And this is simply why he still has to go. 3 years on and no style of play, no philosophy, nothing. It's sad that it took a 5-0 walloping for most people to come to terms with that. Self preservation mode is fine but we've seen this story far too many times under Ole and it always leads down to the same path. We could be doing so much better under competent coaching and if we had anything about us and tried to be more proactive,w could perhaps salvage something from this season, perhaps a trophy or two.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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2 of them did so last season and there is no reason why 2 of them can't again.
Honestly I'm beginning to fecking hate our fans....
I think you underestimate the confidence boost a team can get from a clean sheet after conceding 19 goals to start the season. Whether or not he sticks to that game plan remains to be seen and he'll end up with one too many 0-0 draws as soon as we start playing the Burnley and Villareal games of the season, so he'll need to be more expansive out of necessity.
Based on mathematical thinking: yes.
Based on football matters: maybe but pretty unlikely, wouldn't you agree? I mean, I don't know, what is more likely at this point, any of them falling into a bigger rut or us constantly leaving the rut we are already in.
Then you are in the wrong thread. At some point, you kind of can't put on the others if you come in here after all.
Sacked Jose only to appoint a worse version of him. Everyone surrounding Man United is clueless, to be honest. Probably because we never had to worry about anything since SAF did that all.
No. Because despite of all the insistence of doom and gloom in here. In the next 5 weeks we could take 3 points off City, Chelsea and Arsenal in the league. We have it in us if we apply ourselves. Regardless of whether you look at maths nor footballing matters. It's not like we havent done it before with Inferior equipment the past few years.
Arteta has achieved more than Ole for feck sakes and thats without spending millions on the best players available.
That must be the famous glas half full
I like it. Honestly I do. I am missing the optimism though. We didn't look too great at the start of the season while playing smaller teams and we looked worryingly bad against all half-decent opponents. The good defensive performance from yesterday might just be a fluke and even if not, it came against a team in probably problems even bigger than ours. Let's see where it gets us. Don't think, there is a big chance, City will take us lightly this time. Probably Pep will play a bit more reserved taking away our only strength. Don't know about Tuchel but probably he would also be fine with a match ending in a draw.
I’m still raging we sacked Atkinson.
There's no more damaging critique of Ole's plans than Ole giving up on them.
exhibit A
All 3 of them were comfortably better than us by the end of last season despite how the table looked. See Liverpool smashing 4 past us at OT and Chelsea winning the CL. Now this season has started all things being equal, no Lampard, no empty stadiums, injuries pending etc I think you're being very optimistic.
Put it this wayThat must be the famous glas half full
I like it. Honestly I do. I am missing the optimism though. We didn't look too great at the start of the season while playing smaller teams and we looked worryingly bad against all half-decent opponents. The good defensive performance from yesterday might just be a fluke and even if not, it came against a team in probably problems even bigger than ours. Let's see where it gets us. Don't think, there is a big chance, City will take us lightly this time. Probably Pep will play a bit more reserved taking away our only strength. Don't know about Tuchel but probably he would also be fine with a match ending in a draw.
Every time we've beaten City recently it has had nothing to do with them t aking us lightly. We just got our tactics and game plan right. Right now they aren't even in invincible form.
As for Tuchel. He doesn't have the best of records vs Ole. Plus missing Lukau is a huge plus for us. We get our tactics and game plan right, match day. He will sweat to beat us too.
Of the three big games we have coming up o the league its actually arteta who seems to enjoy himself vs Ole. But I believe if we do the right things. We'll beat him too
Even though we beat up on a floundering spurs. I was encouraged by our application plus hopefully the start of keeping cleqn sheets again.
We've only had that application twice this season. Vs Leeds at home and West Ham away. The rest of the time we haven't been organised enough nor have we worked hard enough as a team. If we can do those 2 things consistently. It will put us in good stead for the rest of the season at the very least
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Lame excuse. We both participated in a 38 game season. It not out problem they were finally good in the final 5th of it. We also lost a major european final on penalties. Sp iy snot like we were a million miles behind them both by season end
I am. Because I've just seen Liverpool draw with brighton at home after thrashing us 5. City lose at home to Palace. Tuchel may be running away with the league ATM but he is yet to beat Ole in any meeting with any club. So its not like we are facing invincible opponents. As long as we actually apply ourselves like we did yesterday, consistently. We have the quality to compete favorably.
