I’d like to see Mejbri get a start against Villa, with the shitstorm around United at the minute and the fecking babies we currently have in the squad, if he has a good game it could be a seminal moment for him at the club .
Ragnick should play the kids
- Thread starter VidaRed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Henderson wants to leave.
Surely we can't bench ddg on current form, he's literally saved us 10 points this season otherwise we'd be right above the relegation scrap.
He's with Tunisia.
He really hasn't. He's a good shot stopper but the major flaws in his game vastly outweigh the positives, to be honest I can't be bothered getting back into it.
I'm not exactly advocating the idea of throwing the younger players in, but if you are doing that then Henderson is one of the first ones you throw in.
We'd be much worse off without DDG in our team this year, yes he has his flaws and isn't the most well rounded keeper but he has certainly staked his claim this year. He is only one of maybe three players who can hold their heads high this season. Benching him for Henderson (an inferior keeper) would be ridiculous.
All of the problems with this current team and people are still suggesting Dean fecking Henderson?
Of course, afcon.
Ya right. Because we are looking to lower the team quality here.
He only has 6 months anyway, but I get what you mean. This bunch will get whoever they want sacked, They have brought this " Players Rule" thing to the club now and they must be cleared out and hope that other clubs take notice.
DDG is conceding on average 1.5 goals per game. Pretty much the same as last season, even though he's apparently having a great season, his performance levels this season aren't actually that much better than last season.
Last season with Henderson in goal with the same players in front of him as DDG, that figure of average goals conceded was halved. As a result on average the team conceded less goals and won more games and kept more clean sheets with Henderson playing.
But somehow he's not as good and would be reducing the quality of the team.
A lot of our fans are idiots mate.
Degea back to his best this season. One of a few who can hold his head up high. Can't fault his commitment.......be even came back to training early to get himself ready
Surely you know the reason of this one?
Henderson barely played as much games and certainly didn't play as many games against harder opposition. Got lot of cup and Europa League matches. I thought that would be obvious.
I'm actually amazed degea goal conceded stat is similar this season. If anything prob showing how good he been considering our defending this season has been the worse as I've ever seen it. Comedy show at times. Maguire playing like a Sunday league player
Yeah, it is simply because he is just a better all round keeper that suits how the team should be playing. The same reasons Simon plays for Spain and amazingly they do better without DDG also.
Henderson played 10 less games than DDG last season, kept the same amount of clean sheets and in 10 less games Utd won 1 less game with him in goal, 17 out of 26 comapred to 18 out of 36. He also outperformed DDG in almost every metric.
https://fbref.com/en/squads/19538871/2020-2021/all_comps/Manchester-United-Stats-All-Competitions
| Player | Nation | Pos | Age | MP | Starts | Min | 90s | GA | GA90 | SoTA | Saves | Save% | W | D | L | CS | CS% | PKatt | PKA | PKsv | PKm | Save% | ||||||||
| David de Gea | es ESP | GK | 29 | 36 | 36 | 3,225 | 35.8 | 46 | 1.28 | 126 | 88 | 67.5 | 18 | 10 | 8 | 12 | 33.3 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||||
| Dean Henderson | eng ENG | GK | 23 | 26 | 25 | 2,325 | 25.8 | 22 | 0.85 | 90 | 68 | 75.6 | 17 | 4 | 4 | 12 | 48 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | ||||||||
| Goals | Expected | Launched | Passes | Goal Kicks | Crosses | Sweeper | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Player | Nation | Pos | Age | 90s | GA | PKA | FK | CK | OG | PSxG | PSxG/SoT | PSxG+/- | /90 | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Att | Thr | Launch% | AvgLen | Att | Launch% | AvgLen | Opp | Stp | Stp% | #OPA | #OPA/90 | AvgDist | Matches |
| David de Gea | es ESP | GK | 29 | 36 | 46 | 5 | 2 | 6 | 4 | 43.5 | 0.31 | 1.5 | 0 | 144 | 321 | 44.9 | 602 | 118 | 37.7 | 34.7 | 256 | 36.7 | 34 | 267 | 12 | 4.5 | 15 | 0.42 | 14.1 | Matches |
| Dean Henderson | eng ENG | GK | 23 | 26 | 22 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 15 | 0.24 | 0 | 0 | 60 | 158 | 38 | 332 | 88 | 35.8 | 35.9 | 123 | 31.7 | 33.1 | 137 | 13 | 9.5 | 18 | 1.03 | 14.7 | Matches |
It would probably help if you watched the game rather than just read numbers then. De Gea has been in fantastic form this season, he may well have some weaknesses but they haven't been prevalent this season so your argument is ridiculous.
