I am not so confidant in the decision making at the top as you are, no Champions League next year and then 100% they will make a change. I think if Ole goes however right that decision may be from a footballing perspective, it brings indecision in the club and likely a focus back onto the Glazers which they definitely do not want.
Zinedine Zidane - 3 time CL winning manager without a job
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He is even very limited as player from what we need an RCB from in our system, he is not good as rudiger or christensen in reading the game or good with the ball either. It's not all about being good in tackling.
Saw someone say in the Next Utd Manager thread that he's got no tactics and only man manages players
You dont win 3 CLs on the trot and made the semi with a weakened team with no tactics. No tactics leaves you kicked out of the groupstage and beaten by Young Boys.
Zidane isn't dogmatic, that's all. He identifies the strengths and weaknesses of the team he has at his disposal and devises ways to create the best results, often by small tactical tweaks. He's not the Pep or Klopp type who is married to their own vision and will take the teething pains necessary until their team achieve that vision, like finishing 8th or 4th. He spent the last 20 years at the most high pressure environment in football, where every defeat is a crisis and coaches like Del Bosque or Ancelotti didn't survive even after winning the CL, so his coaching style reflects that.
I have been reading football forums for ages and this is probably the most insightful comment on Zidane the coach I have ever seen.
Brilliant.
Yeah top work but his detractors argue that he only won those 3 Champions Leagues in a row because of having the likes of Varane, Kroos, Casemiro, Modric, Bale, Benzema & Ronny to bail him out
What is Poch doing there? He's having PSG play worse than they ever did since the QSI take over.
Worst manager PSG has had in close to a decade
Does anyone know zizou's staff during his real Madrid stint?
Staff is huge. Like united finally cracking Europe consistently when Carlos Queros became assistant.
Staff is huge. Like united finally cracking Europe consistently when Carlos Queros became assistant.
Everyone talks about the united way but Fergie became quite pragmatic after 2005 in Europe.
He knew you had to bolster the midfield.
I can't remember exactly the year or opposition but after dispatching an Italian side one of their managers said we play with 'no striker' in a snarky tone.
I think it was roma around 2008? Not thw 7-2.
Ole not getting a continental assistant or at least a vastly experience one is the thing that passes me off the most.
He knew you had to bolster the midfield.
I can't remember exactly the year or opposition but after dispatching an Italian side one of their managers said we play with 'no striker' in a snarky tone.
I think it was roma around 2008? Not thw 7-2.
Ole not getting a continental assistant or at least a vastly experience one is the thing that passes me off the most.
I disagree, The biggest job in Spain was just taken by Ancelotti and the biggest job in Italy was just taken by Allegri both managers in similar moulds to Zidane. Just within the last season Simeone won La Liga with Atletico, Cristophe Galtier won the ligue 1 with Lille beating a team with 100x the amount of funds and Poch (RedCafes darling), Conte won the serie A with Inter, Mancini won the Euros with Italy knocking out Enriques Spain and Deschamps won the Nations League with France beating out Enriques Spain. Just because there are many new up and coming managers in the Klopp/Pep mould doesn't mean they'll all become as dominant and as good as Pep and Klopp, just as there are many managers in the Ancelotti/Allegri mould that will never be as good as them.
At the end of the day, it's a matter of opinion as all we are doing is trying to predict the future I guess we'll see what happens.
If you only read this thread, you'd think Zidane is only as good as Ole and doesn't know anything about tactics. Someone who doesn't know anything about tactics could win 3 CL in a row, as if it is something that happens all the time. Now please point out which manager in the entire history of football have won 3 CLs in a row without any tactical knowledge? Okay, let's just reduce it to 3 major league titles in a row, any names?
You might be thinking of the 2-0 away win at Roma in 2008. We played a front 3 of Rooney, Ronaldo and Park, the latter bolstering a midfield of Scholes, Carrick and Anderson. I don' think Spaletti was being snarky after the game, he said something along the lines of it was a very 'Italian' performance by us
The key was Park, we had a work horse winger who without the ball would press the opposition midfielders like his life depended on it. I think that's what Ole was hoping he'd get with Dan James.
