Are we a CDM short of being an elite team?

[sp_107]

It's gotta be 433 but Ole hardly plays the formation.

Bruno and Pogba should be the number 10 and 8 in the formation with one of Fred, McTominay or Matic playing thr Busquets role.

Obviously I'd rather we signed a good CDM over the 3 mentioned.

Rashford Ronaldo Sancho
Pogba Fernandes
Matic
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea

looks like you spent your weekend in an island and just came back to real world

the whole issue since Sunday night is how Pogba, Bruno can’t play with one DM like Fred or McT

 

[Adnan]

We've had a good window but it doesn't look like we'll get the midfielder most of us want. So if that does end up being the case, then I'm looking at Ole and the coaching staff to find internal solutions to balance the midfield from the below options already at the club.

Pogba
Fred
McTominay
Hannibal
Matic
VdB
Bruno

Bruno is currently playing as a second striker but could play as a #8, which may affect his output but it may mean we function better as a collective. Solskjaer has the opportunity to gain a lot of credit here.

 

[Beachryan]

Remember the season where Fergie had O'Shea and Giggs as a two in midfield for what must have been 20 odd games?

Ole's just learning from the master. Who needs a functioning central midfield when you have 5 really good players behind them, and 4 really good players ahead of them?

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Nothing you spoilt bastards, wait till next summer.

 

[peridigm]

Didn't Phil Jones have a spell at DM under SAF or was it Moyes or LVG. Been so long since he played anywhere I can't remember.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Didn't Phil Jones have a spell at DM under SAF or was it Moyes or LVG. Been so long since he played anywhere I can't remember.

Against Madrid. Did well too, but that was a long time and many injuries ago.
I'm not sure he'd be mobile enough now.

 

[Bondi77]

I have thought about Jones... He wasn't terrible in midfield but was not a first choice for the spot. Not sure if he'll be back before Scott is vut if so, he's not a bad shout, but he needs gametime outside of the PL first in my opinion. Cup games can't come fast enough.

His defending was good but he did not have a passing game back then and I would imagine that has not changed; I think Victor could be suited to it but I think in that position you have to be decisive and Victor struggles with that I think.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I hate the obsession about getting a new midfielder. The issue is with the tactics & training rather than just the individuals. A quality midfielder might improve us slightly through his individual quality but most of the issues will remain because the team just has a lot of flaws in terms of patterns of play & tactics

 

[BluesJr]

Remember the season where Fergie had O'Shea and Giggs as a two in midfield for what must have been 20 odd games?

Ole's just learning from the master. Who needs a functioning central midfield when you have 5 really good players behind them, and 4 really good players ahead of them?

We will have zero control against any competent team. It’s beyond frustrating that the club can’t see that if you control midfield you control the game, you can be dominant and you win trophies.

 

[Diabovermelho]

We have 8 midfielders, 5 of whom are capable of playing in the double pivot. He can't complain about depth. Also, Fred and Mctominay are rarely injured, so they'll be able to play most of the games.

The international break presents a nice oportunity for Ole, because both VDB and Fred won't travel, so they have a full week of training. Also, Ole said that there might be another behind-closed-doors match, where he can try Fred and VDB in the pivot. I'm almost sure VDB will start either against Newcastle or against Young Boys in that position.

Pogba will play plenty of games there as well, especially against low blocks, at Old Trafford. In those games he can play with either Scott or Fred, but not Matic because he doesn't have the legs to cover for Paul anymore.

I also think that a combination of Fred-Matic are terrible, because Matic drops too deep and Fred can't pass the ball.

So, the possible combinations are: McFred, Fred-VDB, Scott-VDB, Matic-VDB, Scott-Matic, Scott-Pogba, Fred-Pogba.

 

[Bondi77]

We've had a good window but it doesn't look like we'll get the midfielder most of us want. So if that does end up being the case, then I'm looking at Ole and the coaching staff to find internal solutions to balance the midfield from the below options already at the club.

Pogba
Fred
McTominay
Hannibal
Matic
VdB
Bruno

Bruno is currently playing as a second striker but could play as #8, which may affect his output but it may mean we function better as a collective. Solskjaer has the opportunity to gain a lot of credit here.

I think there is more than enough to work with there and I assume the primary role of Carrick should be to work with the midfielders so it is about time he started getting through to the group.

 

[Bastian]

I hate the obsession about getting a new midfielder. The issue is with the tactics & training rather than just the individuals. A quality midfielder might improve us slightly through his individual quality but most of the issues will remain because the team just has a lot of flaws in terms of patterns of play & tactics

It's both.