If I said United would have won the league in 95 if Cantona wasnt suspended would that be a lame excuse.
Also yes the Europa League final is a million miles behind the Champions League Final. We couldn't even beat Villarreal in it anyway.
Citing the Europa League final as some kind of success after starting in the Champions League is desperate. By definition you literally only end up in the Europa League from that spot because you failed in the Champions League. To not then win it can hardly be deemed any kind of success when you compare our squad and budget to the teams we played in it.
The we were above Chelsea and Liverpool last season argument can work both ways too. Given that would then point towards major problems if we're then well behind them this season after a summer where we added Ronaldo, Sancho, and Varane. That can't actually be defined yet as you don't know the future, what you can look at though is objective measures on performance, which have us performing worse than last season, which should very rightly be a major concern.
The we were above Chelsea and Liverpool last season argument can work both ways too. Given that would then point towards major problems if we're then well behind them this season after a summer where we added Ronaldo, Sancho, and Varane. That can't actually be defined yet as you don't know the future, what you can look at though is objective measures on performance, which have us performing worse than last season, which should very rightly be a major concern.
Yes, it is! It's not the fault of others he got himself suspended
People keep acting like we lost 4 nil in that final. We lost on penalties that went to double figures
I agree, Pep doesn't have the best of records against us. But the last matches were pretty telling in my eyes. And yes - taking something lightly played a big part in it: See the first league game against us last season, Pep went reserved against us, didn't gave us lots of room, he played for a narrow win, trying to get something out of the game which came at a point, where both team looked good in the table. At the end of the day, it was a draw with City being the slightly better team. The match in the cup. City were as convincing as it gets. They played us off the park and themselves into a frenzy that lasted for quite some time. Last league game. Before the game Pep had 14 points difference between themselves and us on 2nd. Knowing that, he played his more natural game - attacking, dominant. Blue Moon went mental with many of his decisions. He lost deservedly - did he take us lightly? I think he did, because when he didn't he controlled the matches.
Don't think he will sweat. Because he is already top of the league. He doesn't need a win against us, we need one against them. A goalless draw is fine for them.
Yeah, difficult to predict. We should put them away but that applied to so many games in the past where it went differently in the end.
Reading that, I would say that Leeds have been terrible (look at their pre-season form, they were nothing like the team of the season before and even if they would have been, their style suits us pretty much) and Spurs were terrible which made it easy for us to "show" application, get a clean sheet, be organised. Again I like the optimism, but I don't think, we should expect more than or one of the top matches to be as easy because the opponents struggle so much.
City and Liverpool are awfully coached teams. Results against Palace and Brighton (at home) are unacceptable.
Pep and Klopp are clueless managers
Suppose their supporters demand their manager resign or being sacked.
Pep and Klopp are clueless managers
Suppose their supporters demand their manager resign or being sacked.Did you miss the news yesterday or why did we have to wait for that completely unknown punchline for so long?City and Liverpool are awfully coached teams. Results against Palace and Brighton (at home) are unacceptable.
Pep and Klopp are clueless managers
Look at how many trophies those 2 have won.City and Liverpool are awfully coached teams. Results against Palace and Brighton (at home) are unacceptable.
Pep and Klopp are clueless managers
If 15 years ago a City fan had made some lame comparison that Ferguson's side had lost a game and they're only 3 points between us & them so we must be shit you'd have realised what a dumb argument that was given his track record. The same applies now. One game doesn't make any manager.
Being a great manager is fresh produce. Once a great manager doesn’t mean you are a great manager now, example Mourinho.
Last season was almost catastrophe for Klopp, and this season he has to win or prove something to keep his status and not being a fallen star.
If you don’t like moaning you’re in the wrong place
We are an awfully coached team and an awfully managed/ built team. Ole does not have a clue, what he wants. Does he want an attacking high pressing team, does he want a counter attacking team.... Now we have these attacking players like Sancho, Rashford, Martial, Carvani, Ronaldo, Lingard, VDB, Greenwood, Fernandes, Diallo, Mata and no idea how we should use them. He signed VDB without an idea how to use him and stopped him from leaving. He resigned Mata without any need. He refused to sell Lingard but does not have much playing time. He signed Ronaldo and resigned Carvani without an idea how to use them both. But we have Matic as DM, Matic an old, slow man past his prime. We have McFred and Pogba as CM in an unbalanced midfield.