Brilliant post
Pretty much. The idea that Zidane has "no tactics" is borne of the naivety that managers who use automatism sre the only one who are tactical. Zidane has the exact same manager style as Fergie, with added tactical grounding from his days in Italian football. They build a system, based on gelled partnerships that can adopt to any opposition tactical move. Whilst its players constantly improvise how to out wit the opposition. That is why for 3 season in the UCL Real at their best were unstoppable
Are you suggesting that up and coming managers over the next, say, 5 years will be more likely to be influenced by Zidane and Simeone than by Pep and Klopp?
There is more conservative, pragmatic managers around than there is Pep-like managers. The reality is that since the beginning of time Football has had a balanced mix of styles at the top and it has always been reflected in how up and coming managers operate. So my bet is that you will see the exact same balance than you have today, there is no reason for it to change, particularly when 4 of the last 5 CL champions have been coached by pragmatic managers because don't be fouled, Tuchel is pragmatic and adaptable, he isn't like Pep, he isn't dogmatic.
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La Liga has become quite defensive over the last years. That would suggest that defensive managers like Simeone have had some influence there.
I wouldn't be able to tell you about his indepth staff but the 2 men he brought with him during both of his tenures are David Bettoni and Hamidou Msaidie, one is a long time friend, the other someone he worked with as a player. I also know he brought in the WC winning fitness coach from the French NT during his 2nd stint.
Pep and Klopp are nothing alike to begin with.
I agree that Tuchel is far more pragmatic than Pep & Klopp, but it is a huge stretch to say he's more like Zidane than Klopp. Don't really want to digress about Tuchel, but I'm not buying that at all. (Also you missed out Flick)
As for the overall picture - yes there are plenty of other types of managers, but many of them are as different from each other as they are from Pep/Klopp, and that's the key point. If a club went from, say, Zidane to Simeone to Deschamps, they would be going in pretty different directions each time. If a club went from Pep to Klopp to Flick then, sure, each manager would want their own people and style, but they'd find a group of players much more in tune with how they want to train and play.
That's an excellent post.
I think Ole's style of management, which is mostly man management and little-to-no coaching, has made people clamour for a manager who is primarily a coach with a focus on a particular and easily observable tactical approach. This is a reaction to our current state where we appear severely under-coached. So they see Zidane who is an adaptable coach with no specific tactical methodology and they judge him as tactically not good enough for what we need.
Not really. There is nothing about the players that Zidane has used and succeeded with that doesn't fit with the Pep, Klopp and Flick of this world. What exactly makes you think that Klopp or Flick would struggle to implement their style with kroos, Modric, Benzema, Vinicius, Marcelo, Ramos, Varane or Casemiro? These players are among the most technically gifted and smart players you will find.
It's also worth remembering that footballers are versatile from a tactical standpoint, this idea that you need to find a new group of player for a style is nonsensical while you are not going to use the exact same tactical tools because individual players are different, you don't actually need to change the entire team in order to adopt a particular style. None of the managers that you mentioned rely or have relied on specialists, they all like versatile players that can do more than one thing.
I think even if we did get Zidane, he'd need support, we need some new coaching staff that have experience at the highest level.
If you want an idea of whether Zidane understands tactics or not, you can get a first-hand sense of it by watching the half-time talk he gave for the 2017 CL final.
There is some discussion of tactics there. He is identifying problems the team is having and giving the players instructions on how to correct it. It's not incredibly complicated or sophisticated but it's a lot more than "go out and do your best" or whatever.
There is some discussion of tactics there. He is identifying problems the team is having and giving the players instructions on how to correct it. It's not incredibly complicated or sophisticated but it's a lot more than "go out and do your best" or whatever.
Managers rarely come alone, Zidane like almost every other candidates already have their staff or at least the most important pieces of a staff.
Yeah I suppose so. It will be nice to see some new faces that have done it at the highest level that's for sure.