We've had a good window but it doesn't look like we'll get the midfielder most of us want. So if that does end up being the case, then I'm looking at Ole and the coaching staff to find internal solutions to balance the midfield from the below options already at the club.

Pogba
Fred
McTominay
Hannibal
Matic
VdB
Bruno

Bruno is currently playing as a second striker but could play as a #8, which may affect his output but it may mean we function better as a collective. Solskjaer has the opportunity to gain a lot of credit here.

Absolutely. And he will have to really.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

looks like you spent your weekend in an island and just came back to real world

the whole issue since Sunday night is how Pogba, Bruno can’t play with one DM like Fred or McT

Except Matic is a DM and Fred and McT are not.

The person you quoted is living in the clouds saying any of the three can do the "Busquets role", but Matic is the only one in the squad that can actually play as the DM in a three. We've never played Matic-Pogba-Fernandes in that system as a proper 4-3-3.

Might be worth a shot at this point, really.

 

[Deery]

We have 8 midfielders, 5 of whom are capable of playing in the double pivot. He can't complain about depth. Also, Fred and Mctominay are rarely injured, so they'll be able to play most of the games.

The international break presents a nice oportunity for Ole, because both VDB and Fred won't travel, so they have a full week of training. Also, Ole said that there might be another behind-closed-doors match, where he can try Fred and VDB in the pivot. I'm almost sure VDB will start either against Newcastle or against Young Boys in that position.

Pogba will play plenty of games there as well, especially against low blocks, at Old Trafford. In those games he can play with either Scott or Fred, but not Matic because he doesn't have the legs to cover for Paul anymore.

I also think that a combination of Fred-Matic are terrible, because Matic drops too deep and Fred can't pass the ball.

So, the possible combinations are: McFred, Fred-VDB, Scott-VDB, Matic-VDB, Scott-Matic, Scott-Pogba, Fred-Pogba.

The problem is Matic and Donny are all but useless and one injury to Fred or McTominay like we’re seeing now can ring havoc in the midfield. Matic never should have got a new contract and been replaced, it’s another case of bad planning and foresight.

 

[choccy77]

Ole is gonna sit on the bench and leave two subs on the bench.

 

[Devil may care]

There's nothing he can do, Pogba in a 2 is an accident waiting to happen, VdB might as well be invisible and McFred are mediocre, Matic isn't worth mentioning as he's legless. The idea of trying 3 at the back isn't really viable as 2 from Mason, Rashford and Sancho will be on the bench.

 

[smi11ie]

I think Sancho and Bruno should drop deeper. Shaw can go on the overlap occasionally. Greenwood should stay high because AWB is not great at attacking. I know Fred gets alot of stick but I really like him.

Midfield lacks a bit of leadership for me. Would like Utd to get a defensive minded general. Someone vocal who likes to organise those around him.

I am sure Ronaldo will point out the flaws with the team when he arrives.

 

[The United]

He will get a no 6 next season when Pogba is gone. I think that's how he will fix it.

For this season, only god knows.

 

[Hal9000]

Unless we go crazy and spend loads on rice, which half of us don't want... Who is a realistic target at the price point we need??

 

[The United]

Play Jones or Lindelof as DM if we are pretty desperate!

 

[MasterCode]

There's nothing he can do, Pogba in a 2 is an accident waiting to happen, VdB might as well be invisible and McFred are mediocre, Matic isn't worth mentioning as he's legless. The idea of trying 3 at the back isn't really viable as 2 from Mason, Rashford and Sancho will be on the bench.

Funny this Pogba agenda narrative because he plays in a 2 for France with the exact same CB behind him - and during the Euros was one of the players of the tournament.

Gary Neville and Souness has some of our fanbase hooked.

Have you thought maybe the problem might be his pivot partner? Or let me guess he's just a magically different player for France.

Some truly DUMB POVs in our fanbase.

 

[Devil may care]

Funny this Pogba agenda narrative because he plays in a 2 for France with the exact same CB behind him - and during the Euros was one of the players of the tournament.

Gary Neville and Souness has some of our fanbase hooked.

Have you thought maybe the problem might be his pivot partner? Or let me guess he's just a magically different player for France.

Some truly DUMB POVs in our fanbase.

Yours being at the forefront of dumb, I guess you didn’t notice the 3rd CM in the French teams, Pogba is a liability defensively and the situation is made worse by Fred who's like a dog chasing a car, his pivot partners are crap, never said they weren't, but he's not great there either, he's best in that left position as a floating playmaker, when we play him there he's world class, in a midfield 2, especially in the fast paced PL, he's a problem, I don't listen to Souness or Neville so I don't know or care what they think, don't know why any United fan would lusten to Souness in particular, but I guess you do.