Now Ole wants to save his ass and uses a 3 -5-2 formation, which is an 5-2-1-2, because we do not have wingbacks. We use 3 out of 11 attackers, waste millions on the bench, waste so much talent and we lose credibility as a club the way we treat our players, because Ole has no clue. A manager should be fired for this mismanagement. But some people still want to keep Ole, a manager who will not improve this team, he will limit this team because he will fight for his live and wont stop wasting money and talent.
Now Ole wants to save his ass and uses a 3 -5-2 formation, which is an 5-2-1-2, because we do not have wingbacks. We use 3 out of 11 attackers, waste millions on the bench, waste so much talent and we lose credibility as a club the way we treat our players, because Ole has no clue. A manager should be fired for this mismanagement. But some people still want to keep Ole, a manager who will not improve this team, he will limit this team because he will fight for his live and wont stop wasting money and talent.
Its funny because I will probably get lambasted for this.
I actually recognised Oles tactical shift this season (and initially wasn't mad), or should I say Phelans. Sadly we just don't have the CBs for it.
The 424 is essentially Sir Alex's he had as Phelan as his assistant manager. If you look at Phelan's managerial career he has tried to implement them at various times since leaving United.
Mctominay and Fred are Cleverly and Anderson. Don't know if you remember that season. Bruno takes up similar positions to how Rooney did (Rooney tracked back a lot more though). Only difference is instead of Giggs and Nani its Inverted forwards like Greenwood and Rashford. But its pretty much the same principles.
Difference is back then we had Rio and Vida who could carry the load defensively (it's not like Cleverly and Anderson were Essien and Makalele) Cleverly and Anderson had energy got up and down (similarly to McFred) and to be fair to both of them they weren't world beaters but that period they were decent on the ball. Giggs and Nani would push up and Evra and Rafael would also push into more midfield roles. Rio and Vida could shoulder a lot of defensive responsibility - we can't do that currently, you really need top class CBs for it.
Phelan has failed trying to implement it as the gaffer in other teams. In anycase looks like we are playing a back 5 but, I reckon we will see them attempt 424 again, just hope the sort out the teething issues.
But if you go back and watch those old games with Cleverly/Anderson, you will recognise it instantly.
I completely agree. I feel Maguire is our weakest link at the moment at the back. And AWB doesn't have the attacking flair or confidence of Evra/Rafael. He backtracks more than he progresses forward most of the time.
There's a method to Ole's system but its failing because we just don't have the players required for it. And Ole being Ole, he doesn't really have a plan B.
I don't know if Utd are terribly coached but they play too many players out of position. 4231 has 5 midfielders and 1 striker. Utd mostly play forwards in the wide positions and it doesn't work. They could play a 433 but that would mean no Bruno because you need more solid central midfielders for that formation.
I think player recruitment has been absolutely awful. Utd have not bought well for the positions they need. How many forwards do they have? Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Greenwoon, Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad? These guys don't have the defensive acumen to play in an attacking midfield role. What an absolute mess!
Truth is Ole bought these forwards for a 433 but he is too scared to drop Bruno and his coaching team are too inept to teach a press.
I think player recruitment has been absolutely awful. Utd have not bought well for the positions they need. How many forwards do they have? Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Greenwoon, Cavani, Ronaldo, Amad? These guys don't have the defensive acumen to play in an attacking midfield role. What an absolute mess!
Truth is Ole bought these forwards for a 433 but he is too scared to drop Bruno and his coaching team are too inept to teach a press.
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Damn, there are so much of a nuts in here, its either that or they trolling, baiting others to get flagged.
We're never going to lose four, five or six games in a row. For a team with our individual level of talent in it to do that there'd almost have to be something deliberately sabotaged to make that happen. This is why the occasional 'we've beaten a terrible side (so terrible that it was the straw that broke the camel's back and the manager lost his job) - this is a new dawn, feck you haters' - will be a fast track to mediocrity.
The worst thing a club can do in our situation is peg everything on just-in-time results where we're willing to overlook utter dross as long as we scrape a decent away draw or occasionally beat a rival and we pretend the previous three games don't matter because 'we should all be happy with a good result' which usually leads to another run of poor performances and results that are again saved by a just-in-time decent result. We stagnate, even go backwards. But a sizeable portion of the fan base will always be happy with that. We could lose vs City, fail to take 3 points at Watford, get turned over by Villarreal but hold on to take a point at Stamford Bridge and immediately the previous three games won't matter because of a just-in-time to save the manager result will be all that counts "I hate our fans, we just took a point of Chelsea ffs, and the plastics think Ole doesn't know what he's doing"
That'll be the mantra/cycle until he goes.
