Scrapping the League Cup

[rcoobc]

The 7 (or sometimes 8) European teams enter in the Last 32.

You could change things round so that they enter in the Last 16, which saves one game, and scrap the two legged semis which saves a second game.

Effectively reducing it by 33% for the European teams.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Threads like this feel like a great example of why other football fans hate fans of the big clubs, due to a bit of a lack of awareness of anything outside the PL. Are you aware of the EFL Trophy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFL_Trophy

Totally agree.
Hadn't spotted your post before I wrote mine, but the lower league cup was already a bit crap. Then when they put u21 prem teams in it caused sheer revulsion for most fans and the gates are miniscule now. It was seen as a route to adding reserve teams into the league, totally killing 100 years of fighting to earn or keep a league place.

I support a big club and a small local club, and I hate fans who write off the league cup, especially clubs who very rarely win anything like Tottenham, who are simply just reducing their already miniscule chances of winning anything ever again.

Completely agree with both posts.

I was going to post very similar myself, but these posts have covered most of it.

 

[Kag]

Manchester United, irrespective of who actually gets on the pitch, turning up at MK Dons on a Tuesday night is a money spinner for clubs most in need. Some of you lot should probably familiarise yourself with the English football pyramid.

Our season is not remotely impeded by an extra cup competition and this applies to all Premier League clubs. I’m struggling to see a negative. Fringe players get match fitness; academy kids get some game time; proper football fans get to see their team up against the best teams in the country; tickets are more affordable and easier to get hold of in comparison to the Premier League meaning that young kids get their first taste of live football on the (relative) cheap.

Not to mention the fact that we’re shite and should be bloody grateful that we have another cup competition to get dumped out of every year. Lighten up.

 

[redshaw]

I don't mind the league cup and it can allow the bigger clubs to start youngsters or other players.

 

[Solius]

The League Cup prestigious? Sorry mate, it's not. It was Alan Hardaker's brainchild and was given a wide berth by many clubs - United included - for a long time until winning it meant a place in the old UEFA Cup. There's no comparison with the FA Cup which, although bereft of some of its glamour, is still the one to win.

I meant in relation to the EFL Cup.

 

[Speedy30]

I love the league cup. It's not an elite competition and you get hungry players who are keen to make an impression, so you get some good football too.
As experienced last night as well, every now and again, you get a brilliant game to watch and a great atmosphere to go with it. It's a fun competition and a day out at Wembley is always nice to have!

 

[Wilt]

It‘s not difficult….

1. Those clubs who are not interested in winning it, then don‘t play any 1st team. It’s a perfect opportunity to play the reserves and youngsters.

2. Those clubs who are genuinely not interested in playing in any form, should be given the opportunity of withdrawing beforehand. **Interesting to see who/if any would withdraw**

 

[McGrathsipan]

I’d make the league cup only for those not in European competition.

Yes I'd agree with this.

 

[Red00012]

They’re probably tied down to huge contracts at the moment with sponsors which means they can’t change anything immediately. I doubt Carabao would be too happy pulling PL teams from it

 

[duffer]

If teams really wanted to play fewer games, there's nothing stopping them from playing their kids/reserves in this.

 

[Gio]

Struggling to see what the problem is. For the big clubs it is an opportunity to bed youngsters and give a run out to their overly bloated squads. For everyone else it is a rare chance of some silverware.

 

[Plant0x84]

Does feel a bit like PL teams don’t take it seriously and field a reserves side, while lower league teams don’t take it seriously because they don’t expect to win it. If nobody is taking it seriously then what’s the point?
I wish the Euro places for top four would be redistributed to the cups so you actually have to win something to qualify for Europe. Doesn’t really help fixture congestion though….

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Struggling to see what the problem is. For the big clubs it is an opportunity to bed youngsters and give a run out to their overly bloated squads. For everyone else it is a rare chance of some silverware.

There shouldn't be a 'problem.' You'd think what you've described should really be the prevailing attitude amongst the majority of the clubs and their fans.

However, nowadays, most clubs, at all levels, seem to regard the early rounds of the League Cup, and EFL Trophy, as an unwanted inconvenience - except as a chance to blood youngsters and squad players - and only start treating them serious with strong team selections if their changed starting XI's manage to reach the later rounds. And those that take them seriously from the start are the exceptions rather than the norm.

I understand (but don't agree with) why managers do it. They know they're only really judged on league placings and so, so long as they're doing well in the league, then getting knocked out of cups early won't matter. But if they're struggling in the league, then a cup run will rarely save their jobs. Therefore, they prioritise the league games either side of the cup matches and rotate for the cup as that's the bonus 'nice if we win, not a big blow if we lose' game.

For as long as that attitude is also the prevailing one amongst fans, owners, and media, then, unfortunately, most managers will continue to rotate for the cups and focus on as high a league placing as possible for job security - rather than prioritise going for a rare piece of silverware. And the growing calls to abandon the 2nd (and 3rd) cups - already present before covid but gathering further pace now - will, sadly, continue.