It’s because you don’t want to overload players with new information, it creates confusion, especially when the coach only have a limited amount of time to convey the instructions. Even when you watch the City or Spurs All or Nothing doc, Pep/Mourinho might look more fancy with their board and screen, but the instructions are still largely the same, short and precise, identifies some present issues and potential dangers. The bulk of the work has already been done pre match, as he alluded to in the clip ‘like how we worked in the training ground’.
I have seen people using this same clip to say that Zidane has the same tactical knowledge as a Sunday League coach, because he said ‘get tighter’, ‘get stuck in’ etc...It’s tragic.
I'm sure his head was full of tactical movements but you can see by the way he's stopping while speaking that he's trying to find a way to easily explain what he wants, without over complicating the information, that's brilliant management.
As a sidenote, I can't fail to mention Gareth Bale in there looking like he doesn't understand jack shit.
The impressive thing is it was 1-1 at half time. Madrid went on to win 4-1, such simple instructions changed the course of the game, especially Ronaldo's second which came from the exact instructions he gave to Modric, Modric himself mentioned this post game.I'm sure his head was full of tactical movements but you can see by the way he's stopping while speaking that he's trying to find a way to easily explain what he wants, without over complicating the information, that's brilliant management.
As a sidenote, I can't fail to mention Gareth Bale in there looking like he doesn't understand jack shit.
It's wishful thinking because I doubt Zidane would take the job as I've heard many times he's not interested in the epl (maybe some French posters can confirm this) and he wants the France job, but, I'd take Zidane any day I think he's very underrated and people act as if controlling a team full of superstars is an easy assignment. He's showed twice now during both stints at Real Madrid that he's a world class manager and tactician, the first stint more attacking, the second stint more defensive. Which shows he can adapt the tactics to accommodate the players he has at his disposal.
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I think this goes to show the lack of respect given considering Zidanes accomplishments. The contrast is that many think any manager can manage a team with good players. "Real only won because of Ronaldo" hear the same arguments with regards to Guardiola and Messi. The reality is only few managers are capable of guiding a team at the highest level. I think Ronaldo coming has to a large extent gone against Ole now, being that the club is expected to win and he's unable to deliver because he's still finding his feet in management.
This is the best team since I can fathom since 07/08 it's sure proof that not anyone can manage quality players. Zidane deserves far more credit.
This is the best team since I can fathom since 07/08 it's sure proof that not anyone can manage quality players. Zidane deserves far more credit.
If Zidane wants to come then I will take him in a heartbeat. Some staggering opinion on a manager who has won CL and La Liga.
I have my reservations but I’d much rather Zidane than Conte.
Agreed and he's an expert at getting underperforming teams to play at their level and that was evident even in his playing days when he dragged France through qualifications all the way to the World Cup final.
How would Zidane line up? Without a transfer window i mean
De gea
Awb
Lindelof
Varane
Shaw
Matic
Vdb
Pogba
Sancho
Cavani
Ronaldo
Without jumping down my throat im totally guessing. Bruno would start every game for me. Im just guessing he'd want a middle 3 keeping ball
De gea
Awb
Lindelof
Varane
Shaw
Matic
Vdb
Pogba
Sancho
Cavani
Ronaldo
Without jumping down my throat im totally guessing. Bruno would start every game for me. Im just guessing he'd want a middle 3 keeping ball
If he'll buy Glazers another 3 years, they'll offer him fat contract.
The best part about that is how we did everything he said exactly, and we hammered them
One of the best i've ever seen at in-game adjustments
Same. I have my doubts. Ideally it would be Ten Hag. But it will probably be Zidane or Conte.
They came out a different team, the shape and dynamic of the team totally changed which means that they trained properly during the week and Zidane's instructions were perfectly understood by the players.
If Zidane is open to managing United then this is a no brainer.
No one better than Zidane who is available at the moment.
Zidane looks like an intelligent chap, he won't be coming into this cesspool of mediocrity and risk dragging his perfect legacy in the mud.