We are an awfully coached team

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You can definitely press with him, it's not ideal but it isn't like he's holding back Manchester United for being a modern football team.

It's a shame as the team looks good on paper, at least better than the last iterations of recent years, but seems a waste under the current manager. I could be wrong as the team can definitely play better and it might actually do it, regardless of the manager, as the season goes on and the players get used to each other .

I don't think a team is unable to press with Ronaldo.

I just don't think it'd be at a top level comparable with other top teams.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

We've never pressed well even without Ronaldo. But we're not going to be able to press well with Ronaldo in the squad. You can't press well with him in the XI.

Looking at some of the teams in Europe with the highest rate of final third pressing shows quite a few of them have one 'spare' attacker who doesn't contribute much to the press.

PSG and Monaco top the Ligue 1 stats this season, yet Neymar and Ben Yedder do far less than their share. PSG are getting a lot of their final third pressing from Ander Herrera and Hakimi. A big chunk of the best pressing teams seem to get a lot of success from aggressive full-backs and midfielders. We saw Chelsea really feck us up last season by exploting this to perfection.

Problem for us is, while you don't expect a 36 year old Ronaldo to be a pressing machine, you do and should expect more from a 21 year old Sancho, 23 year old Rashford and 19 year old Greenwood.

In fairness, Greenwood has improved a bit and is now right around league average for his position - but the other two are genuinely terrible out of possession.

Teamwide, our final third pressing is nearly non-existent. Going back to Herrera for PSG...he has 33 final third presses this season by himself. Fred has 15, McTominay has 5. Dan James, who left a month ago, still has more for us this season than Sancho and Martial combined.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

When Ole took over as interim manager he won 10 or 11 matches in row. It could have been new manager effect. But he played 433 formation. Does anyone remember what team he played and what was our midfield. Surely now we have better players than when he took over so why the constant 4231 formation. It seems Ole is so afraid to lose that he doesn't want to attack.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Eep, a little ambiguity made it seem like it was about Ole. Guess I should have inferred that it wasn’t. My bad.

And I agree top 4 isn’t the goal, but if the trend is upward, it’s hard to justify a sacking. This may well be the season where it becomes clear he’s taken us as far as he can, though. I’m sure that will cue a lot of told-you-so’s, but a good number of those will have been saying that for years.

I don't know since when year-on year-on improvement is the goal. We have improved our league position year on year and that's a fact. But if he would be taking us from 6-5-4 would that warrant him staying as well?

We still lose the most important knock-out matches every season, don't come close to challenging for the major trophies and play very poor football for large chunks of the season. Why is that made secundary to "year on year improvement".

There are also other things he has accomplished besides year on year improvement like the atmosphere around the club, the squad overhaul.

 

[NinjaZombie]

There was a passage of play yesterday where both Ronaldo and Greenwood were in the same inside right position trying to reach a pass made by one of their team mates and almost getting in each other's way.

A clear sign that the team doesn't know what it is supposed to do and where everyone else is supposed to be.

 

[Rash Decision]

He doesn't know how to deal with one too.

I'm sure he imagines he knows how. And then wonders why his players fail so often. Maybe if we buy another 200mil worth of midfielders he'd solve it.

Which is very disappointing given that this is something the new coach Eric Ramsay is supposed to be good at.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

Last 2 games 55 shots

24 off target
21 Blocked
10 on target
NO GOALS.

 

[AneRu]

I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.

Who paid £50m for Wan Bissaka? Who chose to spend £70m last summer on players he had no intention of using in the first team? Who then spent another £70m on a winger he doesn't use? Ole is not a victim in all this as you'd like to portray, he made those decisions and in most instances paid out record fees whilst neglecting the midfield.

Can we really blame anyone besides the manager for the fact that we paid £50m for AWB? Let's be honest and dial down on the delusions, anyone could see the problems that would emerge with a limited footballer like him but he was getting praised for a cultural reboot when he brought AWB and Maguire in despite paying over the odds for what were limited footballers.

If Ole really felt that his midfielders were not good enough to play how he wants to play maybe he'd do more to integrate the £40m midfielder he has rotting away on the bench. I don't really rate VDB that much, I don't think he is savior but I can see that he has a shorter leash than Fred who has been atrocious in 2021 but still gets starts for us. The question Ole has to answer is why did we spend so much on him when the only competent midfielder we had was showing signs of being done at this level in 2019?

