Ragnick should play the kids

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

He isnt judging on one game though the posted you quoted I would have thought.

Jones, Lingard and I believe Pereira have been here when Ferguson was still in charge, pure madness, could barely put together a season of good performances between the three of them

Mata I believe at the time was a club record signing from Moyes time in charge. As much as I like his personality and loyalty, again what has he done in his time here, how is he still here when clearly he is past his best, which did nothing to warrant a record signing

Luke Shaw was a Van Gaal signing, he is a bit of an exception as he had his injuries in which he had a great spell before and he was very good last season, but even he has been here a long time now and shown no consistency. Remember he was a record for an English teenager or something at the time. Maybe beingn a bit harsh there but MArtial was an absolutely huge signing under Van Gaal and had a Ballon Dor clause in his contract wich is laughable now, how is he still here?

And remember we are pretty much a good three seasons now since Mourinhos last games at the club, yet there are still a whle host of players from his time at the club Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot and Fred cost us £130m odd none have really exceeded average at best. The only one still here who I think did well was Matic whose legs went a long time ago and I wont even go into club record signing Pogba who is still here and now likely to leave on a free.

Thats twelve players who have been here all before Ole took over up to nearly eight seasons ago, over half of them shouldnt be here without doubt for me yet over 2/3 of them are still gettign regular playing time and 1/3 of them are regular starters.

And this isnt even bring up some of the youth bought into the club via Van Gaal and Mourinho who are starters and should be no more than valuable squad members in my opinion.

So for me, yes there are a lot of players should be looked at in this squad who hav ebeen here a while as well os Ole signings for me. Gettign rid of players not good enough to wear the jersey and gettign rid of players who maybe are but hav enever shown any cnsitency over a few seasons to warrant it either is paramount to me. We have been poor moving players on quick enough in numbers, partly as we have made bad signings replacing them and its been a bit of a cycle.

I do agree with you that throwing kids in now isnt the answer though

This isn't really the same thing. You're listing players that have been here for a while despite not being good enough, the OP is talking about "these players" getting the manager sacked because they just can't be arsed to put a shift in - Jones, Lingard, Pereira and Mata are complete non-entities in this team and they were all peripheral (at the very best) under Mourinho and Van Gaal, they're hardly the ones people point to when talking about this nebulous "rotten core" we've supposedly had for years undermining multiple managers. If I had to guess, that core would include Pogba, Shaw, Martial and Rashford.

Which is why I wanted to point out that none of those 4 guys have been constants in the team for the first half of this season. It's an extremely lazy narrative.

 

[alexthelion]

Otherwise this lot will get him sacked in six months time.

Getting dominated by fecking norwich and newcastle is on the players, watch them get dominated again against another relegation team in burnley in a couple of days. No coach or manager in the world can do anything (except benching them) if the players can't string together simple passes or be arsed to fight for the ball against teams in the bottom of the table .

Elanga, diallo, hannibal, mengi and shoretire should all find a place in the starting team and on the bench.

Even if we lose a few games atleast we'll see some desire and fight and we'll know who to ship next season and areas to be improved.

and dare i say ronaldo should be coming off the bench in the last half hour as am impact sub against a tired defense.

Shocker! GNev talking sense fopr once.

 

[kiristao]

How many of our players got COVID?

I remember Salah after he got it, he looked like he was finished at this level, and a month later he was superb again

I'm suprised this isn't talked about more, most of the players looked SEVERELY unfit yesterday. McTominay looked knackered in the first half already.

I want to give the players the benefit of doubt but I can't simply because it's not like these players were all running themselves to the ground until this Covid outbreak 2 weeks ago.
The lack of intensity and hardwork has been our main issue for a long long time now.

 

[RedSky]

Can't wait for the majority on here complaining and tearing the kids to pieces because they don't put in 7/10 performances each game.

Not a good suggestion.

 

[Yagami]

Can't wait for the majority on here complaining and tearing the kids to pieces because they don't put in 7/10 performances each game.

Not a good suggestion.

I think it is. When you think of the many terrible seasons we've had after Fergie, a promoted youth player has brought some joy in otherwise terrible seasons for a few of them.

Januzaj in 13/14
Rashford in 15/16
Greenwood in 19/20

We're most likely not winning anything again this season, and we may not even get top 4 at this rate, so something like Mejbri (or Galbraith for me) getting a run is at least something to enjoy like with the aforementioned players in their seasons.

 

[TMDaines]

Otherwise this lot will get him sacked in six months time.

Getting dominated by fecking norwich and newcastle is on the players, watch them get dominated again against another relegation team in burnley in a couple of days. No coach or manager in the world can do anything (except benching them) if the players can't string together simple passes or be arsed to fight for the ball against teams in the bottom of the table .

