Further signings dependent on sales?

[JB7]

Last year panic buys (don't count Edi as free) have ultimately cost us a quality DM this year

I don't think they have though, the money was there for Sancho last year they just didn't want to be seen spending £90+m during a pandemic by all accounts. So where's it gone?

 

[laughtersassassin]

The fact we apparently can't even afford a loan without outgoings shows how poorly run we are

We renewed Mata and Lee Grant to be cheerleaders... There is two outgoings right there.

 

[bosskeano]

We need a midfielder so the best thing would be selling our best midfielder?

when was actually the last time he played midfield for us??? our best midfielder is Bruno. Pogba is a wing player by tactical set up and he certainly doesn't play the 8 or 6 for us.

 

[croadyman]

I don't think they have though, the money was there for Sancho last year they just didn't want to be seen spending £90+m during a pandemic by all accounts. So where's it gone?

Swallowed up for a debt repayment probably

 

[Catt]

The fact we apparently can't even afford a loan without outgoings shows how poorly run we are

We renewed Mata and Lee Grant to be cheerleaders... There is two outgoings right there.

Who says we can't afford a loan?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

when was actually the last time he played midfield for us??? our best midfielder is Bruno. Pogba is a wing player by tactical set up and he certainly doesn't play the 8 or 6 for us.

Bruno is a midfielder the same way Cantona, Bergkamp & Zola were.

Ie, he’s not. He’s a second striker.

 

[devilish]

No he isn't. That's about the level you should have as a 4th or so option.

I don't think he's really needed TBH. We've got Sancho, Martial, Jesse, Greenwood and Rashford on both flanks who are clearly better players then James is. Then we've got Elanga and Diallo whose got far more potential and Mata whose got more experience. James would be championship level if it wasn't for his pace. Unfortunately that pace is worthless for us as most teams play with a low block.

 

[bosskeano]

Bruno is a midfielder the same way Cantona, Bergkamp & Zola were.

Ie, he’s not. He’s a second striker.

well if that is how you define bruno then how on earth can you call Pogba a CM when he plays left wing?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

well if that is how you define bruno then how on earth can you call Pogba a CM when he plays left wing?

Average position on the pitch.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I don't think he's really needed TBH. We've got Sancho, Martial, Jesse, Greenwood and Rashford on both flanks who are clearly better players then James is. Then we've got Elanga and Diallo whose got far more potential and Mata whose got more experience. James would be championship level if it wasn't for his pace. Unfortunately that pace is worthless for us as most teams play with a low block.

Come next season you might be right. At the moment though, with Rashford injured and the 2 youths a way off from first team he is needed imo, therefore not deadwood yet.

 

[eire-red]

Yeah should have sold all 3 then brought in Trippier and top CM but like you say we will get the rhetoric about keeping players

Absolutely, Ole will point to all the options he has, but realistically he only trusts maybe 14/15 players in the squad. Why not sell 3 or 4 names, and replace with two first team players? We've even seen loans be successful over the past few seasons, but we're unwilling to loan any quality players in.

I know I'm making it very simplistic, but in reality we've been round this bend for the last 3/4 years. In fairness to Ole, he's done a lot of work unwinding the absolute mess that LVG and Mourinho left.

 

[eire-red]

Because of the fact that there has been no rumours about Martial and James leaving. In fact the news has been about us wanting to keep them. The only players who we seemed to be willing to let go are Lingard, Pereira and Dalot.

We should be selling them all, none are the required quality. Even if we only replaced them with one quality player, we'd have a net positive contribution surely?

 

[bosskeano]

Average position on the pitch.

Which is exactly why we have issues defensively when he's on the pitch as he's constantly out of position

 

[croadyman]

Absolutely, Ole will point to all the options he has, but realistically he only trusts maybe 14/15 players in the squad. Why not sell 3 or 4 names, and replace with two first team players? We've even seen loans be successful over the past few seasons, but we're unwilling to loan any quality players in.

I know I'm making it very simplistic, but in reality we've been round this bend for the last 3/4 years. In fairness to Ole, he's done a lot of work unwinding the absolute mess that LVG and Mourinho left.

Yeah we just don't buy into the midfield loan thing how Arsenal have done in recent seasons with Odegaard & Ceballos or more pertinently Chelsea did with Kovacic as well

 

[laughtersassassin]

Who says we can't afford a loan?