The truth is we are here because of the recruitment decisions made by Ole and his team. For him or his supporters to now try and hide behind the deficiencies he avoided solving is disingenuous to say the least.

 

[CSW612]

Yes, we are.

No plan, no pattern or no style. Just a bunch of 11 individuals on the ground trying to do something.

Bringing a right back who can attack because our 50m signing cant attack. Playing Bruno deep , Rashford right, Cavani left.

Seriously WTF is happening?

Totally agree. The other main issue I have with the coaches and manager is the lack of passion during matches. Everyone just seems to be happy sitting down and watching the game especially when the team is playing poorly or getting dominated on the field. This proves there is no tactical coaching or game plan whatsoever. Any passionate manager should be constantly giving instructions or even shouting at players during a game. Very disappointed with Ole.

 

[largelyworried]

Who paid £50m for Wan Bissaka? Who chose to spend £70m last summer on players he had no intention of using in the first team? Who then spent another £70m on a winger he doesn't use? Ole is not a victim in all this as you'd like to portray, he made those decisions and in most instances paid out record fees whilst neglecting the midfield.

Can we really blame anyone besides the manager for the fact that we paid £50m for AWB? Let's be honest and dial down on the delusions, anyone could see the problems that would emerge with a limited footballer like him but he was getting praised for a cultural reboot when he brought AWB and Maguire in despite paying over the odds for what were limited footballers.

If Ole really felt that his midfielders were not good enough to play how he wants to play maybe he'd do more to integrate the £40m midfielder he has rotting away on the bench. I don't really rate VDB that much, I don't think he is savior but I can see that he has a shorter leash than Fred who has been atrocious in 2021 but still gets starts for us. The question Ole has to answer is why did we spend so much on him when the only competent midfielder we had was showing signs of being done at this level in 2019?

The truth is we are here because of the recruitment decisions made by Ole and his team. For him or his supporters to now try and hide behind the deficiencies he avoided solving is disingenuous to say the least.

I’ve generally been behind Ole’s decisions on transfers. We’re better than we were when we took over and no manager gets every transfer right. But the midfield situation is a mess and that’s on the manager. We’ve spent enough money and had enough windows that there’s no excuse for failing to address this part of the field. It’s not like Martial where one minute he was firing on all cylinders and then suddenly he’s spent. McFred have been better in previous seasons but they’ve never looked like top level talents. And Matic was looking past it when Mourinho was in charge. Going into a fourth season in charge with no new additions in that area could cost us this season.

 

[MichaelRed]

It’s Like talking to children

What, Ole when he talks to his coaching staff?

 

[Rossa]

Yeah good thing Ole's won so many trophies like those fellows did. Such a similar situation.

Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!

Or, that pretty much no team is perfect.

 

[MDFC Manager]

You enjoy park the bus, long ball, kick & run, hit & hope football? We had that under Mourinho but only with better defensive structure and actual trophies. Does your love of Ole somehow delude you into thinking this is attacking, front-foot football?

Well he does talk about pashun. Surely that's a positive

 

[Escobar]

Last 2 games 55 shots

24 off target
21 Blocked
10 on target
NO GOALS.

Moyes'esque numbers in terms of efficiency

 

[largelyworried]

I do think we're currently trying to come to terms with a new, more aggressive style of play, and not doing it particularly well right now.

However, I just watched the Liverpool highlights, and one thing that struck me again is that we do seem to have to work incredibly hard for our goals. Liverpool scored three today, none of them could be attributed to "patterns of play" or stylish attacking football. One a nothing cross that the Brentford CB misjudges, one a nothing shot that takes a deflection from a Brentford defender stood ridiculously deep and one a mundane knock over the top that Salah manages to get on the end of due to a wonky defensive line.

Now, genuine question, what is it we are not doing that a team like Liverpool is doing? Are we too predictable? Do we not get enough bodies in the box? Do we not cross the ball early enough? Do we pass up too many opportunities to shoot, or are we too greedy?

We can talk about "patterns of play" and attacking overloads, but that wasn't how Liverpool scored any of their goals today. I thought this might be fixed with a proper CF, but we still seem to be having issue. Over 50 shots in our last two games and no goals to show for it. No real guilt edge chances either, more worringly. Why is that?

Edit: One of my theories is that we don't keep the ball well enough in midfield/defence to draw the opposition out. Our problems have been particularly bad at OT, where we typically face very deep, packed defences. We seem to rush the ball forward and hit a brick wall. The reason top sides have started focusing on ball-playing defenders, DMs ans GKs is that you can "tease" the opposition into pressing you high and then beat the press. We can't/don't do that. We rush it forward, trying impossible passes or crossing into packed penalty areas. Do we need to be more patient, and focus on drawing the opposition out?

