot due to us having a pretty crap squad, which frankly, is not how an elite side should ever operate. All the same positional shit has happened to Rashford & Greenwood too.

Also the shirt number thing is such small fry stuff it should’ve been an immediate red flag.

He could stick that red flag up his arse doing moonies and we’d still hear excuses for him.

 

[Highlyevolved]

Yes, Martial is obliviously talented but he’s been here a number of years and I think it’s obvious his mentality isn’t right. There’s something missing.

Just heard Ronaldo is available at £24 million to buy him out of his contract on Sky Sport News. I’d do it, and possibly even send Martial the other way to as part of the deal.

Ronaldo guarantees goals, his professionalism and approach to the game, training and off the pitch would have a positive impact on the young players for years to come. The revenues from the merchandise would obviously offset some of the cost. He could alternate with Cavani as striker or play out wide. We’ve had success with older players coming in Zlatan, Cavani, Larsson, think of it like that. He’s not the Ronaldo of 5 years ago, but he’s still a match winner.

 

[Tibs]

He should be a sub for us - nothing more.

Him starting yesterday and playing for so long was criminal - even more so when you consider it meant Sancho couldn't start.