Reporters. Sure Saul is a loan with an Option to buy.

 

[Chicharo]

Well they ain’t signing Kane but while Sancho and Varane are great signings, I think we can all agree we could do with 1 or 2 more to properly mount a title challenge.

There’s still time of course but I don’t see it happening.

Exactly my thoughts (well,almost everybody's thoughts here). With that midfield, we are not good enough

 

[croadyman]

Exactly my thoughts (well,almost everybody's thoughts here). With that midfield, we are not good enough

Yeah midfield is utterly dreadful compared to our top 4 rivals because too many of ours are squad players at best

 

[laughtersassassin]

Yeah we just don't buy into the midfield loan thing how Arsenal have done in recent seasons with Odegaard & Ceballos or more pertinently Chelsea did with Kovacic as well

Or Chelsea with Kovacic.

I just don't want to be watching this season with us all blaming the midfield every week when it's clearly been a problem for ages.

Would be negligence to get no one

 

[devilish]

Come next season you might be right. At the moment though, with Rashford injured and the 2 youths a way off from first team he is needed imo, therefore not deadwood yet.

Rashford won't take long to return, Sancho and Greenwood are top players, Martial is talented, Elanga and Diallo can easily provide top quality cover. Then there are other options such as Telles.

James is really really limited. Without his pace he's basically a championship level player. We wouldn't need him if Ole wasn't...... What's the political correct word for it?... Hmmm cautious. Unfortunately caution must go out of the window when there is a crater in CM that needs to be filled. We need James money to buy a new CM. I'd take Neves over James any time of the week

 

[croadyman]

Or Chelsea with Kovacic.

I just don't want to be watching this season with us all blaming the midfield every week when it's clearly been a problem for ages.

Would be negligence to get no one

Yeah it will be a big problem in the games where we have to break teams down or are pressed to shite

 

[laughtersassassin]

Yeah it will be a big problem in the games where we have to break teams down or are pressed to shite

Will be shite as that's the readymade excuse for the season already.

With better planning we should have been looking to aim for the title.

With our Midfield that isn't realistically possible.

 

[Kcocymkcus]

We won't be buying anyone new now, Utd are done in the transfer market, especially for a key midfielder signing. I hope Im wrong, but Ive been here before, season after season, really hoping we make 3 good signings to really show intent, but every season that hope comes up short.
Just look at how much baggage we are still carrying in the likes of Lingard, Matic, Jones, Dalot, Pereira...people on here were commentating 4 years ago to offload them and still they are on the books.
Biggest problem is ego. The directors think 'we're United...we don't sell cheap' so they don't, then they hang on to the players not realising the damage that's being done. Its a bit like when you've been fat, lost of lot of weight, but you never clear out your wardrobe of fat clothes because 'you paid a lot of money for them, and half of them haven't been used". Same principle.
But the harsh reality is, if you want to win trophies and still be seen as a top team, you need to offload these players no matter what. Doesn't matter if you make a loss, or you don't get as much for them as you think, so what? you aren't using them anyway and they certainly aren't going to win you silverware when they do.
If Utd want to buy quality, offload the dross, forget about what you think they are worth and just accept the first half decent offer. Clear the books, clear the past, throw the old stuff on eBay and just be happy with what you get so you can put it towards a shiny new toy.
But like i said, were done in the transfer market. The only thing that might happen is we buy some two-bit 18yr old that nobody has ever heard of for £15m from a league two side, having heard he's the next Messi. Then he'll end up in the reserves for 5 years, never getting a game, only to be let out on loan or sold to a Championship side for less money. Happens time and time again.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Rashford won't take long to return, Sancho and Greenwood are top players, Martial is talented, Elanga and Diallo can easily provide top quality cover. Then there are other options such as Telles.

James is really really limited. Without his pace he's basically a championship level player. We wouldn't need him if Ole wasn't...... What's the political correct word for it?... Hmmm cautious. Unfortunately caution must go out of the window when there is a crater in CM that needs to be filled. We need James money to buy a new CM. I'd take Neves over James any time of the week

I agree with you basically, and like the first game showed and a few more along the way will, as limited as he is, he's still needed and good pace and great work ethic are not to be undervalued. If Amad, Elanga, Pelistri etc will prove themselves this season, then next season James will be on the market imo (unless he improves himself).

