I know what you mean but the fact that it's not quantified is annoying me. I looked online and can't find any info on the rest of the teams' home win % in the league..
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Lampard was getting job at Palace. And there haven't been a lot of openings ever since he was sacked. I'm pretty sure he'd be back managing in a PL club pretty soon because unlike what the caf thinks, player/manager ability isn't binary (shit or WC) and Lampard isn't shit
And how did he get those top 4 finishes? I'm really interested in knowing that. Because the argument you'd use in 1 season to downplay his finish can be used to back him up for the other season, so I'm really interested in that.
I think you need some context, we came second behind a club with monopoly money and the best manager at being able to win things with unlimited resources.
Yeah, that's strange. Would be interested in that too. Would definitely expect City and Liverpool to have a great record over the last few seasons, and Chelsea pre and post Lampard.
Yeah maybe if he actually dropped the old boys club for proper coaches and Mcfred to just squad options rather than starters
Are you talking about under Ole or Mourinho ?
Not bothered about the win percentage when have seen enough evidence of his basic tactics and game management
I agree you'd expect a top 4 team to be winning the vast majority of their home games but I'm fecked if I'm counting them myself
His staff are bloody awful and highly inexperienced and don't just mean Carrick, McKenna & Phelan either
I've never understood this argument. "Team X only did well because of player Y" yes, teams tend to be directly impacted by the performances of the players they sign, go figure.
"Team X only did this because team Y was poorer than them that year" - this happens every single season.
When is the last time City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester, Spurs all had strong seasons with no underperformance or implosion? City won the league comfortably last year as their direct rival from the prior season imploded (Liverpool) Liverpool won the season prior to that due to a City implosion (finishing 17 points behind Liverpool)
Now don't get me wrong, it's make or break time for Ole and he needs a title challenge and a cup at least to keep his job, or I will want him out. But there is no way the knives would be out for any of the "in vogue" mangers this soon into a season (it's not even October FFS) if they had the exact same results as Ole.
So if Ole won the league you would say not bothered about points tally still not good enough……..
This level of confidence or security makes me curious, the decision to sack Ole or all our previous sacking is not made by people in the club. I doubt there is anyone outside the Glazer-Woodward triumvirate who knows the thought processes that the Glazer siblings go through when making such a decision.
The Moyes, LVG and Mourinho sacking had the appearance of a sudden decision from the higher ups and I doubt this one would be made with any consultation either. The people 'inside the club' that give you the confidence to think that Ole is safe don't even have any power when Joel and Avram decide its time, recent history is instructive.
There is no irony. Just simple fact. Progress is here for evreyone to see. This year is the year where we should challenge for league title and with our start I don't see any problem with that. Winning it is another matter.
Inexperienced? Some maybe but there are ton of experience both as coaches and players.
Quick browse:I agree you'd expect a top 4 team to be winning the vast majority of their home games but I'm fecked if I'm counting them myself
City '20-'21: 68.4%
City '19-'20: 78.9%
Liverpool '20-'21: 52.6%
Liverpool '19-'21: 94.7%
There is a lot of irony in your post. Looking at the fecking table after 6 games played is short sighted. Especially considering the dross we faced so far. Our under par performances in 4,5 of 6 PL games tell a bigger picture. Combine that with our embarrassing loss to Young Boys and our game against West Ham in the league cup and there's not much left of that improvement you are talking about. Especially as we struggle at exactly the same things we struggled throughout of Ole's tenure here. Albeit spending half a fecking billion on players
Unless he totally tanks the next few games he deserves to see out the year. Long term however, if we keep coming back to the same question as to whether he's good enough, it sort of answers it doesn't it? He wins the Prem or UCL, then everything changes. We won't have this great squad for very long in the condition it's in. It's not "now or never" but we absolutely have to take advantage of having the likes of Ronaldo/Pogba/Varane in their peak or close to it.
Spot on
Did you reply to your own post or forget to log into an alt account....
As long as Ole is here we'll have to hope that the Glazers keep spending money until we've such a good squad it makes up for Ole's shortcomings. With the oil clubs around I doubt that will ever happen
I added to my own post, I only have one account, maybe I should create another and agree with myself all the time that would be a great use of my time…..
Yes I agree
"Inside the club" of course means the Glazers etc.
Not really. Moyes failed spectacularly and the writing was on the wall for a long time. Stories that have come out also shows that the players didn't have much faith in him. Van Gaal failed to get CL football in his 2nd season and that was always going to lead to his sacking. Mourinho had a complete meltdown and the writing was on the wall for several weeks/months.
The question should be is he good enough to take us to the next stage? If not then the long term and short term health of the club has to be taken into consideration and a decision made. I also don't think there is much to see beyond what we have seen, his teams can conjure an impressive run of results and at the click of a finger play like drunkards.
