Not true, they should strengthen that area in case anything happens to Antonio imo. Would be silly to sit complacent right now after two good results.Hmmm, they don't need Lingard, do they
The problems with his time here, were that a) he followed on from Fergie and we didn't know what the preceding 8 or 9 years would look like. And b) we were champions.He’s doing (and has done) a cracking job. Helps that they have an absolute gem in Declan Rice but Moyes is getting top performances out of a squad full of players that seem, on paper, nowhere near the top clubs.
So frustrating he couldn’t perform the same alchemy when he was at MUFC (nor have any of his successors).
Yeah, agreed. The whole “he inherited the title-winners!” argument makes it seem his job was way easier than it really was. All our best/oldest players went into sharp decline at once and none of the youngsters at the time ever turned out as good we’d hoped/assumed they would turn out. Welbeck, Chicharito, Nani, Anderson, Jones, Smalling, Januzaj, Lingard (ha!), Powell and Kagawa is a brutal amount of deadwood to inherit for any new manager. And they were supposed to be the core of a title-winning team!The problems with his time here, were that a) he followed on from Fergie and we didn't know what the preceding 8 or 9 years would look like. And b) we were champions.
Hindsight has told me that he perhaps want as bad as he looked at the time. I mean, this team of champions really stumbled to the title the previous season and we were horrible to watch apart from RVP. But as soon as Moyes went, those champions were all flogged anyway over the next year or two...and all of them never looked the same again full stop after Fergie (Evra probably the best off the top of my head). It was every bit a poisoned chalice at that time.
That's true. People don't seem to get it but the team that won the title in SAF's last season was on its last legs and needed a massive, massive overhaul. A combination of old aged players making one final push for a title before retiring and average players masked by SAF's tactical and man management abilities and RVP's brilliance. This wasn't a good team at all. SAF just extracted the last possible achievement for them then left them for the next manager to start the rebuild cycle.The problems with his time here, were that a) he followed on from Fergie and we didn't know what the preceding 8 or 9 years would look like. And b) we were champions.
Hindsight has told me that he perhaps wasn't as bad as he looked at the time. I mean, this team of champions really stumbled to the title the previous season and we were horrible to watch apart from RVP. But as soon as Moyes went, those champions were all flogged anyway over the next year or two...and all of them never looked the same again full stop after Fergie (Evra probably the best off the top of my head). It was every bit a poisoned chalice at that time.
He did have Kroos lined up in fairness. Hiring LVG who had been out of the club game and never known for signing players when we needed a complete rebuild and were rebuilding our recruitment infrastructure is easily Woodward’s shittest decision.I do wonder what sort of signings he would've made had he been given some time. Signings were a strength of his at Everton and has continued at West Ham, though he went off the rails at Sunderland with some terrible buys.
Can't have been worse than Van Gaal though who sold half the squad and replaced them with absolute dross. Set us back a good few years that did.
That's a little bit unfair to Woy. What he did with Fulham dwarves anything Moyes has acomplished with Everton and West Ham.I think Moyes is arguably the best midtable manager the PL has ever had.
Personally, I am not sure anyone could've followed SAF full stop. However, with that squad on it's last legs and following SAF? Not sure anyone could've done, unless they got a grace period.That's true. People don't seem to get it but the team that won the title in SAF's last season was on its last leagues and needed a massive, massive overhaul. A combination of old aged players making one final push for a title before retiring and average players masked by SAF's tactical and man management abilities and RVP's brilliance. This wasn't a good team at all. SAF just extracted the last possible achievement for them then left them for the next manager to start the rebuild cycle.
It showed later after Moyes and LVG came and just sold the majority of the team.
Doesn't change from the fact that he failed though. He couldn't cope with the pressure of succeeding SAF and he was probably also surprised by the fact that the team needed a massive rebuild. He had higher expectations of the quality of players the club could sign as shown by his interviews later about Kroos, Bale, Fabregas and stuff. He probably thought during the season that first season won't matter and the board will give him another market to try and bring some world class talent, but the board had different plans.
For depth yes, they have one of the smallest squads in the PL and no real options off the bench, Jesse can cover pretty much any of the front 4 positions in their system.Hmmm, they don't need Lingard, do they
One thing is making transfers for Everton and West Ham, another thing is making them for United. On top of that, you have to match it with charisma and a whole lot of stuff he never got going for him. Saying that - I am hugely impressed and never, ever would have thought he’d return at this level. He must have had tons of mental fights, but the guy believes in himself - damn. West Ham are at times very fun to watch, it’s not just power and adrenaline. If only Lingard was smart enough to realize he should be part of this show too…I do wonder what sort of signings he would've made had he been given some time. Signings were a strength of his at Everton and has continued at West Ham, though he went off the rails at Sunderland with some terrible buys.
Can't have been worse than Van Gaal though who sold half the squad and replaced them with absolute dross. Set us back a good few years that did.
Yeah but how many teams would have done well with adding one of our aging players as a final piece, we should have sold half the team after that year and given the manager time to rebuild. But orders from the top should have been - sell a lot of the squad and re invest. Of course if we did that in fergies last season we could have lured up and coming talent off his name alone.Personally, I am not sure anyone could've followed SAF full stop. However, with that squad on it's last legs and following SAF? Not sure anyone could've done, unless they got a grace period.
Moyes was out of his depth (although I think he is a great manager for a team that wants top 8 and the odd run at 4th) however he was given a poor hand to work with.
Actually they do. They play the way that suits Lingard plus they have a good team but still need a better squadHmmm, they don't need Lingard, do they
Uh yeah it was he was the fecking manager.The United spell tarnished his reputation a bit.
https://metro.co.uk/2014/02/10/manc...-crosses-against-fulham-on-one-video-4297797/
Obviously that was not his decision to play like that. People above were deciding how the team should play.