I assume the word you wanted to use was cowardice, and it's not that. What it is is common sense in not throwing completely inexperienced youth in the team while we hope for a title challenge. When Rashford is fit, with him, Pogba, Sancho and Greenwood, James will get few games. Right now he is needed though.

Keep in mind that Rashford's situation of needing an operation was known, Sancho needs a bit of time, Dialo played at the Olympics, Martial is coming after 5 months injury (and is being massacred by our fan base as expected...). In this situation it would have been poor management to let go of a fit and ready winger even if not of fantastic quality.

On the midfield, it's mostly a question of wages imo. and James is on little wages as far as I know. It is players like Jones and Lingard that are the main issue; next to 0 impact on the team effort and on big money. Others like Matic and Mata are not justifying their wages either. Unfortunately like we see in most clubs at this time, it is very difficult to sell unwanted players on big wages.

 

[devilish]

I agree with you basically, and like the first game showed and a few more along the way will, as limited as he is, he's still needed and good pace and great work ethic are not to be undervalued. If Amad, Elanga, Pelistri etc will prove themselves this season, then next season James will be on the market imo (unless he improves himself).

I assume the word you wanted to use was cowardice, and it's not that. What it is is common sense in not throwing completely inexperienced youth in the team while we hope for a title challenge. When Rashford is fit, with him, Pogba, Sancho and Greenwood, James will get few games. Right now he is needed though.

Keep in mind that Rashford's situation of needing an operation was known, Sancho needs a bit of time, Dialo played at the Olympics, Martial is coming after 5 months injury (and is being massacred by our fan base as expected...). In this situation it would have been poor management to let go of a fit and ready winger even if not of fantastic quality.

On the midfield, it's mostly a question of wages imo. and James is on little wages as far as I know. It is players like Jones and Lingard that are the main issue; next to 0 impact on the team effort and on big money. Others like Matic and Mata are not justifying their wages either. Unfortunately like we see in most clubs at this time, it is very difficult to sell unwanted players on big wages.

Experience? James? Just 2 years ago the guy was playing in the Championship. Also experience isn't always linked with age but with a football brain. Maldini was a teenager when he started playing football at first team level and he was already as mature then most players around him. Robbie Savage kept running after the ball like an enthusiastic puppy right till the end of his career. James is not Savage but he's hardly a very bright football either.

Speaking of experience we've got Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, Lingard and Mata who are as experienced or more experienced then James is. Then we've got 3 very promising kids in Amad, Elanga and Pelistri whose got far more talent than James. As said we desperately needs a CM and consistent rumours say that we need to first sell before buying. James fee could potentially unlock that. It seems that someone at the club prefers having his 4th or 5th choice winger at the club then add a top quality DM. That's strange considering that all we got in that role is two average players (McFred) and a former player in all but name (Matic)

And yes cowardice is a big problem with Ole. Sir Alex wouldn't have allowed the biggest transfer signing of last year rot for an entire year, he'd play Sancho immediately and he would have certainly given Diallo more game time.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Experience? James? Just 2 years ago the guy was playing in the Championship. Also experience isn't always linked with age but with a football brain. Maldini was a teenager when he started playing football at first team level and he was already as mature then most players around him. Robbie Savage kept running after the ball like an enthusiastic puppy right till the end of his career. James is not Savage but he's hardly a very bright football either.

I think you know it's not fair to compare Maldini with most players and i think you know we did give that level of responsibility to players deemed ready: Greenwood.. Even Ronaldo was looking like a "low football brain" player for a couple of seasons. James is limited yes, but he is reliable in both fitness and in doing the tactical work that we want in some games (he was key in some big games for us with the threat he was on the counter).

His reliability in terms of fitness is a key point for us, especially at the beginning of the season for the reasons I already mentioned, and you ignored.

Speaking of experience we've got Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Greenwood, Lingard and Mata who are as experienced or more experienced then James is. Then we've got 3 very promising kids in Amad, Elanga and Pelistri whose got far more talent than James. As said we desperately needs a CM and consistent rumours say that we need to first sell before buying. James fee could potentially unlock that. It seems that someone at the club prefers having his 4th or 5th choice winger at the club then add a top quality DM. That's strange considering that all we got in that role is two average players (McFred) and a former player in all but name (Matic)

Again, those players for different reasons are not available or ready. As things stand we are in the same place as last season with Sancho in for Rashford, but with Sancho needing a couple of extra weeks of work. He will start next game I think.

