Great football today. Deserves a result.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
Well the end result was them winning the league at a canter & us finishing miles behind them, so what did it achieve? I would rather they beat us 9-0 & us win the league.
Sure, and after taking the lead so early we were always going to sit back and let them pepper the goal from range.
Still wouldn't say we dominated the game though, or even tried to. But we were clearly well worth our victory.
Wouldn't we all, but we're talking about a match in isolation. If we're gonna keep zooming out further and further then I'm sure they'd rather have our 20 titles and 3 CLs.
We dominated the game I'd say, not in terms of possession, but we kept them quiet and looked like scoring with every attack. There was a 15 minute spell during the first half that we weren't comfortably on top, and that's pretty much it.
When your #9 does not run, does not stretch defenses and does not hold up the ball it is very hard to do much of anything
I guess its Moyes > Solskjaer. Re-sign Moyes?
Out of yet another chance of a trophy because we came out flat. Like we played fine (no end product but whatever) for the whole game after we conceded. I don't understand how a coaching staff can allow a team to come out of the gates so unprepared.
Mata and Martial never again please, that is coaching as well.
What game were you watching ?
West Ham had the better chances. They should have scored two more. Noble should have scored and Yamalenko as well
And this is why it pays to read properly when someone's quoting a post...
You might want to check the conversation first mate, before you dive in - I was referring to away at City last season, completely unrelated to tonight.
Thought it was a good game. You can we why Martial is on the way out, he plays a different sport that Ronaldo and Cavani do
He won’t get many more chances now. He needs to leave to resurrect his career. Just not in it at all.
Unfortunately when your coaching style relays on individuals to produce moments of brilliance and you take a majority of those out of the team this is what happens!
What's my agenda? Why does every disagreement has to involve some implied ulterior motive from another poster? No way that was our team's best performance away. Perhaps our best result. Two completely different things. Maybe you're the one remembering things differently if you thought that we had double their expected goals.
I could see that happeningThat's not even based on memory, it's based on the xG reported by understat, which was corroborated by another poster who replied to you. So maybe there isn't an agenda behind your pretending the stats aren't the stats, but either way you're the one remembering things differently.
I think if we had Ronaldo/Cavani on instead of Martial it would have been a different result. They at least move and make space. Martial just wants the ball to drop in his lap
And even if it drops in his lap he can't hold it or play it forward. He's utterly useless.
The one position where I thought Ole can improve players is the #9, Martial tonight was giving us he’s impression of a lamp post. The guy is gone on strike and refusing to move.
Mata was decent
Really?? What about it was good? We looked like we didn't even care to win that game. I'll give that we weren't the shittiest team in the whole word, but good? Is good better then okay'ish?
Hmm, I wonder if the manager could do something about that. Maybe talk to him, or don't start him, or maybe sub him, or sell him? Or just keep playing him and hope that something magically happens. Ole has chosen the latter.
Just a good game to watch. I accepted the standard wasn’t going to be swashbuckling since we had Mata and Martial up top but I thought Sancho carried the ball (and attack) well and Lindelof had a good showing.
Maybe I’m in a minority but it was a pressure free game for me to watch. Greenwood showed his class which was also encouraging
Martial moved for a few games after ole came in. Now he's stopped and looks like he can't be bothered.
Yeah agreed. He let the defenders have an easy game by basically standing and wanting the ball to feet all the time.
Not gonna read to much into this one game, particularly as I couldn't give a shite about the carabao cup really.
On a general point though I would note that last season in the PL only one team overperformed their xG by more than us, while we were ranked fifth for npxG and eight for npxG/shot. And already this season (albeit in a tiny sample size) we're the team who has most overperformed their xG, third for npxG and ninth for npxG/shot, despite probably having had (on paper) easier fixtures thus far than our three main rivals.
Which (to my mind) suggests we're overly reliant on high quality players finishing relatively low xG chances? And I would say today's game followed that pattern too, except without the finishing turning up. And logic would suggest our inconsistency would diminish quite a bit if we were consistently creating a higher standard of chance.
On a general point though I would note that last season in the PL only one team overperformed their xG by more than us, while we were ranked fifth for npxG and eight for npxG/shot. And already this season (albeit in a tiny sample size) we're the team who has most overperformed their xG, third for npxG and ninth for npxG/shot, despite probably having had (on paper) easier fixtures thus far than our three main rivals.
Which (to my mind) suggests we're overly reliant on high quality players finishing relatively low xG chances? And I would say today's game followed that pattern too, except without the finishing turning up. And logic would suggest our inconsistency would diminish quite a bit if we were consistently creating a higher standard of chance.