Elanga, diallo, hannibal, mengi and shoretire should all find a place in the starting team and on the bench.

Even if we lose a few games atleast we'll see some desire and fight and we'll know who to ship next season and areas to be improved.

and dare i say ronaldo should be coming off the bench in the last half hour as am impact sub against a tired defense.

Did you watch the Young Boys match?

 

[Sandikan]

Otherwise this lot will get him sacked in six months time.

He's got a 6 month contract as manager, maximum.

 

[jesperjaap]

This isn't really the same thing. You're listing players that have been here for a while despite not being good enough, the OP is talking about "these players" getting the manager sacked because they just can't be arsed to put a shift in - Jones, Lingard, Pereira and Mata are complete non-entities in this team and they were all peripheral (at the very best) under Mourinho and Van Gaal, they're hardly the ones people point to when talking about this nebulous "rotten core" we've supposedly had for years undermining multiple managers. If I had to guess, that core would include Pogba, Shaw, Martial and Rashford.

Which is why I wanted to point out that none of those 4 guys have been constants in the team for the first half of this season. It's an extremely lazy narrative.

First point I would agree with.....which makes it all the crazier they are still here and half of them had new contracts in the last couple of years, madness.

You mention a core of four players, three of them are starters but for injuries this season too. The main point though is we are not talking about the first half of this season, we are talkign about several seasons, especially the Mouinho period, he wanted to sell all those players bar Rashford, its not even about the rotten players though, its about players under performing and showing no consistency under 2-3-4 managers here and there are others that can be added to that without question

 

[siw2007]

I want to see Elanga get some game time over this busy period. Would be good to see him start against Burnley. In general, best not to play too many of them at once, let’s blood in Elanga first and maybe another at a later date like Hannibal or maybe Mengi.

 

[wolvored]

This was never going to happen though. You don't come into a new club, try and implement a new style and new system and not bothering playing any of what are your senior players.

I am sure RR will give all of the senior squad a chance to get to grips with the new style before reverting to such drastic measures

Its how long its going to take though. They looked as far off it last night than any other game, against a bottom 3 team. Its a catch 22 situation. Thats why we should look to the transfer market for at least 2 midfielders.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

First point I would agree with.....which makes it all the crazier they are still here and half of them had new contracts in the last couple of years, madness.

You mention a core of four players, three of them are starters but for injuries this season too. The main point though is we are not talking about the first half of this season, we are talkign about several seasons, especially the Mouinho period, he wanted to sell all those players bar Rashford, its not even about the rotten players though, its about players under performing and showing no consistency under 2-3-4 managers here and there are others that can be added to that without question

And each of the four has been among our best players at various points since we got rid of Mourinho (Shaw in 20/21, Rashford and Martial in 19/20, Pogba in 18/19). Which gets brushed under the carpet when they're getting ripped to shreds by the likes of Neville and Keane for getting managers sacked.

Have any of them been consistently great, or even good? No. Is that enough reason to assume they all have attitude problems and can't be motivated to play for the manager and repeatedly down tools? No. All it tells us is that they're inconsistent. And again, the reason I'm focusing on this season is because Neville's been talking this bollocks for months while none of them have even played - so I can only assume he means De Gea, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Maguire, Sancho and Fernandes are all throwing their managers under the bus too.

You're arguing a different point to the one the OP made (and I responded to).

 

[croadyman]

They would certainly put in more workrate than the majority of the current squad

 

[GL21]

DeGea enough said

AWB solid defensively get back to basics
Varane won everything in the game
Slab but don't leave the box
Shaw if he replicates England form

McT lacking confidence but 100% grit, effort etc
VDB need some link between lines
Hannibal if he's good enough he's old enough

Sancho hasn't morphed into lingard yet
Cavani work rate
Greenwood learn from Edi

Ronaldo settles for bit part cameos instead of Cavani however very unlikely and will go.
Bruno and rashford need extensive bench time to rediscover desire.
Dalot, telles, Elanga, mengi, diallo, shoretire, galbraith, bring back Garner, all chomping at the bit.
Fred beg shaktar to take him back you've had your fun

 

[tomaldinho1]

This is the kind of idea that sounds good but is basically playing fantasy football with reality. No we should not play the kids in the PL, we’d get torn apart.

I do think RR will play any youth he thinks could have a future but from why we’ve seen few are ready or an upgrade on what we have. We’ve barely had any training sessions because of covid, we really need to chill a bit as a fan base. The game was awful but it’s so early doors and there’s no reason to assume we’re doomed yet.