And yes cowardice is a big problem with Ole. Sir Alex wouldn't have allowed the biggest transfer signing of last year rot for an entire year, he'd play Sancho immediately and he would have certainly given Diallo more game time.

SAF gave the class of 92 at least one year of sporadic game time before making them first team regulars, something that seems to be forgotten now. Players that were English, locals and very much at home. Pelistri is a kid that literally moved continents not to mention culture. Dialo had les then 30 mins pro football when he came here and got more play time at second place PL team then his previous club. What more could you possibly ask? He also played at the Olympics making him not ready for the beginning of the season.

DVB is interesting I admit. Based on pre season I suspect he is being prepared for the double pivot role rather then the AM I thought he would be. Something that would indeed require a bit of time as it's different to the system he was used to at Ajax. We will see in the coming games what happens. In hindsight, it was a mistake to start Matic instead of him last game.

 

[pratyush_utd]

We need to appoint the team which Owen appointed to create his profile and use them to drum up interest in our fringe players.

Or sacrifice lamb to remove the curse

Problem is i dont think we have learned our lesson. We are still hell bent on keeping player who might have little interest in the market until no team is interested in them.

 

[choccy77]

Whilst in theory we have had a good window, in reality it's been shit.

Two great players in, one which was planned 2 years ago though.

Pogba has left us in limbo, so financially it has affected us, let alone unable to bring in 1 or 2 midfielders we desperately need and also.........

Failed to clear any of the deadwood and as a result left us with another reason why we cannot or have not brought in a midfield player we desperately are missing.

So Varene aside, it's not been a great window at all.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Everton about to Sell Richarlison and Keane.

Decent chance they might want Lingard?

Then we can buy a Midfielder hopefully

 

[GueRed]

ffs looks we're gonna see more of the walking wardrobe Matic this season.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Its nothing to do with money. We can afford it. Its got to do with the fact there are no free spaces in the team. We wont force anyone to the reserves and will try give everyone game time even a few games. Like I said in the why cant se well players thread we are a boys club and we wont force anyone out.

The talk with Lingard and Ole is like this.

Hey Lingard hows it going?
I need more game time.
I hear you. That must feel really bad. But you know I cant make any promises.
I know. I know. But Im sad.
You ever thought of moving somewhere else to get more game time. You enjoyed West Ham last season right?
Yeah it was fine. But my besties are here and I get more wages. Plus Ill get a new contract soon. Everyone does.
Ok fair enough. I wanted to bring in a new midfielder but we dont want to hurt your feelings. Let me know if you need any washing done. The missis is doing Pogbas' tonight but Im sure she can squeeze you in.
Jonsie Jonsie. How Rehab. Im counting on you for next season.

 

[Mickson]

Eight of the players you've listed there are not even senior players, let alone first team (Laird, Mengi, Garner, Hannibal, Shoretire, Amad, Elanga, Pellistri).

So that's now already down to a squad of 30, not 38, first team players.

Two of them are almost certainly not going to be part of any registered squad and will either be released, loaned, sold or stuck in the reserves before the window is through (Jones, Pereira).

So that's now 28 first team players, not 38.

Two of them are emergency backup goalkeepers (Heaton, Grant), of which I expect one will not be registered in the squad (Grant).

So that's now 26/27 first team players, not 38.

Four are young, fringe players not expecting much game time, of which most, if not all, are candidates for being loaned out and maybe even sold (Dalot, Tuanzebe, Williams, James).

So that's now potentially 22/23 first team players, not the hysterical 38 you came up with.

Of the remaining, there are two obvious candidates for sale (Pogba, Lingard).

How people can complain about us having a lack of depth, then simultaneously go on about us having near 40 "first team" players and wish for any player not an obvious contender for a place in our best starting 11 to be sold is baffling.

City had 30 players feature for them last season, we had 31. You need a large squad if you want to compete in multiple competitions.