There’s lots of takes on why we struggle with this. My take is that we’ve always struggled to have a controlled sense of possession throughout Ole’s tenure. That manifests itself as not being able to play out from the back or through a high press, not being able to dominate good passing teams in midfield and not being able to work the opposition when they try and play a low block. It all stems from the limited way we work and move the ball around the pitch, both individually and tactically.

When top teams play against a solid defence they don’t just hold on to the ball waiting for a gap. They pull and stretch the opposition in specific ways to make gaps open up and then work them. Even against Newcastle where we played pretty well, we struggled to make clear chances in the first half because our possession was aimless and just seemed to be about letting our players taking turns to try something, rather than executing a plan designed to penetrate a packed back line.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Moyes'esque numbers in terms of efficiency

At least yesterday we went sending all goal kicks Pogba's way. Improvement.

 

[mav_9me]

There’s lots of takes on why we struggle with this. My take is that we’ve always struggled to have a controlled sense of possession throughout Ole’s tenure. That manifests itself as not being able to play out from the back or through a high press, not being able to dominate good passing teams in midfield and not being able to work the opposition when they try and play a low block. It all stems from the limited way we work and move the ball around the pitch, both individually and tactically.

When top teams play against a solid defence they don’t just hold on to the ball waiting for a gap. They pull and stretch the opposition in specific ways to make gaps open up and then work them. Even against Newcastle where we played pretty well, we struggled to make clear chances in the first half because our possession was aimless and just seemed to be about letting our players taking turns to try something, rather than executing a plan designed to penetrate a packed back line.

Fairly obvious and simple. Spot on.

 

[captaincantona]

There were a few of us in here after the first West Ham match getting battered for saying the coaching is not up to scratch and the performances are exactly the same as last season- slow, individual stuff- Get it to Ronaldo’s feet...shoot, Pogba run through 2 or 3...shoot, Greenwood from anywhere...shoot...Fernandes...at some point the talent has an off day. We also got hammered for not jumping on the Jessy bandwagon and were told we had an agenda?!

Regardless of the result, that performance was diabolical from a tactical attacking perspective. Again we had no clue...but it could easily have been 1-0 to us thanks to a Lingard cracker...and the same old posters would be in here pointing at “goals scored” ...saying “ we are top of the league though...we must be good” “ eh...we finished 2nd last season”...

now in the cold light of day...are you guys seriously saying this game wasn’t an exact replica of most of our close wins last season? We are always one strike away from a bad result- always on the cusp of a draw or a victory...rarely ever convincing. Ole likes to pass that off by saying “the game is about fine margins”. With the squad we have, we should not be talking about fine margins so much.

 

[Mickson]

There were a few of us in here after the first West Ham match getting battered for saying the coaching is not up to scratch and the performances are exactly the same as last season- slow, individual stuff- Get it to Ronaldo’s feet...shoot, Pogba run through 2 or 3...shoot, Greenwood from anywhere...shoot...Fernandes...at some point the talent has an off day. We also got hammered for not jumping on the Jessy bandwagon and were told we had an agenda?!

Regardless of the result, that performance was diabolical from a tactical attacking perspective. Again we had no clue...but it could easily have been 1-0 to us thanks to a Lingard cracker...and the same old posters would be in here pointing at “goals scored” ...saying “ we are top of the league though...we must be good” “ eh...we finished 2nd last season”...

now in the cold light of day...are you guys seriously saying this game wasn’t an exact replica of most of our close wins last season? We are always one strike away from a bad result- always on the cusp of a draw or a victory...rarely ever convincing. Ole likes to pass that off by saying “the game is about fine margins”. With the squad we have, we should not be talking about fine margins so much.

People here are very outcome-based. We win = we are the best team in the world, regardless of how we played and if you criticize the performance you're an ABU or a WUM. I swear some don't even watch the games. It's clear to anyone who watches us regularly that we have some serious problems.

 

[hungrywing]

Moyes'esque numbers in terms of efficiency

He and Ole post-sack will collaborate on a no-holds-barred hip-hop album, 81 Crosses to Bear, chronicling their pain while at United.