So far he has lost three out of four, the trend for him suggests he could draw or lose the next three then when the pressure is on he pulls a couple of impressive wins. But the issue is that a team that is fighting for the title can not afford that at all because by the time the team stabilizes from this latest slump we could be out of the title race and out of the CL.
For me the club shouldnt have to wait until the end of the season to answer a question they already know the answer to. The club has to take care of itself or it runs the risk of the big investments it has made not paying off and facing another rebuild in a couple of years.
If you remember the time Moyes was sacked the writing wasn't on the wall, the club looked like they were sticking to Gary Neville's assertions that he needed time. He had failed but the likes of Woodward never really showed him or us that the writing was indeed on the wall. The guy was still making scouting trips to watch Kroos and Shaw days before he got the sack.
Same with Van Gaal, wasnt he shocked to hear question about his future during a Cup win celebration? The man had survived the slump in the run up to Christmas, discovered Rashford and I think he and most amongst us believed he would survive.
I will give you the Jose sacking, it was quick and brutal but the sadist had been asking for it from preseason.
FFS we haven’t finished September and the Ole in brigade haven’t watched United for 2 seasons….
Well I am not saying we sack him right away (primarily because I don't think we have managers available who I feel should be managing us), but the signs are there for all to see. See the fixture list which Chelsea have come through and compare it to ours. At this point if we were ahead of Chelsea, it would have made sense to say we can only beat what's in front of us. However, we have lost 4 points while struggling in most of our matches except the Leeds one and are already out of a cup.
The CL group is easy and Wednesday's fixture already holds such an importance that it's worrying to think that we could conceivably lose that too.
All this points to us not being good enough despite the quality at our disposal. And for many, Ole is the primary reason for it.
Sack him now or let him see out the season is not the point which people are making. People are saying it's pointless to think he will suddenly transform us into a proper unit when he has struggled to do so after nearly 3 years in charge.
I don't think he deserves to be sacked, nor do I expect him to be anytime soon. He has built this star studded squad, so if this season is a failure, then the failure is firmly on him. I feel he's been afforded a very fair amount of time and resources to rebuild, and failure this season, would warrant the sack. I hope it doesn't end like that, and he can leave on his own terms. However, if things go really tits up over the next 12 games, he has to go.
I'm not really a fan of us sacking managers mid-season, and I have no idea what the data is like, in regards to whether it usually works or not. We saw with Chelsea it worked wonders and the same with us when we sacked Jose for Ole. Obviously, there will be some kind of new manager bounce, but it's about proper sustainability and not a short term bounce. Our next appointment needs to be so well thought out, and the fear is if we sack Ole before the end of the season, we will make another rash, impulsive decision that sets us back again. On the flip side, if we have a really bad next 2 months, the Boards hand might be forced.
I'm not really a fan of us sacking managers mid-season, and I have no idea what the data is like, in regards to whether it usually works or not. We saw with Chelsea it worked wonders and the same with us when we sacked Jose for Ole. Obviously, there will be some kind of new manager bounce, but it's about proper sustainability and not a short term bounce. Our next appointment needs to be so well thought out, and the fear is if we sack Ole before the end of the season, we will make another rash, impulsive decision that sets us back again. On the flip side, if we have a really bad next 2 months, the Boards hand might be forced.
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What are those preseason expectations that he's meeting actually? Has our football been good? Have we been consistently convincing in our performances? Do we look like a team who are on the verge of breaking out?
If the expectations were to play average to poor with bits and pieces of individual brilliance in between to get us over the line in games, then he is just about delivering. Though I doubt we want that for our club.
As for the "next manager" concern, I don't think we will sack Ole now, mostly because the market isn't filled with top managers available now. We may have to see out this season, but we must plan for the future as we won't magically just become good when the signs haven't been there for 3 seasons. It's always been a series of false dawns and 1 steps forward and 2 back.
I think anyone pretending that there isn't a conversation to be had about Ole, isn't being honest. There's some fantastic debate going on around the forum just now, which is refreshing to see. Also credit to some of the 'in' posters for being very nuanced and honest over the past few days. It's made for some really good, healthy debate.
We sacked Moyes immediately after it was mathematically impossible to get top 4.
Van Gaal had a mathematical chance of making top 4 all the way up until the last match. I'm 100% sure that the only reason for why the club didn't sack him right after this was because they didn't want to shake things up too much before the cup final. But his fate was very much sealed after failing to get CL football.
Do you really think the club just randomly decides to sack the manager out of nowhere? There will be certain minimum demands.
Pretty much this.
As bad as Villa was, its obviously knee jerk to sack him now, especially with no realistic replacement lined up, but as you said, he has to show he deserves that seat. Club legend or not
I believe the expectation in 2019/20 was top 4, in 2020/21 was comfortable top 4 and reduce the gap. The expectation this summer is genuine title challenge. The season is 6 games old, so it's stupid to say that he is or isn't hitting that target right now.