The worst thing a club can do in our situation is peg everything on just-in-time results where we're willing to overlook utter dross as long as we scrape a decent away draw or occasionally beat a rival and we pretend the previous three games don't matter because 'we should all be happy with a good result' which usually leads to another run of poor performances and results that are again saved by a just-in-time decent result. We stagnate, even go backwards. But a sizeable portion of the fan base will always be happy with that. We could lose vs City, fail to take 3 points at Watford, get turned over by Villarreal but hold on to take a point at Stamford Bridge and immediately the previous three games won't matter because of a just-in-time to save the manager result will be all that counts "I hate our fans, we just took a point of Chelsea ffs, and the plastics think Ole doesn't know what he's doing"
That'll be the mantra/cycle until he goes.
I watched Ajax yesterday and they play the same system but they are light years ahead of us in general play.
Agree people are blinded by these last minute wins or snatching a point. However if Ole was competent and got tactics right we wouldn't be in such a hole in the first place. They get sent out with the wrong attitude. He is a lucky man that he does have players capable and now in Ronaldo the pride to not accept defeat. A slight drop in quality and he would be in big trouble.
Yes but it should be clear to board that this is not sustainable. I just hope recent changes in boardroom will identify the issue and take corrective measures. But i also feel match going fans need to show their displeasure. Mediocrity should never be accepted at United.
Ronaldo's doing what Bruno did the other season back- saving his bacon and compensating for the fact we play with no shape, discipline or tactical intention.
Definitely isn't sustainable. Problem with United is there are too many ex players, ex coaches who are so desperate for Ole to succeed, we would all like him to succeed, that they cannot see what is happening right before their eyes. He'll get it right this season, then OK he'll get it right next season. Just wait until he gets all the players he wants. A great coach can get great performances out of average players. I do not necessarily agree with booing during a game, but half time and at the end let rip. The Ole at the Wheel song does my head in. Sing for the players they are the ones who want support and encouragement, they are the ones being sent out there, not the guy looking at an Ipad in the dugout.
Is this surprising? Ole is a very poor coach, he genuinely is in the bottom barrel of the PL when it comes to coaching.
His tactical nous doesnt stretch much further than sit back and counter vs top teams, and go out and play vs the smaller teams. His squad talent keeps him in the job, he has not improved the style of play in 2 years and almost 11 months, absolutely nothing.
Precisely. Ole won't acknowledge this though. He will praise them, but he would never admit they are saving his job.
Why do people keep saying it isnt sustainable. Its kept Ole in a job for 3 years and saved him time after time after time. Yes its Ronaldo doing it now but before it was Fernandes and at other times Rashford or Pogba or Cavani or Greenwood or whoever. Its literally his M.O. He said it himself that he has been in these situations before and he likes the criticism. That says everything. He knows that over the course of the season there are winnable games and mater how sht the coaching is our top players will score goals. Individual brilliant goals. Its what we do. It has kept him in a job till now and it will keep him in the job for the foreseeable future. The worst coaching since Sir Alex but the most sustainable.
Did anyone see the letter on football365 recently, it said this:
".....two subs standing at the side of the pitch in the 80th minute (according to the commentary team the two players had not warmed up – Sancho and Van de Beek) and not make the change then have to wait until the 86th minute for the ball to go back out of play was negligent at best. But then to hear the £73m winger, one of the most promising young players in world football have to ask his coach, after 5 minutes of standing chatting on the sidelines remember, “Which side am I on” and for the TV mics to pick up the manager saying “Either, doesn’t matter” is utterly shameful." (Mangor United, Belfast)
Can this be true?
Surely he only needs to look at his shirt, to know......
".....two subs standing at the side of the pitch in the 80th minute (according to the commentary team the two players had not warmed up – Sancho and Van de Beek) and not make the change then have to wait until the 86th minute for the ball to go back out of play was negligent at best. But then to hear the £73m winger, one of the most promising young players in world football have to ask his coach, after 5 minutes of standing chatting on the sidelines remember, “Which side am I on” and for the TV mics to pick up the manager saying “Either, doesn’t matter” is utterly shameful." (Mangor United, Belfast)
Can this be true?
Surely he only needs to look at his shirt, to know......
This cant be real.