 

[Jericholyte2]

This is Ole’s 4th season and:

• He’s still talking about needing to sort out the issue whereby we start games horrifically slow
• He’s spent nearly £300m but hasn’t resolved the midfield issue
• Doesn’t appear to know how to dominate games and play like Man Utd unless we’re the underdog
• His talk of out-working, out-pressing the opposition has led to no real change
• He also came out on national TV saying he ‘couldn't fault the lads’ because they ‘had a go’

Anyone who can’t see the clear and obvious issue with the current management is simply ignoring the evidence of their eyes and ears.

 

[Kopral Jono]

There’s lots of takes on why we struggle with this. My take is that we’ve always struggled to have a controlled sense of possession throughout Ole’s tenure. That manifests itself as not being able to play out from the back or through a high press, not being able to dominate good passing teams in midfield and not being able to work the opposition when they try and play a low block. It all stems from the limited way we work and move the ball around the pitch, both individually and tactically.

When top teams play against a solid defence they don’t just hold on to the ball waiting for a gap. They pull and stretch the opposition in specific ways to make gaps open up and then work them. Even against Newcastle where we played pretty well, we struggled to make clear chances in the first half because our possession was aimless and just seemed to be about letting our players taking turns to try something, rather than executing a plan designed to penetrate a packed back line.

Great post. This furthers my point that Ole's brand of 'we have world class talents up front so inshallah and let's hope for the best' football belongs in the nineties and has no place at the highest level in the modern game.

 

[stw2022]

Yeah good thing Ole's won so many trophies like those fellows did. Such a similar situation.

Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!

The constant comparisons to Fergie are both disrespectful and hilarious in equal measure.

 

[Revan]

Quite honestly even though he is way past his prime I think Mourinho could achieve more with this current set of players we have which isn't saying much

Mourinho achieved more with a worse set of players when he was here. 2 trophies to 0; 7 more points when both finished second. So yes, Mourinho would achieve more with this set of players.

 

[stw2022]

People here are very outcome-based. We win = we are the best team in the world, regardless of how we played and if you criticize the performance you're an ABU or a WUM. I swear some don't even watch the games. It's clear to anyone who watches us regularly that we have some serious problems.

Thought this for a long time. Had plenty of arguments here with people essentially arguing that you can better judge a player’s performance by reading the stats printed in the following morning’s paper than the “eye test” (which turned out to mean: watching him play)

 

[Revan]

Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer lovely rewriting of history. We finished 2nd, god knows how, a sign of the shite level of the league that season. We were tumescent to watch, and the atmosphere was miserable. Anyone reminiscing positively about that season are weirdos.

We finished second but with 7 more points than when we finished second last season under Ole. And yet Ole is a messiah to you and some other fans.

We played horrible football under Mourinho, but it was not worse than how we play under Ole. We got embarrassed against Sevilla in UCL, but at least we passed the group stage, something that Ole couldn’t do last season and probably won’t do again. And when we were in Europa (inherited by Van Gal), we actually won it quite comfortably.

The front four back then was Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford and Lingard. Quite a bit worse than Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno and Greenwood. We had Smalling, Bailly and Valencia in defense. We spent around 180m pounds to upgrade that to AWB, Maguire and Varane.

The main difference is that we were more successful under Mourinho, while we played the same low-quality football. But since then we have spent more than 400m and the only important player we have sold is Lukaku.

 

[Revan]

He doesn't know how to deal with one too.

I'm sure he imagines he knows how. And then wonders why his players fail so often. Maybe if we buy another 200mil worth of midfielders he'd solve it.

The problem is that we might well upgrade the midfield and RB this season. But then next excuse is gonna be that Ronaldo now is too old (37-38) years so we need Haaland or some other striker. Give Ole another year. Then we do that, but then we realize that Maguire is actually not that good so we need another CB.

At this stage it is pathetic. A never ending list of excuses. It is like all other managers have 2 world class players in every position. Only poor Ole has to deal with this mess of a team, the most expensive of all time.

 

[FreakyJim]

The problem is that we might well upgrade the midfield and RB this season. But then next excuse is gonna be that Ronaldo now is too old (37-38) years so we need Haaland or some other striker. Give Ole another year. Then we do that, but then we realize that Maguire is actually not that good so we need another CB.

At this stage it is pathetic. A never ending list of excuses. It is like all other managers have 2 world class players in every position. Only poor Ole has to deal with this mess of a team, the most expensive of all time.

Guardiola kind of does, but yes I agree. Ole has to pray the team steps up and Bruno + Ronaldo save his job. These next few games are defining imo. Continue to struggle and it's a slippery slope.