Yeah I never understand this conspiracy of someone else was telling him how to play. He just wasn’t big enough for here and I appreciate him trying it didn’t work but am glad he is doing well at West HamUh yeah it was he was the fecking manager.
Yeah it's nonsense. Moyes just wasn't suited to managing any big club let alone United. Just doesn't have the talent, character or personality. Getting a smaller side to punch above their weight and in around the Europa League places is his level. He done it 20 years ago with Everton and he looks to be doing it again now.Yeah I never understand this conspiracy of someone else was telling him how to play. He just wasn’t big enough for here and I appreciate him trying it didn’t work but am glad he is doing well at West Ham
Nice to see another United fan thinking this way, and saying so out loud. Agree he was treated badly by Utd, and was on a hiding to nothing following Sir Alex. Glad he’s found a club he can thrive at, even if it is West Ham!I am glad for Moyes he deserves this, very good bloke who was treated like shit here. Good to see him back in the groove.
Yeah that’s it as I said he wasn’t big enough or good enough for the huge step up. He does do well with these kind of teams that have ambition to get top 5-8 and have a decent squad. He certainly has West Ham looking the part considering how they were when he took over.Yeah it's nonsense. Moyes just wasn't suited to managing any big club let alone United. Just doesn't have the talent, character or personality. Getting a smaller side to punch above their weight and in around the Europa League places is his level. He done it 20 years ago with Everton and he looks to be doing it again now.
Yeah, agreed. The whole “he inherited the title-winners!” argument makes it seem his job was way easier than it really was. All our best/oldest players went into sharp decline at once and none of the youngsters at the time ever turned out as good we’d hoped/assumed they would turn out. Welbeck, Chicharito, Nani, Anderson, Jones, Smalling, Januzaj, Lingard (ha!), Powell and Kagawa is a brutal amount of deadwood to inherit for any new manager. And they were supposed to be the core of a title-winning team!
We’ve basically had to replace that entire squad to get competitive again. Not to mention the enormous short term shock to the system of Fergie stepping down.
I actually think he had the toughest job of any of our post-Fergie managers.
Glad I'm not alone in thinking this. I tried to put these arguments forward at the time but, like I mentioned, I don't think most of us realised the true extent of the rebuild needed.That's true. People don't seem to get it but the team that won the title in SAF's last season was on its last legs and needed a massive, massive overhaul. A combination of old aged players making one final push for a title before retiring and average players masked by SAF's tactical and man management abilities and RVP's brilliance. This wasn't a good team at all. SAF just extracted the last possible achievement for them then left them for the next manager to start the rebuild cycle.
It showed later after Moyes and LVG came and just sold the majority of the team.
Doesn't change from the fact that he failed though. He couldn't cope with the pressure of succeeding SAF and he was probably also surprised by the fact that the team needed a massive rebuild. He had higher expectations of the quality of players the club could sign as shown by his interviews later about Kroos, Bale, Fabregas and stuff. He probably thought during the season that first season won't matter and the board will give him another market to try and bring some world class talent, but the board had different plans.
I'd say he probably needed the backing and support that Ole is getting.Funny to say but I think this is the Moyes we thought we were getting from Everton.
Ultimately though, the job was too big for him and it was probably the wrong time for him as well. Succeeding SAF needed a stronger personality than the comfort zone he was in at Everton and now at WHU. He couldn't deal with such pressure.
Ask yourself why that is though. Why are West Ham players fighting for him, believing in him and playing collectively better than they are on paper? West Ham have some big players, we're not talking Sunday league. Same with Everton.Yeah it's nonsense. Moyes just wasn't suited to managing any big club let alone United. Just doesn't have the talent, character or personality. Getting a smaller side to punch above their weight and in around the Europa League places is his level. He done it 20 years ago with Everton and he looks to be doing it again now.
You could be right but we will never know. Kroos would have been a very nice start of a new chapter. Mata and Fellani though…. All those crosses against Fulham, the dire defeatist attitude (although let’s face it he probably could see we were in for a rough few years and most likely knew he wouldn’t get long enough)Ask yourself why that is though. Why are West Ham players fighting for him, believing in him and playing collectively better than they are on paper? West Ham have some big players, we're not talking Sunday league. Same with Everton.
I think there was a feeling that he wasn't a glamorous enough manager so perhaps some players and most fans didn't buy into it here. Had he brought more players in himself, who wanted to play for Manchester United under Moyes, things would have been different. They would have bought into his plan. You can't tell me that if we didn't play as well organised as West Ham, with our better players, we wouldn't look bloody good.
Fact is Woodward shit the bed before Moyes even had chance to put his stamp on things.
He didn't have the personality or the mentality to manage a club like United. The players would no doubt have picked up on that, from day one at United he set about adapting United to be as much like Everton as possible instead of him adapting to United.Ask yourself why that is though. Why are West Ham players fighting for him, believing in him and playing collectively better than they are on paper? West Ham have some big players, we're not talking Sunday league. Same with Everton.
I think there was a feeling that he wasn't a glamorous enough manager so perhaps some players and most fans didn't buy into it here. Had he brought more players in himself, who wanted to play for Manchester United under Moyes, things would have been different. They would have bought into his plan. You can't tell me that if we didn't play as well organised as West Ham, with our better players, we wouldn't look bloody good.
Woodward had no choice really Moyes was never going to turn it around at United. Not in 6 years, probably not even in 16.Fact is Woodward shit the bed before Moyes even had chance to put his stamp on things.