 

[Kasper]

No organization is willingly giving up a cash cow even if its not super big. The PL clubs should push for no replay, no two legged semifinals and just jog on, if they don't care just send out the kids.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

EFL Trophy is already a cup for the top two tiers to play their U23s against full strength League 1 and 2 clubs. No need to convert the EFL Cup into that too. Just axe it like other leagues have and maybe flesh out the EFL trophy to include all PL and Championship U23s (as I believe it's currently only 16 teams amongst all of tier 3 and 4?)

Though I suspect that wouldn't go down well with EFL clubs given how they have resisted B-teams in the football league, so maybe not.

 

[Gio]

There shouldn't be a 'problem.' You'd think what you've described should really be the prevailing attitude amongst the majority of the clubs and their fans.

However, nowadays, most clubs, at all levels, seem to regard the early rounds of the League Cup, and EFL Trophy, as an unwanted inconvenience - except as a chance to blood youngsters and squad players - and only start treating them serious with strong team selections if their changed starting XI's manage to reach the later rounds. And those that take them seriously from the start are the exceptions rather than the norm.

I understand (but don't agree with) why managers do it. They know they're only really judged on league placings and so, so long as they're doing well in the league, then getting knocked out of cups early won't matter. But if they're struggling in the league, then a cup run will rarely save their jobs. Therefore, they prioritise the league games either side of the cup matches and rotate for the cup as that's the bonus 'nice if we win, not a big blow if we lose' game.

For as long as that attitude is also the prevailing one amongst fans, owners, and media, then, unfortunately, most managers will continue to rotate for the cups and focus on as high a league placing as possible for job security - rather than prioritise going for a rare piece of silverware. And the growing calls to abandon the 2nd (and 3rd) cups - already present before covid but gathering further pace now - will, sadly, continue.

Indeed. It can be argued that it has been convenient for the traditional big 4-6 clubs to have the tournament to give a run out to those players. It would be harder to keep the big squads happy without the League Cup offering up a handful of fixtures every year, which can be padded out with a couple of dead-rubber CL or Europa League ties, and the occasional league appearance to cover for injuries. Like you I don't think that serves the interests of the wider game, as it dilutes a trophy and only helps to encourage the pooling of talent in a handful of clubs.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Manchester United, irrespective of who actually gets on the pitch, turning up at MK Dons on a Tuesday night is a money spinner for clubs most in need. Some of you lot should probably familiarise yourself with the English football pyramid.

Our season is not remotely impeded by an extra cup competition and this applies to all Premier League clubs. I’m struggling to see a negative. Fringe players get match fitness; academy kids get some game time; proper football fans get to see their team up against the best teams in the country; tickets are more affordable and easier to get hold of in comparison to the Premier League meaning that young kids get their first taste of live football on the (relative) cheap.

Not to mention the fact that we’re shite and should be bloody grateful that we have another cup competition to get dumped out of every year. Lighten up.

this.

@Solius you should know better! You’re a football manager gamer. The league cup is important for us players to blood our 17 year old regens.

 

[Born2Lose]

A fairer distribution of the PL money over all the lower leagues to soften the blow and I'd be perfectly happy to see the it scrapped.

Can't blame any team outside the PL for opposing it being stopped the way things are currently.

 

[Manny]

Its fine. It adds much needed game time for back ups and reserves, and experience for youngsters.

 

[Cascarino]

Should be for teams not in the European cups and not because of elitism but to actually give other teams a chance to win the thing.

It's only been won by 4 non-elite teams in the past 20 teams*. Last time Swansea in 2013.

*5 if we include Spurs

I quite like this idea, many of the clubs have nothing to play for but survival, it’d nice to give some of the weaker clubs a chance at silverware.

I guess the downside is that many of the weaker clubs play weakened teams as the league is so important.

 

[crossy1686]

The league cup is a good competition and doesn’t deserve the hate it gets.

If the final was held at the end of the season I suspect people would feel a lot differently about scrapping it.

 

[Reditus]

It’s very useful for giving youth a shot also players in need of 1st team football

I really never seen the issue with it.

 

[elmo]

Eh? It's a domestic competition. UEFA and FIFA don't set the rules for it.

He means FIFA will find some way to make the break in fixtures to fit in yet another international fixture.

The FA would love it.

 

[Dave Smith]

Why scrap it? UEFA or FIFA will just throw in another competition anyway.

Exactly this. People forget that the main reason for the CL moving away from the two group format was to create some space and pretty much immediately after FIFA introduced more international windows.

What is even worse is that UEFA are now expanding again and moving to the Swiss model which will just mean even more dead rubber games as you can be sure they'll still use seedings so the big teams don't run a serious risk of getting KO in the group/league format.