Regarding our football, we'll never be a modern side under Ole, that much has been obvious for years. Doesn't mean we can't be a reasonably successful one in terms of top 4 though, so let's hope.

Like I said earlier, the coaching culture at the club needs changing, fundamentally. From u9s to first team. No more this "united way" nonsene, no more "hit them on the break". We either adapt to the reality of today's game or continue going nowhere. Are there people in the club willing to do the change? Doesn't seem like it.

 

[Judas]

We finished second but with 7 more points than when we finished second last season under Ole. And yet Ole is a messiah to you and some other fans.

We played horrible football under Mourinho, but it was not worse than how we play under Ole. We got embarrassed against Sevilla in UCL, but at least we passed the group stage, something that Ole couldn’t do last season and probably won’t do again. And when we were in Europa (inherited by Van Gal), we actually won it quite comfortably.

The front four back then was Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford and Lingard. Quite a bit worse than Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno and Greenwood. We had Smalling, Bailly and Valencia in defense. We spent around 180m pounds to upgrade that to AWB, Maguire and Varane.

The main difference is that we were more successful under Mourinho, while we played the same low-quality football. But since then we have spent more than 400m and the only important player we have sold is Lukaku.

Stopped reading when you bizarrely claimed I think Ole is a messiah? All you have to do is read a few posts from me just yesterday to know I don't think he's good enough long term and haven't thought he was for ages. Probably would have been an alright post without silly little remarks like that though.

 

[Revan]

Guardiola kind of does, but yes I agree. Ole has to pray the team steps up and Bruno + Ronaldo save his job. These next few games are defining imo. Continue to struggle and it's a slippery slope.

Regarding our football, we'll never be a modern side under Ole, that much has been obvious for years. Doesn't mean we can't be a reasonably successful one in terms of top 4 though, so let's hope.

He doesn’t have a useful striker.

Imagine our only striker being Gabriel Jesus. There would be mass protests here about the injustice that the Glazers did to Ole by not giving him a striker. Especially if our rivals had Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood who can play in that position.

 

[MichaelRed]

He doesn’t have a useful striker.

Imagine our only striker being Gabriel Jesus. There would be mass protests here about the injustice that the Glazers did to Ole by not giving him a striker. Especially if our rivals had Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood who can play in that position.

Imagine if Luke Shaw was in jail too.

 

[FreakyJim]

He doesn’t have a useful striker.

Imagine our only striker being Gabriel Jesus. There would be mass protests here about the injustice that the Glazers did to Ole by not giving him a striker. Especially if our rivals had Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood who can play in that position.

Yes, everyone knows about their strikers. He's been crying for a few months. They have almost two first 11s though, they could field two teams in the PL and probably finish in the top 4 with both. No other team comes close to that squad depth.

 

[AneRu]

The problem is that we might well upgrade the midfield and RB this season. But then next excuse is gonna be that Ronaldo now is too old (37-38) years so we need Haaland or some other striker. Give Ole another year. Then we do that, but then we realize that Maguire is actually not that good so we need another CB.

At this stage it is pathetic. A never ending list of excuses. It is like all other managers have 2 world class players in every position. Only poor Ole has to deal with this mess of a team, the most expensive of all time.

This season some are already complaining about AWB's limitations o n the ball like it wasnt apparent in his first here when people were praising Ole for a cultural reboot when he signed AWB and Maguire.

There will always have an excuse, you are spot on about that, for example Ole has ignored the midfield for three years yet we are supposed to sympathize with him for having to play McFred when in the summer threads were made about the exact issue and Ole did nothing, he even blocked sales of unwanted players and frowned upon a few DMs more useful preferring to wait another year for the not so special Rice.

It will take us the best part of two seasons to get Rice and Haaland in, by then Bruno, Maguire and Varane will be approaching or past 30 then the new excuse will be he needs younger legs because the core of the team has aged.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.

The unknowns in Brentford easily progressed the ball against Liverpool's hardcore pressing, they pass and move, got the ball to dangerous areas and created chances.

Fred+ McTominay+Pogba+Fernandes should be able to dominate McGinn+D.Luiz+Ramsey

You talk as if Fred & McTominay can't play football, these guys are regular internationals ( which means other coaches besides ours also rate them), Fred is better than D.Luiz, McTominay is better than Ramsey, Fernandes is better than McGinn, Pogba is better than any midfielder they have.