 

[hungrywing]

“If you're afraid of getting a rotten apple, don't go to the barrel. Get it off the tree."

- James Bond/Henry Jones Sr.

 

[Bilbo]

Young players breaking through is the thing that probably excites me the most in football, but in reality we haven't seen enough from any of our youth to suggest that throwing them into the team now is the right decision. Amad looks to have the tools to be a top player but he is severely lacking in actual minutes on any pitch so a loan could do him the world of good. Same with Elanga.

 

[stevoc]

Otherwise this lot will get him sacked in six months time.

Eh, he won't be manager in 6 months time either way.

 

[stevoc]

I agree that we should mix up the selection. but the tactics and coaching have clearly been poor too, so ralf needs to improve that quickly if we are to stay in in touching distance of fourth. his main job as interim is to get us fourth, not to overhaul, that should be obvious but doesn't seem obvious to everyone

Indeed I expect it on here but I have a nagging fear that Ralf himself doesn't realize it. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[ForeverRed1]

I’d like to see donny get a shot and bailley aswell.

 

[stevoc]

I’d like to see donny get a shot and bailley aswell.

There must be a reason Donny isn't playing surely?

Many on here thought Ole wasn't being fair to him but Ralf's came in and clearly not liked what he's seen either. I'd like to see him play more too but only if we switch to a 433.

 

[Champ]

There must be a reason Donny isn't playing surely?

Many on here thought Ole wasn't being fair to him but Ralf's came in and clearly not liked what he's seen either. I'd like to see him play more too but only if we switch to a 433.

He's not good enough?

It really is the only reason.

 

[Bestofthebest]

64.1% of possession isn't being dominated. We played badly and there were lots of individual errors, but certainly not dominated.

There is a huge difference between possession and dominance. Despite having the majority of possession we were certainly dominated by Newcastle.

 

[ForeverRed1]

There must be a reason Donny isn't playing surely?

Many on here thought Ole wasn't being fair to him but Ralf's came in and clearly not liked what he's seen either. I'd like to see him play more too but only if we switch to a 433.

ralfs kept the team pretty much the same which has been abit of a suprise, eye opening actually.

 

[stevoc]

He's not good enough?

It really is the only reason.

I wouldn't say he's not good enough but there may be an attitude problem behind the scenes. And/or both Ole and Ralf decided very quickly he's not suited to playing as a central midfielder in a 2.

 

[stevoc]

ralfs kept the team pretty much the same which has been abit of a suprise, eye opening actually.

Is it a surprise though?

I mean he has changed the fullbacks and formation but other than that yeah he's largely making the same selections as Ole. Probably because there wasn't much wrong with Solskjaer's selections he was basically playing our best team. it was obviously other areas he was failing in.

 

[Mr.Plow]

If we had a good academy then maybe this would be viable. How many first team players have we even produced in the past 20 years? I've been watching regularly since 2004 and Rashford and Greenwood are as good as it gets.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Disagree. I actually think that our academy products in recent years mostly lack fighters mentality and are not dedicated enough to winning, you can see hannibal, chong, garner, elanga are not "fighter" type of players

neither are our 1st team graduates like pogba, rashford, greenwood, mctominay, pereira, brandon williams well known for their "never die" fight spirit.

something wrong in the culture of our academy, like our first team

 

[Mr PG]

VDB isn't a central midfielder....not in a million years and isn't even close to Bruno as a no 10 so I hope people can give this VDB thing a rest. 3 coaches have now benched him.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Didn't he play the kids the other week in that meaningless Champions League game and people lost their shit because of it. Also, it was a pretty bad performance if I remember correctly.

 

[SouthernRedDev]

I expect its pretty hard for him to judge or access the squad, he's come in at a time where there is very little time to train, with back to back fixtures, shutdowns, covid illness, and soon to be further schedule congestion. It could take near 2-3 months of his 6 month term to really get any meaningful training time with the players. He has some reference with the current starting 11, the others in the squad are a bit of a shot In the dark.

 

[lex talionis]

A kid, sure, but surely not multiple kids. Not now at least.

 

[Frank Grimes]

One idiot says something then the other idiots jump straight on it. No we definitely should not play the kids. Never heard such rubbish.

People need to realise that Rangnick has had no time to implement anything yet. Come back to me in 2 months and see how we are looking.