 

[Dominos]

Funny this Pogba agenda narrative because he plays in a 2 for France with the exact same CB behind him - and during the Euros was one of the players of the tournament.

Gary Neville and Souness has some of our fanbase hooked.

Have you thought maybe the problem might be his pivot partner? Or let me guess he's just a magically different player for France.

Some truly DUMB POVs in our fanbase.

Did he not start alongside Kanta and Rabiot for France?

Anyway, we've been watching for him for 5 years for United so that holds far more weight than what he does in a few games for France every couple of years.

When played in a deep midfield role he's simply going to lose the ball in dangerous areas too often (trying to dribble when he shouldn't, failing to deal with opposition pressing, dawdling on the ball too long, sloppy touches and short passing), and his defensive work is not effective enough. It's not that he can't play well there, it's that he doesn't do it consistently and his weaknesses will always be exposed eventually. You're never going to get the best out of his talents in that role anyway even if he plays it well, he should be scoring and assisting goals and he needs to be higher up the pitch to effect games the way he can.

 

[croadyman]

Let Saul go to Chelsea on a loan with option to buy basis

 

[Widow]

Funny this Pogba agenda narrative because he plays in a 2 for France with the exact same CB behind him - and during the Euros was one of the players of the tournament.

Gary Neville and Souness has some of our fanbase hooked.

Have you thought maybe the problem might be his pivot partner? Or let me guess he's just a magically different player for France.

Some truly DUMB POVs in our fanbase.

I'd point out why you're wrong but it's already been done.

 

[Widow]

Let Saul go to Chelsea on a loan with option to buy basis

I don't think he would have been the answer, he's more of a box to box player, we've got enough of those.

 

[RedSky]

If we arent signing a first teamer then at least go for a punt ala James. Someone inexpensive with a chance of adding value when we replace with better players. We're so incredibly short on numbers for our midfield.

 

[Jacky Quacky]

Fred-Mctominay is basically the only solution. Maybe a 433 and drop Bruno deeper but let’s be real that ain’t happening

 

[Nicoseth]

I think at this point Ole clearly sees McFred as a solid, if not very creative midfield unit. I am a massive Ole fan so I trust him to get this right because there's no doubt the money was there for a midfielder and he chose not to get one.

 

[gorky_utd]

I think at this point Ole clearly sees McFred as a solid, if not very creative midfield unit. I am a massive Ole fan so I trust him to get this right because there's no doubt the money was there for a midfielder and he chose not to get one.

Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe Ole want a proper big name like Ndidi, Rice etc but they are too costly atm. There were news about Goretzka so the club clearly wants reinforcement in that position.

 

[MasterCode]

Yours being at the forefront of dumb, I guess you didn’t notice the 3rd CM in the French teams, Pogba is a liability defensively and the situation is made worse by Fred who's like a dog chasing a car, his pivot partners are crap, never said they weren't, but he's not great there either, he's best in that left position as a floating playmaker, when we play him there he's world class, in a midfield 2, especially in the fast paced PL, he's a problem, I don't listen to Souness or Neville so I don't know or care what they think, don't know why any United fan would lusten to Souness in particular, but I guess you do.

Pretty much throughout his entire time with the French squad he has played in a double pivot with Kante. In the last two years Deschamps has also added 3 at the back in their repertoire and packed the midfield.

However they play a double pivot AND a packed midfield it's not just one. Proving that Pogba can play in BOTH. So the narrative he can't play in a double pivot is a FOOLS one. He won a World Cup in one.

And to your Rabiot comment, In the last Euros against Portugal it was a DOUBLE PIVOT. The previous Euros before the last DOUBLE PIVOT, Nations League he was playing in a DOUBLE PIVOT, Euro qualifiers guess what… BINGO, DOUBLE PIVOT. All playing against different nations that have different playing styles, different tempos. All showing he's more than capable of doing it. And win trophies while doing it.

They went with a midfield 3 in 2 of their 4 matches the other two were a double pivot.

So the foolish sentiment he can't is just stupid, the issue is his partner doesn't have the discipline like I said.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If he isn't signing someone I hope he gives Mjebri chances. But considering VDB isn't getting any, that seems unlikely. The holy trinity of Fred, Mctominay and Matic it is, then.

 

[Nicoseth]

Or maybe he doesn't. Maybe Ole want a proper big name like Ndidi, Rice etc but they are too costly atm. There were news about Goretzka so the club clearly wants reinforcement in that position.