That particularly annoys me as the second group stage of 16 was pretty good as you got some serious groups and matches put together.

I don’t see why it should be scrapped. It’s an extra chance for silverware and you don’t need to play your senior players. Your reserves/youth players get the chance to impress and get competitive match practice. Can’t really see much downside.

This. However, too many people worship at the feet of a top 4 place that they value that over winning something.

Threads like this feel like a great example of why other football fans hate fans of the big clubs, due to a bit of a lack of awareness of anything outside the PL. Are you aware of the EFL Trophy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFL_Trophy

Exactly this. The EFL Cup brings in a lot of revenue for the small teams in the lower leagues. This should be supported, especially as we had all that Super League nonsense earlier this year.

 

[mancsarered]

I’d make the league cup only for those not in European competition.

Tottenham would love this. Sure way to get their hands on a trophy... unless the Conference League actually counts as European competition

 

[hasanejaz88]

It's a useless competition that teams at the top of the Prem don't care for. It makes no sense as there is already a domestic cup in the FA Cup. Spain, Germany and Italy all have one domestic cup and league.

Piles on more matches and is redundant.

 

[MancunianAngels]

No. Its 6 extra games if you get to the final. That's nothing.

 

[UpWithRivers]

There is the perspective of the top clubs - Its not worth it. And then there is everyone else. For 14 plus prem clubs it could be there only chance of a trophy. For lower league clubs it is a financial lifeline plus its an opportunity of a lifetime for lower league players to play the big teams. How many of them retire with the one of the major highlights being they played at old trafford etc. They will remember it and talk about it till they die. Its one of the beautiful things of English football which we are forgetting with all the money. So no dont scrap it. The top five in European football can just play the youngsters if need be. They should also allow the Assistant Coach or reserve coach or whoever they want to manage and that can leave the manager and the first team completely out of it concentrating on Europe / Prem / FA Cup

 

[Maluco]

Less chance of silverware and fewer opportunities for smaller teams to host the bigger league clubs isn’t the answer. We shouldn’t be cutting tournaments.

The bigger teams should be more responsible with their squads and rotate their players accordingly.

 

[tentan]

The under 23s idea is a good one. Or maybe you're allowed three over 23s in the team - a bit like the olympics.

 

[Mickson]

Do you guys hate football, you don't want to see football? That's fine by me, you can start watching American football or something but let us who enjoy football have the League Cup.

 

[DixieDean]

Should have been scrapped years ago. Just give lower league clubs more of the TV deal to make up for the shortfall. It's crap and a waste of time.

Oh, and the PL should be 18 teams, as well. Then you can have a nice 3 week break after new years day games.

 

[R'hllor]

So certain clubs dont care about this cup so want it scrapped but care enough not to use under 23 squads for it when they in it, interesting.

 

[PoTMS]

Get rid of it. Who wants to watch fringe players play against each other. Only gets interesting at the semi-final stage and even then it's not got the lustre of the other cups.

 

[FootballHQ]

I love the league cup. It's not an elite competition and you get hungry players who are keen to make an impression, so you get some good football too.
As experienced last night as well, every now and again, you get a brilliant game to watch and a great atmosphere to go with it. It's a fun competition and a day out at Wembley is always nice to have!

I agree.

I think at least until you get to last four in many ways it's a better visual watch than FA cup nowadays, better draws, more exciting games with motivated players (whereas FA cup still has stigma of matches being lessened by B teams being put out) and also settled on the night with drama of penalties.

If teams in europe don't want to play in it anymore then just don't enter it. I doubt fans of Villa, Everton, Leeds and Spurs would care about that if they're finally lifting some long overdue silverware at Wembley.

And competition is also wrapped up by March so dosen't even get in way of late season congestion like FA cup tends to nowadays.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yeah, lets cancel LC. Then lets cancel FA cup too in a,few years. Then lets cut PL from 20 to 16 then 14 and then 12 clubs.
Who needs football games anyway?

 

[Zaphod2319]

I enjoy it. I wonder how many people that feel their clubs are wasting their time with it actually watch before the 4th round?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Yeah, lets cancel LC. Then lets cancel FA cup too in a,few years. Then lets cut PL from 20 to 16 then 14 and then 12 clubs.
Who needs football games anyway?

And then maybe invite some teams from Spain, Italy.. maybe Bayern?

 

[Lastwolf]

Should be for teams not in the European cups and not because of elitism but to actually give other teams a chance to win the thing.

It's only been won by 4 non-elite teams in the past 20 teams*. Last time Swansea in 2013.

*5 if we include Spurs

I think it should be scrapped but this is a nice solution.

 

[lex talionis]

Scrap or or keep it, few will be bothered either way. But if it is kept then a restriction of some kind should be imposed on the top six PL clubs in terms of who they can field. Maybe an age or lifetime PL appearances limit, or something else that might make more sense.

Make it a true cup competition, not a ritual animal sacrifice.