So our squad as it stands, you slandered me for saying United's squad is too big. Here it is:

Keepers: Grant, De Gea, Henderson, Heaton. Four goalkeepers. One too many. Also highest wage bill in the world in this position.
Fullbacks: Shaw, Telles, AWB, Dalot. Decent amount.
Center backs: Varane, Lindelof, Bailly, Maguire, Jones, Mengi - at least one too many, maybe two.
Center mid: McTominay, Matic, Fred, VdB - decent amount of numbers, although lack of quality.
Wingers and AM: Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood, Pogba, James, Mata, Hannibal, Shoretire, Elanga, Amad, Lingard - wow. Could sell 2 or 3 without needing to replace anyone. Twelve players who cover three positions must be some kind of record.
Center forward: Cavani, Martial - an okay number considering Greenwood plays there too.

32 first-team players.

I would sell without hesitating, or just give away, Jones, Grant Bailly, Lingard, and James. 27 players are more than enough.

 

[Bestietom]

Sell Bailly, Martial, Matic, and Lingard and bring in both Camavinga and Tchouameni, and we are right.

 

[Mickson]

Sell Bailly, Martial, Matic, and Lingard and bring in both Camavinga and Tchouameni, and we are right.

I completely agree. Both James and Lingard, also Bailly, are sellable. Just lower your price a little on Lingard and get it done. It's frankly ridiculous that Ole plans to keep hold of thirteen (!) potential wingers/AM this season: Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Amad, Elanga, Mata, James, Martial, Lingard, Hannibal, Shoretire, Pogba. Bring in Tchouameni at least (I'm unsure of Camavinga bot wouldn't mind).

 

[#07]

ffs looks we're gonna see more of the walking wardrobe Matic this season.

Still cant believe we gave him a new deal until 2023 last summer. Mad.

 

[Bestietom]

I completely agree. Both James and Lingard, also Bailly, are sellable. Just lower your price a little on Lingard and get it done. It's frankly ridiculous that Ole plans to keep hold of thirteen (!) potential wingers/AM this season: Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Amad, Elanga, Mata, James, Martial, Lingard, Hannibal, Shoretire, Pogba. Bring in Tchouameni at least (I'm unsure of Camavinga bot wouldn't mind).

Exactly. If PSG come in for Pogba on last day we are arsed.

 

[Mr.Plow]

We haven't had a proper right winger since when? Depay and Di Maria?

It took years to fill such an obvious hole. God knows how long we'll be waiting for the midfield to be addressed.

 

[MUFCAFC]

€20m for Moriba seems like a steal too, should be getting him and Camavinga over the line regardless of whether more sales come or not.

 

[Alex99]

So our squad as it stands, you slandered me for saying United's squad is too big. Here it is:

Keepers: Grant, De Gea, Henderson, Heaton. Four goalkeepers. One too many. Also highest wage bill in the world in this position.
Fullbacks: Shaw, Telles, AWB, Dalot. Decent amount.
Center backs: Varane, Lindelof, Bailly, Maguire, Jones, Mengi - at least one too many, maybe two.
Center mid: McTominay, Matic, Fred, VdB - decent amount of numbers, although lack of quality.
Wingers and AM: Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood, Pogba, James, Mata, Hannibal, Shoretire, Elanga, Amad, Lingard - wow. Could sell 2 or 3 without needing to replace anyone. Twelve players who cover three positions must be some kind of record.
Center forward: Cavani, Martial - an okay number considering Greenwood plays there too.

32 first-team players.

I would sell without hesitating, or just give away, Jones, Grant Bailly, Lingard, and James. 27 players are more than enough.

Slandered? Get a fecking grip.

Concluding our squad has 32 players and crying about how it should be around 27 players after including Mengi, Hannibal, Elanga, Amad and Shoretire in the numbers is something else.

Take out the 5 children you've just included and have a look at how many players you're left with.

 

[Mickson]

Slandered? Get a fecking grip.

Concluding our squad has 32 players and crying about how it should be around 27 players after including Mengi, Hannibal, Elanga, Amad and Shoretire in the numbers is something else.

Take out the 5 children you've just included and have a look at how many players you're left with.

In what world isn't Amad a first-team player? Bought for £42M. Get a grip. All those others are first-teamers too.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Our owners only care about getting CL money, which means the target is, and forever will be, top 4

We’re not like City & Chelsea. We won’t go all in to try to compete on all fronts. Our goal is to finish in the top 4.