This unfortunately
Are we a CDM short of being an elite team?
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
We are a manager short of doing anything.
We are a coach and a DM short of anything.
I'm curious as to how a DM will fix our inability to create chances or even pass as a cohesive unit, unless we've managed to clone Bechenbauer.
It's an ever changing goalpost. Once we get a DM, it'll be Wan-Bissaka - need an attacking RB. Once we get one of them, it'll be De Gea - can't play attacking football without a QB of a goalkeeper. Once we get one of them, it'll be something else.
Of course it is. Sure only a few days ago people were saying we needed a striker line Kane to challenge. Next day we get Ronaldo and apparently that's still not enough.
CDM and a new coaching staff that isn't full of beta males.
Said it yesterday, we will not win anything without a world class CDM
With Pogba and Fred in the middle we are doomed.
With Pogba and Fred in the middle we are doomed.
I disagree.
If we get a DM then we can look at coaching or managing failings.
However it can take a season for new signings to bed in. That would need to be taken into account.
That would be perfect.
It doesn't take Chelsea and City a whole season for "new signings to bed in". We are way too forgiving. I love Ole, he is a legend, he cleaned the club in big way, but I am running out of excuses for his disastrous choices for the lineups.
No, it is not.
This BS with 4-2-4 needs to stop really. Not saying we don't have issues with passing lanes. But, the 2 CMs having poor game or could have done much better does not make our formation 4 - 2- 4.
Wow, stretching it as far as it goes...
Need a midfielder and a complete season for new signings to bed in before we can actually look at a coaching staff that has been here for 3 years and has spent 500M seems only fair...
TBF to those types of posts, the debates have mostly been about positions the club themselves were targeting. We have needed, and brought in, a number of additions over the last few windows - and we've slowly but surely been getting them and making a good effort doing so.
The recruitment deserves credit for the last few windows but its, understandably, been a slow rebuild with more always needing to be added in the next window, etc, and it's those areas, and potential targets, that then get discussed.
Going into this summer, we still 'needed' a CB, CM, RW, #9, alternative RB to battle with AWB. It was hugely unlikely that all would be added this window, and we've done really well to address 3 of the areas by bringing in such proven quality. But those other two positions are now the areas 'needing' addressing. Probably next year now. But people are still discussing them while the windows open as, if there is another incoming, it'll be one of those two positions. I don't see the problem in posters acknowledging, and discussing, the areas the club are clearly aiming at improving this summer or next.
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Exactly mate.
I agree that we have issues with personnel in midfield but how we are set up is also an issue.
I predicted such a knee jerk response. But that isn't what I said. I said, that needed to be taken into account.
We are an elite manager and just a solid DM short of being an elite side.
I agree that a proper DM would strengthen our squad the most. But feck me, if Ole can't win a trophy with these players, maybe signings aren't what is holding us back.
Coaching staff needs to be hold accountable, it's been enough time and players. This is Lampard second season, do you think Cristiano will be happy with a top 4 challenge and "building for the future and setting up the bases"?
No way, it's a blessing and a curse for Ole, he either delivers or I think Cristiano will push for another manager.
Could be the best thing to happen to us. Often times, we are way too soft and/or sentimental
@Skills nailed it.
After we bring in this midfielder, the next thing will be, 'we're a RB away', then it'll be a 'we're a sweeper keeper away'.
It's never-ending.
It still amazes me to this day that our fan-base downplays what a manager can do with a team.
I think Ole has done a decent/good job thus far, but now is the time to show if he can lead us to titles. There is no excuse for not challenging this season.
If we somehow did bring in a midfielder, I'd want the title.
After we bring in this midfielder, the next thing will be, 'we're a RB away', then it'll be a 'we're a sweeper keeper away'.
It's never-ending.
It still amazes me to this day that our fan-base downplays what a manager can do with a team.
I think Ole has done a decent/good job thus far, but now is the time to show if he can lead us to titles. There is no excuse for not challenging this season.
If we somehow did bring in a midfielder, I'd want the title.
Yep.
It's a point I've made a few times but City won the league last season having to rely on Ilkay Gundogan being their most prolific goalscorer with a less-than-impressive 13 goals, which was nonetheless more than he had managed to score in his previous four PL seasons combined. In terms of goalscoring rates it would be like us having to rely on Scott McTominay suddenly firing us to a title. Yet even that lack of proper goalscorers isn't a fatal weakness to a title challenge if you're coached well enough.
Teams will always have weaknesses. Neither City nor Chelsea are perfect teams this year either, with their fans no doubt able to name several positions in which they "need" to strengthen. Hell, City are going into this season with the exact same problem as last year, having actively failed to sign both Kane and Ronaldo. Yet they are still expected to challenge for the title again, because that's what top managers do with imperfect teams.