I'm sure he will get a chance on his return.
I do watch the games, "fantastic form" meaning he is actually conceding more goals than he did last season when he was really noticeably playing so poorly. The only difference this season is he has made some saves that he wasn't making for about 3 years. But he's still dog shit at everything else.
What I see with DDG is a weak reactive keeper who retreats to the safety of his line/6 yard box as a default. Who doesn't command his box or back 4, can't/won't/doesn't sweep or come for crosses anywhere near enough even when they come into the 6 yard box, has poor distribution and plays so deep it sucks the whole team back 20 or 30 yards. Which affects how high the team can defend and press to win the ball back and ultimately how quickly turnovers can be turned into chances. It also has an impact how much of a gap there is between the defence and the forwards and how the whole teams moves up and down the pitch as a unit. There is no way RR can play a high press with a central defender who turns and moves as slow as Maguire and a keeper who plays as deep and cowardly as DDG.
Just answer me this.
Why does he not play for Spain? Why does Enrique choose to play a "weaker" keeper in Simon?
Literally the whole point of this thread is lowering the quality of the team. It's about throwing younger, completely unproven players in instead of the older players and in terms of our "younger players", how many of them are more PL ready than Henderson who has already played a full season at the level and a good portion of last season for us (during which time our team was able to defend higher up the pitch & as such won more games and conceded less goals).
I did a breakdown a few weeks ago of the number of goals DDG should have done better with in the October/November/Arsenal games and frankly for a goalkeeper at the top level, certainly one supposedly "back to his best" it was fecking embarrassing. He's a very good shot stopper and literally nothing else which you cannot get away with in the modern game.
I think you also have to factor in how are playing this term, we are considerably less efficient and are constantly getting shown up. This is not down to De Gea. I think a more apt measurement would be the number of shots (and quality of those shots) that DDG has faced so far this season compared to last and compare his save %. It's not as easy as saying he's conceded X amount per game when our defence has been absolutely pi** poor.
I'm aware of the purpose of the thread and I am disagreeing that we should just exchange everyone for all the youngsters,this would be disastrous and out of all of our senior pros DDG is the least deserving of getting dropped. I agree regarding that out of the youngsters Henderson is probably most ready but he's up against one of our best players this season. There's also saves that other keepers would not have made, DDG has not been helped with his defence this season at all.
Since we have nothing to play for this season there's not going to be a better time to play the kids.
Maguire, rashford and lingard should not play a min more this season.
Maguire, rashford and lingard should not play a min more this season.
Who? Mejbri? Who else?
We cannot sink any lower.
Arsenal (Jesus fecking wept) will beat us to 4th
So just play the kids do something different this is painful
Arsenal (Jesus fecking wept) will beat us to 4th
So just play the kids do something different this is painful
Barely any of them are close to ready.
Do we really gain anything in our performances if we start McNeil over Cavani or Ronaldo or Mejbri over Fernandes or Pogba? I'm interested in the left-back Fernandez though.
Do we really gain anything in our performances if we start McNeil over Cavani or Ronaldo or Mejbri over Fernandes or Pogba? I'm interested in the left-back Fernandez though.
Does anyone think Ralf plays all the guys who constantly let us down to build evidence in the summer to say ‘look I give them chance after chance and they never seized any of them so what chance have they got for anyone else?’, leading to subsequent sales and new players being bought.
u18 team are in the Cup final. I'm sure some of them would play better than some of our first teamers.
No, think about what you're saying mate, why would he sacrifice points and big games to cost our team. He plays these players because he expects them to perform - probably why Rashford and Pogba were dropped in the first place.
The problem is 4th isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Arsenal are well capable of slipping up. The more unlikely thing is us taking advantage, of course, but that Arsenal might is probably reason enough that the manager isn't going to completely throw things. He's still going to pick what he thinks are the strongest lineups.
I would like to see standouts like Mejbri. I wouldn't like to see random players that aren't good enough just to make some unknown point. I don't think it does anyone any good.
I would like to see standouts like Mejbri. I wouldn't like to see random players that aren't good enough just to make some unknown point. I don't think it does anyone any good.
