mu4c_20le
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- Joined
- Jul 7, 2013
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Combat apathy with words? Another opinion without a solution.That's the crux of it.
Combat apathy with words? Another opinion without a solution.That's the crux of it.
Indeed. Will anyone who doesn't have the complete solution to racism, please pipe down.Combat apathy with words? Another opinion without a solution.
Not sure about that. Some of his past decisions for himself have ended up being very costly to others...For himself, yeah
Both gestures create awareness, if that's the purpose. Is there any other League that do the kneeing?No. I meant the "No room for racism" badge.
If he is calling the act degrading then yes he is ignorant. And if he thinks the point of the kneeling was to end racism he is ignorant.I don't think he is ignorant of the issues at hand. I think he is aware that from his perspective the issues at hand will be unaffected by taking a knee and that it is essentially an effort to "do the least" whilst giving themselves (footballers and footballing bodies) a big pat on the back. The phrase "conversations do not equal closed sales." Its like being at work thinking you are doing a lot but you are just a busy fool. Essentially doing a whole lotta nothing. I believe this is what he thinks.
No.Combat apathy with words? Another opinion without a solution.
What do their bank balances have to do with the impact their racial abuse they receive has? You saying can’t be ‘oppressed’ because they’re rich? Being called a monkey on twitter fine because of their pay packet?Opressed multi millionaire teammates. Too many people really only see the world in black and white, no other nuances allowed.
I've always rated him as a player. As a bloke.. let's not go there.Most shocking thing about this for me is to learn that he still starts matches.
Good. The fact he refers to himself as "Chilly" annoys me for some reason.He's been unexpectedly brilliant since the start of the season. Kept Chilwell totally out of the starting 11.
The real question is, do his black teammates care that much about how he chooses to show his fight against racism as you think they should? Judging by our current games, show of togetherness in celebrations/against adversity, and the fact that he stopped kneeling since the start of the season.... I'd say probably not? But non of us really know nor would have cared much until he was asked about it recently so a good portion of our current society can find something to moan about. His previous records don't help his case of course but he's still his own person and can choose to support a course or not in his own way. That's what Colin Kaepernick did isn't it?His choice ultimately but I wonder how the black players feel about it? He's not the barometer of how effective it is as it doesn't impact on him anyway. What did he think was gonna happen, taking the knee for a season was gonna eradicate it from football immediately?
We solved racism in the USA years ago. And all we had to was... hang on, I have it my notes here somewhere. OK, let me get back to you on this.Indeed. Will anyone who doesn't have the complete solution to racism, please pipe down.
In all seriousness, I've been wondering this for a while since I don't really look at instagram/twitter. Do US athletes can spammed with racist comments/emojis as often as football players do? I honestly don't know. I don't know if media/players just ignore it here or what. Genuinely curious if it happens as often.We solved racism in the USA years ago. And all we had to was... hang on, I have it my notes here somewhere. OK, let me get back to you on this.
It would be laughable and silly... unless you happened to be a person who has suffered racist abuse and everyone around you has shown indifference. It is a gesture that reinforces the belief that racism is prevalent and needs to be stopped. People want to return to their old ways of thinking; taking the knee reminds everyone who sees it that the job is from from done.The knee has just become a method for elites to show their "superiority" and "morality" over common man. Imagine taking a knee at your office everyday, it would be laughable, stupidity and silly.
I get understand the hype behind the knee, but the diminishing returns has been set. It doesn't bring any benefits today. And instead of actually doing direct work to resolve racism, these elites have taken the easy way out, with the knee...
Yeah, but seriously - how is pointing at a badge better/more impactful than taking the knee? The novelty of it? Seems absurd to me.It's true. Do something else that isn't tried.
How's taking a knee going to make a difference if someone suffered racist abuse? If it's about showing solidarity then why pointing to a ''Say No To Racism" badge is any worse than dropping to your knees? Who decides what's appropriate in this case and what isn't?It would be laughable and silly... unless you happened to be a person who has suffered racist abuse and everyone around you has shown indifference. It is a gesture that reinforces the belief that racism is prevalent and needs to be stopped. People want to return to their old ways of thinking; taking the knee reminds everyone who sees it that the job is from from done.
Yeah it's cheap, but he's a Caucasian and a footballer. He doesn't know what to do, but he probably feels like it's dumb. I am from the states, and it lost its value here. Kaep did what he did, and it worked over here. IDK how long he planned to do it, but it couldn't have been this long.Yeah, but seriously - how is pointing at a badge better/more impactful than taking the knee? The novelty of it? Seems absurd to me.
If you feel the gesture has become - well - just a gesture, surely replacing it with another gesture just adds to the pointlessness of the thing.
ETA If you meant "try something other than a(nother) gesture", ignore my reply.
[Irrelevant point] is spanish, probably a celt.Yeah it's cheap, but he's a Caucasian and a footballer. He doesn't know what to do, but he probably feels like it's dumb. I am from the states, and it lost its value here. Kaep did what he did, and it worked over here. IDK how long he planned to do it, but it couldn't have been this long.
Then adjust from there.[Irrelevant point] is spanish, probably a celt.
America is the only place where they call Caucasian whoever have indo european ancestries.
Well depends really. If you compare it to football of the 60s 70s 80s I’d say we’ve moved along but we need to move further. I was reading Clough Gold recently and some of the stories told by black players who played for Clough back then were simply gobsmacking. Whole stands throwing fruit and shouting the worst things. The shit those lads dealt with. It’s not perfect but hopefully we’re moving in the right direction.The knee has become an empty gesture. Football, society, the general public have done nothing to advance racial equality.
utoyWell depends really. If you compare it to football of the 60s 70s 80s I’d say we’ve moved along but we need to move further. I was reading Clough Gold recently and some of the stories told by black players who played for Clough back then were simply gobsmacking. Whole stands throwing fruit and shouting the worst things. The shit those lads dealt with. It’s not perfect but hopefully we’re moving in the right direction.
Yeah. sorry, should have Clarified, About the general environment. If you get a chance to read it it’s really good. Just stories from people who played and worked with Clough. Some of them talk about how things were in those days.utoy
About Clough or just the general environment?
I went to some matches in those days. Never in the stands, always the seats. As an Asian I would never have dared TBH, the racist abuse was unreal.Yeah. sorry, should have Clarified, About the general environment. If you get a chance to read it it’s really good. Just stories from people who played and worked with Clough. Some of them talk about how things were in those days.
Same, I remember those days well. It was on another level.I went to some matches in those days. Never in the stands, always the seats. As an Asian I would never have dared TBH, the racist abuse was unreal.
The shame as well was that some black players were so compromised by it, they tried to laugh it off or rationalise it by saying things like, " they're abusing their black players not ours!" So that made it acceptableSame, I remember those days well. It was on another level.
Never mind the way he stands, what about taking the knee?i have no issue with his stance.