Have we ever really fixed the midfield in the last decade..?
Exactly.
I can't even imagine what people would say if we had City's squad instead. There would be constant complaints how we're relying on Gundogan for another season to lead us in goals.
I don't know if it's because of the utter dross we've seen post-SAF or what, but this idea that you need a world class player in every position in order to contend for trophies is nonsensical.
We probably have the most world class players in the league too, but we're short of that mythical holding midfielder in order to compete.
Manager.
In the history of the prem, generally only proven experienced elite managers win it. Ole winning it would be like Leicester winning the prem when you consider his experience and who he's managed. It's crazy when you think about it....and even crazier when you look at his coaching staff too.
I make you right. It's amazing how Scott and Fred costs us so many games!!!! Yet the mythical CDM is going to bridge the gap of 2 teams that won CL finals and the team that's pretty much won the prem in the last 5 years. Whoever gets that CDM job will be the equivalent of getting the job after SAF, it's an impossible task to meet the fans bases expectations. Best wear his underpants over his trousers and have a big cape....
Could not agree more with this and other posts of yours here.
Watching Pogba today, I was like how does he play CM for France. So little movement and so little simple passing and circulation... Just amazingly pathetic. He can't play in a middle 2 for us. Just no.
Nothing we can do about Ole. Just get a decent midfielder. Really doesn't even need to be top class.
We have two functional CMS, I repeat 2, fecking 2. McFred. That's it. What's the point of having Ronaldo /Messi /Mbappe/ Haaland.... When you end up half the time or worse with Matic or Pogba in there?
I bet you if Pep was our coach he would buy a DM and play VdB and Bruno on either side.
Ronaldo has signed knowing Ole is the manager. So that scenario is unlikely. Even if it was, we can't have individual players dictating who the manager is. I don't want another manager merry go round, it isn't good for the club.
There are positives and negatives under Ole. Great man manager and the squad is so much better now than when he took over. The tactics and coaching do seem basic. I hope he improves this season.
We have progressed under him. Question is, can he take us to win a trophy. If not, he might only be a great stepping stone to a new top quality manager.
We are a football club and a business. Everybody in the top 4 are short of something. Ole finished 3rd, he built, he finished second he built. If I told everyone back at the end of the season we’d get a world class, striker, a potential world class winger who can play both wings and a world class proven centre back most of you would have been as happy as a pig in s##t. As much as yesterday was a poor performance, and it was, there is mitigating circumstances. Players not been at their peak fitness yet, McT being injured, Sancho feeling the pressure of his fee on his full debut, the awesome effort of Wolves. Let’s calm down a bit and see how the season shapes up. I’m thinking we are going to win the league. If we don’t and we get very close it’ll be a half decent season. The top 4 could all do it, it’s more competitive than it’s ever been.
The next 2 days will decide United’s season I think. There will be no title challenge without a midfielder coming in
Ridiculous if we fail to challenge with or without a midfielder coming in.
City won the title last season without a striker(Gundogan was their leading goal-scorer) and won in 17-18 and 18-19 without a 1st choice LB.
Exactly. I think a lot of us underestimate McTominnay too. He’s a great athlete who gets stuck in, reads the game well and is capable of pitching in with a goal or two. It might be against certain teams we need to use the McFred combo but if that’s how we need to play to win so be it. We will get a good DM but realistically it’ll be next season.
They still had players that could play there successfully (Aguero, Jesus, Gundogan, Torres) and the rest of the team is more complete which made their weaknesses not be as important.
Also the level of their competition was significantly lower with Liverpool having lots of injuries and Chelsea/United not being ready. This year it will be tougher
United really need a midfielder
Half agree. We will challenge for the title because we have Cristiano. However, it will be tough to get over the line unless we get someone to do Scott's job when Scott's unavailable. Mad to think the lynchpin of our midfield is McTominay.
Midfield is the most important area though.
We're two CM and maybe a RB away. That given Sancho would reproduce his form at Dortmund. Fred and McT simply have no place than backup in an elite squad.
Shoe-horning Pogba and Bruno is going to be a problem (Teams like Leedds can be an exception). I think we can have either bruno or pogba in the 3-midfield with proper No-6 and No-8 like Touchameni or Carmavinga + Neves or Saul behind Bruno or Pogba.
Keane was telling this for more than 2 years that we cant win anything with McFred midfield and i think he knows better than lot of us.
Keane was telling this for more than 2 years that we cant win anything with McFred midfield and i think he knows better than lot of us.
No. We are a major trophy challenge away from being an elite side. Elite sides have top players. , but they also back it up. If we plug a DM and end up outside top 4 and crash out of the group ste in cl . No one will look at us as an elite side