They’re not. Throwing them into this team, against Premier League opposition, could have a massive negative impact on their careers. The gap between U18s and Premier League football is massive.
Dont care about the kids to be honest.
It appears none of them are ready to step up.
What could be done, is try different CB options out of the 4 we have. (Harry is not an option)
Varane - Lindelof
Varane - Jones
Varane - Bailly
Etc....
And don't play the players about to leave for free.
Mason really fecked the shit didn't he. Could have been some player, and all this could have been so much different. Little scumbag
It appears none of them are ready to step up.
What could be done, is try different CB options out of the 4 we have. (Harry is not an option)
Varane - Lindelof
Varane - Jones
Varane - Bailly
Etc....
And don't play the players about to leave for free.
Mason really fecked the shit didn't he. Could have been some player, and all this could have been so much different. Little scumbag
Well, somehow Barcelona can play youngsters but United not.
Who are you talking about in that Barca team that’s starting equivalent to our U18 players?
Ralf and the club should determine the appropriate style of play for United and stick to it no matter the results until the end of the season. Leave all who won't be here next season out. Let them enjoy themselves in Dubai.
We don't have enough young players ready to completely change the team. We've got quite a few out on loan who could be contenders for playing out the rest of the season, but as it is we can start Mejbri and Elanga, and we can have Garnacho (17) on the bench.
We were not exactly out of the race for 4th when Van Gaal sent that bunch of kids to take more important roles in really important matches. The thing is that we need some kind of defibrilator hit to make sure everyone starts working their socks off by feeling not so secure about their spots anymore. For as long as we keep on playing the likes of Rashford and Captain Fatfeck over others who should have a chance, we are strapping ourselves when we should not have to.
I'm not sure we need to throw in kids if the idea is to replace Maguire and Rashford to "give them a kick up the arse." Rashford isn't a certain starter anymore and we have Bailly, for all the good he does. Or Jones, I guess.
Personally I don't think it will make any difference, if they've got no pride to play the game then seeing the bench for a few games won't really matter. Rashford is already losing game time and we've seen no response.
But throwing in a bunch of kids is a more complicated question because it's not just about sending messages. It's also what's good for the young player, are they ready to handle it, are they remotely good enough for PL football. We have to be careful with them. The real stand outs should be looked at - but that should be an ongoing process, it shouldn't be about hitting a button because fans have mentally written the season of.
There's a duty to do the right thing for the young players to set them up in football. Maybe we have been too cautious with the likes of Mejbri, but I think overall it's very much a decision taken based on individuals not an overarching response to the club situation.
brilliantExcellent post - I agree, it's very easy to just want to throw everything out and reset but we've got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater as it were. We're responsible for these youngsters and if groomed right alongside a healthy slice of luck they can prop our team up for a number of years but if we rush them and they then get injured or lose all confidence it's a blow to us and potentially disastrous for their careers.
Throwing the kids in while the team and club are in the gutter might not be the best thing for their development.
Which ones?
Last thing we need is to find another McTominay
Last thing we need is to find another McTominay
I would put a few more on the bench. What is the point of filling it with players who can't be bothered and leaving anyway. Mata will be off, Pogba, if we have any sense will be off, Lingard is off. Rashford needs dropping altogether as well.
Elanga’s lack of concentration actually cost us the game last night as he left Dalot to mark 3 people by himself.
I don’t think the kids are the answer quite honestly at our club. The facts are we overrate our youth far too much here.
Elanga for example looks a decent player but really nothing special. I’m just not seeing what others are obviously. He doesn’t really pass my eye test as a player we need.
The only youth players I think will possibly make the cut are Hannibal, Ethan Laird, Mengi & Gernacho. We will do well if 1 of them plays for us long-term you just cannot rely on youth academy’s at the very top of the game.
I don’t think the kids are the answer quite honestly at our club. The facts are we overrate our youth far too much here.
Elanga for example looks a decent player but really nothing special. I’m just not seeing what others are obviously. He doesn’t really pass my eye test as a player we need.
The only youth players I think will possibly make the cut are Hannibal, Ethan Laird, Mengi & Gernacho. We will do well if 1 of them plays for us long-term you just cannot rely on youth academy’s at the very top of the game.
The gulf between playing at youth level and Premiership or European level is massive. Very few special talents can adapt and be successful. United have been bringing youth through the system more than most clubs.
You need to have the right environment to be able to play young players. Playing them in a team that is not functioning well could cause serious damage to their futures.