I see what you're saying, but he clearly saw Sancho as more urgent or important otherwise that money would have got him one of the players you mentioned.

 

[gorky_utd]

I see what you're saying, but he clearly saw Sancho as more urgent or important otherwise that money would have got him one of the players you mentioned.

Probably because good young attackers are very difficult to find. Vdb, Amad, Pelistri combined have cost around 60-70m and are not contributing anything. That is why I feel the board is reluctant to purchase Neves or Saul. We have to hope that 1 of Fred or Mctominay does the job with Pogba in midfield.

 

[hmchan]

Pretty much throughout his entire time with the French squad he has played in a double pivot with Kante. In the last two years Deschamps has also added 3 at the back in their repertoire and packed the midfield.

However they play a double pivot AND a packed midfield it's not just one. Proving that Pogba can play in BOTH. So the narrative he can't play in a double pivot is a FOOLS one. He won a World Cup in one.

And to your Rabiot comment, In the last Euros against Portugal it was a DOUBLE PIVOT. The previous Euros before the last DOUBLE PIVOT, Nations League he was playing in a DOUBLE PIVOT, Euro qualifiers guess what… BINGO, DOUBLE PIVOT. All playing against different nations that have different playing styles, different tempos. All showing he's more than capable of doing it. And win trophies while doing it.

They went with a midfield 3 in 2 of their 4 matches the other two were a double pivot.

So the foolish sentiment he can't is just stupid, the issue is his partner doesn't have the discipline like I said.

We also had the two best defensive records post-Fergie in 16/17 and 17/18, conceding only 29 and 28 goals respectively with Pogba in a double pivot.

As for the OP, I think Ole has to learn to cope with the options we have. Fred and McTominay are surely nowhere near top class, but they aren't too bad either. When City have no striker and they can't get Kane, Pep still makes good use of Torres and it works out just fine.

 

[RedCurry]

He will have to play players on their merit based on their best positions. Which means that in most games we have to choose between Bruno and Pogba for the #10 role. McTominay probably starts most games for us but Fred and VDB to challenge him in his role. Promote Hannibal and play him ahead of the experienced players possibly. Bring Scholes out of retirement.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Didn't Phil Jones have a spell at DM under SAF or was it Moyes or LVG. Been so long since he played anywhere I can't remember.

It wasn't a spell per se, more like Fergie liked him and would try to get him involved, so he would play all over the place during those years, RB, CB, DM, the lot. Him being deployed at DM was a rarity though and only happened when there were someone that was needed to be marked, specifically. I can only recall one match at Anfield in his first season and the Madrid game.

 

[Listar]

Pretty much throughout his entire time with the French squad he has played in a double pivot with Kante. In the last two years Deschamps has also added 3 at the back in their repertoire and packed the midfield.

However they play a double pivot AND a packed midfield it's not just one. Proving that Pogba can play in BOTH. So the narrative he can't play in a double pivot is a FOOLS one. He won a World Cup in one.

And to your Rabiot comment, In the last Euros against Portugal it was a DOUBLE PIVOT. The previous Euros before the last DOUBLE PIVOT, Nations League he was playing in a DOUBLE PIVOT, Euro qualifiers guess what… BINGO, DOUBLE PIVOT. All playing against different nations that have different playing styles, different tempos. All showing he's more than capable of doing it. And win trophies while doing it.

They went with a midfield 3 in 2 of their 4 matches the other two were a double pivot.

So the foolish sentiment he can't is just stupid, the issue is his partner doesn't have the discipline like I said.

with Kante. Thats what everyone's saying no? We need a proper DM like Kante to play double pivot with Pogba. Maybe even we can get away with Rice.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

We've played Fred Pogba Mctominay VdB and Matic in the double pivot but in reality only the Fred and Mctominay double pivot has worked on a consistent basis but they are not good enough. How many times do we need to see Fred and Pogba or Pogba and Mctominay or Matic and anybody to be reminded that the McFred midfield is the only one that works consistently. And even at that both Mctominay and Fred should be squad players

I fail to believe that we can't get a cheap punt or loan deal that is an upgrade on Mctominay or Fred or at the very least Matic. Even if we can't or dont want to spend money on a midfielder that improves our starting 11 why can't we improve our depth. The fact that Matic still gets game time shows our depth for the double pivot is bad. I'm sure there are cheap options or loan deals that are better than him and will make us stronger in depth than when it's Matic warming the bench

 

[SinNombre]

I don't think he would have been the answer, he's more of a box to box player, we've got enough of those.

He would be a great part of the rotation with Fred and McTominay.

Play 2/3 from that trio as a double pivot until someone clearly better shows up on the market.