Also AWB isn't limited, look at Brentford full backs, I know they play as WBs but they pass and cross just fine, AWB doesn't have to be Cafu level to play RB.

I mean, when I watch us play, there is virtually no movement, no combination, nothing, unless Bruno gets the ball, looks up for CR7, who then tries to move among 3 CBs who could easily counter him. We aren't doing the simple and basic things, and I can't explain why is that and I won't accept the "AWB and McFred are limited on the ball" reason.

I also noticed that our players play as if they are alone, Greenwood gets the ball and only tries to shoot, no combination with anyone, CR7 gets the ball and tries his usual overstep and shoot, our attackers don't combine at all.

 

[Revan]

Yes, everyone knows about their strikers. He's been crying for a few months. They have almost two first 11s though, they could field two teams in the PL and probably finish in the top 4 with both. No other team comes close to that squad depth.

And the striker is widely considered to be the most important position in a team. It is why they cost most.

Beside the striker, they have a 36 year old Fernandinho as the only cover for defensive midfielder. They have Scott Carson as cover for goalkeeper. And they have Zinchenko as their only left back. So no, they do not have 2 teams full of world class players.

Heck even in midfield they are barely better than us. Rodri is better than McFred, I grant you that. Gundogan is not better than Pogba. And De Bruyne is a bit better than Fernandez. But somehow, he has managed to make a system with those three players, who knows maybe because he is not playing De Bruyne 20m further from the others. And even when De Bruyne is injured, somehow he just slots a player there, be it Silva or Foden and they play identically.

Who would have thought that a manager who is actually good at his job could do this?!

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yes, everyone knows about their strikers. He's been crying for a few months. They have almost two first 11s though, they could field two teams in the PL and probably finish in the top 4 with both. No other team comes close to that squad depth.

They really don't. Their second string XI is clearly worse.

Their squad is severely overrated on here, because of Pep Guardiola. He makes them look better than they are.

I guarantee you if we swapped squads, there would be constant complaints here how Jesus is the only striker.

 

[arnie_ni]

I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.

Hes been here for how many transfers windows and hasn't fixed the obvious shortcomings in our midfield that ever fan can see.

 

[MadDogg]

When Ole took over as interim manager he won 10 or 11 matches in row. It could have been new manager effect. But he played 433 formation. Does anyone remember what team he played and what was our midfield. Surely now we have better players than when he took over so why the constant 4231 formation. It seems Ole is so afraid to lose that he doesn't want to attack.

It was mostly a Matic-Herrera-Pogba midfield, which is the closest thing to a properly balanced midfield that we've used for years (probably since Fergie). One midfielder who sits back a fair bit and is decent at playing the ball around and protecting the defence. One midfield harrier, hunting and winning the ball and making it difficult for the opposition. One creative attacking midfielder, with the freedom to go mostly where he wants so he can help the midfield while still being a significant attacking threat himself. It wasn't perfect (Matic would need to be upgraded with a superior playmaker), but it was the closest we've had. Actually there was a brief Carrick-Herrera-Pogba combo in Mourinho's first season that also worked well, but Mourinho quickly ran an aging Carrick into the ground.

There's nothing wrong with 4231. We just don't have the midfielders capable of playing either 4231 or 433 very well. In Bruno and Pogba we have two players who can play the most attacking role in those formations. But the other two roles? None of Scott, Matic or Pogba are suitable in any kind of combination. All of them basically abandon half the duties. Scott basically hides when we have the ball and doesn't actually do that much defending. Matic spends half the match in the defence and only has the legs to play 45 minutes once a week. Pogba has good passing ability but that's about it. In theory Fred could play the harrier role (similar to Herrera did during that run after Ole's appointment, or that Kante does for Chelsea), but he would need the right partner next to him and who knows if he'd end up being good enough in a properly functioning midfield. The fact that he ends up trying to be our main deeper playmaker at the moment really says everything about how bad our current midfield balance is.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.

This is amusing given Ole has completely neglected the midfield and spent 50 million on the right back who creates problems in our buildup. Excuses galore for Ole.

 

[AneRu]

When Ole took over as interim manager he won 10 or 11 matches in row. It could have been new manager effect. But he played 433 formation. Does anyone remember what team he played and what was our midfield. Surely now we have better players than when he took over so why the constant 4231 formation. It seems Ole is so afraid to lose that he doesn't want to attack.

Its because of Bruno who came in and got him the CL football that saved his job. He has also been our most important player over the one and half season that he played for us so I get why he wants to utilize a formation that gets the best out of him.