Our second string teams don't play as a unit or with the same identity as the Liverpool second side who is full of under 23's and Klopps philosophy.We are so disjointed with players shoe horned into positions where they are not used to playing.
This goes back to our management limitations and vision.
I really don't see us winning any silverware with Oles management capabilities.
So frustrating that we are a missing a trick with this squad.
This goes back to our management limitations and vision.
I really don't see us winning any silverware with Oles management capabilities.
So frustrating that we are a missing a trick with this squad.
Exactly. I think, it is mentionworthy to point out, that Liverpool for all their woes last season managed to be 2nd in terms of xg behind ManCity. Overperforming xG should somehow be expected on the lowest level (individual game) because our attacking personal is way above average and therefor should score more than average. But todays game showed what many of us noted - as soon as the very good individuals aren't on the pitch, our output turns completely to zero.
Creativity was a big problem for us last season and it has seemed like a bit of an issue this season too (though I do think it has been slightly better this season due to Pogba and Bruno creating some decent chances, mostly for Ronaldo. There hasn't been any creativity from anyone else besides Shaw though so it's still probably a valid point). Not sure if this is necesarilly down to the coaching though or if it's down to the very clear lack of quality in our double pivot (and when we need to use our squad players of course).
Yeah he was okay, he's just so slow man. It's almost depressing. Sancho tried playing a quick pass back to him and everyone in the world except Mata would have gotten to the ball
This. No matter what we say about our second-string players, this result is a massive indictment towards the people in charge of coaching drills for our team. There is no way the team can be this disjointed after this many years under the same coaching staff.
That’s interesting. But surely the finishers we have in the side will see us outperforming xG compared to sides with inferior attacking options ?
The drop in quality is because we don't have any idea how to create chances except for relying on individual brilliance.
When Bruno or Pogba is having a day off, that's it.
When Bruno or Pogba is having a day off, that's it.
No triangels for close range passing to many touches on the ball. Midfield not progressing the ball between the lines. Individuals just waiting to shoot trying to score screamers and no sharpness infront of goal and so much more thats the problem.
Ole talking tonight about our slow start again and how they must address it.
Apart from his first few months as manager most of our games start slow by default but he is going to address it now apparently.
Are we now going to see this high intensity hard pressing football he talked about 2 1/2 years ago?
Apart from his first few months as manager most of our games start slow by default but he is going to address it now apparently.
Are we now going to see this high intensity hard pressing football he talked about 2 1/2 years ago?
Pretty embarrassing actually. We have ridiculous attacking talent in depth and can't score against a second string west ham.
Yes we played alright but what was the plan today? I saw a bit of a high line but not much pressing even though west ham seemed susceptible.
Why didn't Bruno amd Greenwood come on earlier? I guess Ole didn't fancy this competition even though we have too many attacking players that need games.
Yes we played alright but what was the plan today? I saw a bit of a high line but not much pressing even though west ham seemed susceptible.
Why didn't Bruno amd Greenwood come on earlier? I guess Ole didn't fancy this competition even though we have too many attacking players that need games.
Yep, in itself it's a good thing that our attackers have the quality to do that. You certainly want them overperforming rather than underperforming.
The problem is more a comparative one. So for example Man City were the next team behind us in terms of overperformance on +8.7 to our +9.8, so about 1 goal's difference. But they were also top of the league in terms of xG with 19 more than us, just as Liverpool had about 18 more and Chelsea 10 more. So we needed our finishers to overperform in order to keep pace with our rivals, whereas all their finishers had to do is roughly match ours to end up with (in some cases a lot) more goals. Which pits our players in a bit of an uphill battle to match them for goals.
When you consider the fact that we lagged behind Chelsea and City in terms of the amount of xG we were conceding last season as well (42.2 to City's 31.4 and Chelsea's 32.8) then you'd have to think that in a scenario where we win the league we would definitely see either absolutely stupendous levels of overperformance or improved underlying stats.
Which is why if we were to see those underlying stats start improving then we could start feeling a lot more confident. And I wouldn't have any doubts about our coaching at that point either.
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I see. But surely our PL xG is quite a bit higher this season so far comparatively ? In fact I would be more worried about our opponents’ xG so far this season as we have been far too open for my liking.
As it stands we're 6th for xG (behind Liverpool, City, West Ham, Everton and Chelsea) and 5th for xG conceded (behind City, Brentford, Villa and Liverpool).
But tbf that's from very few fixtures so I wouldn't put much weight on it yet. It's not a coincidence that the likes of West Ham, Everton and Brentford are showing up when they had some of the easiest fixtures so far. We'll see how we're doing in a couple of months.