Secondly, the individual brilliance piece is overblown. Do you really think a side with just individual brilliance will get this far without being found out. The side has good players, but people think that this is some Brazil 1970 side where the flair players will blow teams over. We struggle in parts - like against teams that press our midfielders and that needs to be worked on. However, if anyone thinks that the team is running on vibes, passion and individual brilliance for the past 2.5 years and getting good results in the most competitive league, they're just kidding themselves. Shit managers get found out in less than half a season, hell the players under the manager will stop playing for such a manager and that will start getting reflected in the results as well
You, bloody you!
You're one of the posters that I absolutely want to call out! Call on out on some really good posts since Saturday! Fair play.
I think Ole has done good building this squad, and with all the ups and downs, overall I’ve enjoyed his appointment, but to me, he’s not the one to take us further, thus we should look for someone who can compete for trophies. Maybe Ole can have another role within the club.
My main worry is that, with this current squads, we should be competing with Europes Top teams, if we stick with Ole and fail, then in my opinion,
-Pogba will leave.
-VDB will also leave (due to lack of playing time).
-Cavani would be gone.
-Possible issues with Bruno contract renewal, he seems like he wants to win any way possible.
I feel like we would fall further behind if we stick with Ole and it doesn’t pay off, on the contrary if we bring someone in and they win us a trophy or two (which with this squad, it’s absolutely possible), and would be back in business and can finally bucks from here on..
to me this is a defining season, as big as Moyes season, I think it’s a huge gamble to stick with Ole, even though he built a great squad, it should be the end of the road for him.
very nervy times in my opinion.
My main worry is that, with this current squads, we should be competing with Europes Top teams, if we stick with Ole and fail, then in my opinion,
-Pogba will leave.
-VDB will also leave (due to lack of playing time).
-Cavani would be gone.
-Possible issues with Bruno contract renewal, he seems like he wants to win any way possible.
I feel like we would fall further behind if we stick with Ole and it doesn’t pay off, on the contrary if we bring someone in and they win us a trophy or two (which with this squad, it’s absolutely possible), and would be back in business and can finally bucks from here on..
to me this is a defining season, as big as Moyes season, I think it’s a huge gamble to stick with Ole, even though he built a great squad, it should be the end of the road for him.
very nervy times in my opinion.
When ever you cant take it, you can always ignore the issue and reply with "2nd, 2nd, 2nd". Straight out of book written by Jose acolytes, same shit just different posters.
Cheers.
I really have not changed my view that much really and its wasnt like Villa was some sort of turning point or eureka moment for me. I've always maintained the stance that he should stay in the job as long as i think its beneficial for the club and that has not changed at all.
I honestly think hes done very well in bringing stability and crafting a squad that can compete for the top prizes. Now that part of the job its done and its time to put that squad to purpose and actually compete and ideally win those top prizes. Thats also why i was so staunchly opposed to the club sacking him last year and the year before, because it might have undone the whole rebuild project and put as back at square one.
Now though, we have a squad that is filled to the brim with top talent and a great mix of youth and experience so the bar has been considerably raised for Ole in my book. Especially after adding two serial winners in Varane and Ronaldo and of the most coveted young players in the world this summer. When Ole took over from Jose, icant imagine any top manager would wanting to touch us with a 10 foot pole, where as now i'd imagine we would have plenty of suitors considering the talent we can field
Tl;dr: I think hes done admirably in steadying the ship and creating a top team, now its time to use that top team to its full effect and Villa was not it
I'm checking the previous bit of posts and see a large contingent of folks saying Ole is not the right one to take us forward.
On that basis, who do you bring in to the football club?
How do we maintain the heritage and philosophies of Man Utd with a new manager. I think Ole has done a great job of bringing that back to United.
Prior to Ole, it was really difficult to get hyped up about watching the team play each time - it was poor football and the result was always in doubt.
We need to give it time - season has just begun - a new CEO is coming into the club - operating principles like transfers and style of play need to be embedded into the fabric of the club as whoever manages United next need to abide by those core operating principles for the club.
On that basis, who do you bring in to the football club?
How do we maintain the heritage and philosophies of Man Utd with a new manager. I think Ole has done a great job of bringing that back to United.
Prior to Ole, it was really difficult to get hyped up about watching the team play each time - it was poor football and the result was always in doubt.
We need to give it time - season has just begun - a new CEO is coming into the club - operating principles like transfers and style of play need to be embedded into the fabric of the club as whoever manages United next need to abide by those core operating principles for the club.
I was being genuine and sincere, apologies if it came across that way, but I genuinely was looking for some advice as to how to become a better poster, as to not have my posts come across as wummy. I genuinely want to be a part of the discussion and not seen as some sort of wind up merchant. Again, I was being sincere.
I wasn't talking about you becoming a better poster, I was asking for your help as to how I can become better. I wasn't criticising any of your posts. I was saying 'if you willing to of course' as in if you are willing to help me [become a better poster].
Thank you, I was a little confused, I will admit haha.
It's no problem at all, mate
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