 

[SAFMUTD]

The kids should be easy up into the team, throwing a bunch of them at the same time will only result in poorer performances more criticism and with their confidence shattered.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Not kid kids, but Sancho Greenwood and Amad definitely. Don't really like the idea that this season for Sancho and Greenwood may just be one of filling gaps around the three seeming untouchables, can't know Rangnicks plans for sure though

 

[jesperjaap]

This isn't really the same thing. You're listing players that have been here for a while despite not being good enough, the OP is talking about "these players" getting the manager sacked because they just can't be arsed to put a shift in - Jones, Lingard, Pereira and Mata are complete non-entities in this team and they were all peripheral (at the very best) under Mourinho and Van Gaal, they're hardly the ones people point to when talking about this nebulous "rotten core" we've supposedly had for years undermining multiple managers. If I had to guess, that core would include Pogba, Shaw, Martial and Rashford.

Which is why I wanted to point out that none of those 4 guys have been constants in the team for the first half of this season. It's an extremely lazy narrative.

Not at all, I am naming them as players shouldnt be here in a bloated squad that are part of the problem. If you want me to name players who have been poorfor some time I could name most of the side.

Lets be honest. excluding sigins of Ole, regulars.... McTominay is for me a valuable squad player that simply shouldnt be starting every week, Fred has been here three seasons I think now and has never been anywhere near good enough yet is still backed by many as doing a good job, Rashford has got important goals but bar his initial breakthrough hasnt consistently done anything on the pitch to warrant his popularity, Pogba despite his ability has been here years and only had two proper periods lasting a couple of months of the expeced levels of performance, same for Martial.

Really only DeGea and Shaw have done enough from current consistent startres (excluding injury) to warrant appreciation as proper players for our club, and with Shaw thats onyl the last 15months or so and with DeGea its the last 9 months after 2/3 poor years and then Lindlof is getting appreciation despite never rising above the level of being an average defender and thats only the last 9months.

So we have as you would put it the rotten players, but we also have a whole host of players within the squad who havent and arent doign enough or are simply not good enough and a fair few of them have been here for several season, so yes, that is all a part of the problem

 

[mav_9me]

I am hoping he is waiting to figure out who he can trust and who not to trust and in due course Mejbri will get some game time. Am surprised Amad hasn't even seen the bench. Maybe he is not ready either.

 

[Marquee Moon]

I'm not sure where Mejbri would fit. He's not really a genuine central midfielder that operates box to box, but more of an attacking midfielder. If he slotted into the formation that was utilised against Burnley, it could only be on the right hand side of the attack, where he played for Algeria. He's probably best suited in a position or role similar to the ones Pogba & Van de Beek are accustomed to. Which makes his inclusion problematic. I'm thinking we could release Pogba & VDB in the summer and replace them with Mejbri and a proper #6. I'm not really insistent on that point, but I would probably do it. He deserves a shot soon because he's been excellent for some time now despite all the reservations about his temperament.
I'm generally inclined to err on the side of playing youngsters, but I'm not sure if any of the others are ready to break in at this juncture.
Likewise if we released Rashford and Martial in the summer, then maybe Shoretire could be upgraded, but that's drawing a long bow.
Maybe Mengi could join our contingent of centre backs in the summer, but I'm not convinced he's good enough. Don't get me wrong, I just don't know.
We've heard good things about Mainoo and Hansen, but surely they must be 12 or 18 months away.
It's interesting that we paid so much for Diallo, but we've hardly seen him. I'm guessing that Solksjaer wasn't behind the decision to buy him. He should be thrown in probably, because he's an expensive commodity and we need to know what he is exactly. We just need to know. Otherwise he's just going to drift along like deadwood, and as we all know, we have enough of that already.

 

[VidaRed]

After seeing arsenal kids putting up a good show against city shouldn't we try it out ? They got rid of there high earning out of form prima donnas.

Young players are eager to follow the coaches directions and play according to a system, it takes a while but it pays off in the end.

 

[roseguy64]

After seeing arsenal kids putting up a good show against city shouldn't we try it out ? They got rid of there high earning out of form prima donnas.

Young players are eager to follow the coaches directions and play according to a system, it takes a while but it pays off in the end.

None of the young players have shown enough to risk putting them in as starters compared to what Saka did. Also, Smith-Rowe performed when he got his chances and got rewarded. Martinelli has been in their squad for a couple years now before getting regular starts.

It's not like they Arteta just randomly played the youth. They showed they deserved the chances.

None of the Man Utd youth players have shown that yet. Elanga's the closest and then Amad.

 

[JebelSherif]

and dare i say ronaldo should be coming off the bench in the last half hour as am impact sub against a tired defense.

I don't think it is actually in his contract that he has to start games, but towards the end of Ole's time it was the defacto position because SAF had criticised the manager (I think the Everton game) for not starting him

People need to remember who is still pulling the strings at Manchester Utd.

P.S. Has Rangnick had the balls to park in the slot marked 'Manager' or like Ole does he leave it free for Sir Alex.... or is there a new space for 'interim manager/future consultant'?