To be fair, our last 5 games against Palace have been 2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw, which isn't amazing.Who Palace?
I think you have the wrong club mate! We beat Palace with a member of our so called poor midfield scoring that day!!
Donny Van De Beek / LOAN to Everton
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True, not great.
But we've finished above then in the league consistently
which is usually a good indicator of how good a team and it's individual components is in comparison.It’s also hilarious that after holding onto him for 18 months the one time we look likely letting him go, it’s to a side who won’t really play him in his best position/won’t be able to get him in without tweaking things a bit.He makes no sense for Palace
He plays like their best player, in the same role. Just why...
I think we've a better midfield than Palace just because Palace's is far from outstanding, and Gallagher is a very good player but as an attacking midfielder Bruno is still clearly better. However, I wouldn't say that a midfield is the only reason why a team is higher in the table. Wolves for example, I'd take their defensive midfield over McFred any day. But they have average forwards and scoring power, whereas we have a few levels above (even though they get in each other's way and don't show it all the time). When United won a few leagues in the later Fergie years, arguably Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal had better midfields than United... but United had the best defence and attack, which made the difference.True, not great.
But we've finished above then in the league consistently
Vieira has been moving Palace in a more progressive way, so he could play Van de Beek and Gallagher as advanced midfielders with a holder behind. Van de Beek would be fairly used to playing 4-3-3 at Ajax that way?It’s also hilarious that after holding onto him for 18 months the one time we look likely letting him go, it’s to a side who won’t really play him in his best position/won’t be able to get him in without tweaking things a bit.
VDB must be absolute shithouse in training for a second manager to give him next to nothing game time!
I agree with you on all the above.
I was trying to state a point that Palaces midfield still wouldn't be better than ours even with DVDB.
I would definitely have Gallagher however, Although your right in saying that Bruno is still the better player.
It's amazing how things can pan out in football.
Years after one of the all-time best midfield rivalries between Keano and Vieira, Vieira now finds himself managing our future Roy Keane himself.
See you in 6 months Donny.
Years after one of the all-time best midfield rivalries between Keano and Vieira, Vieira now finds himself managing our future Roy Keane himself.
See you in 6 months Donny.
Will be a 6 and two 8s I think.
Better opposition:
Kouyate
Gallagher VDB
Poorer opposition
Hughes
Gallagher VDB
Not sure I see him playing as the 6 tbh.
Crystal Palace seems about his level so far. If he can even do it in the Premier League.
Was going to say, if he's not better than Hughes or Kouyate, what the hell is he doing at us!
If you can tell what his level is from the game time he has been given here...you’re a better man than me.
He'd play alongside Gallagher, Viera is quite an interesting manager and is trying to make them a lot more possession based (no mean feat when you thin of how Hodgson had them playing) would like to see him get game time in the PL.It’s also hilarious that after holding onto him for 18 months the one time we look likely letting him go, it’s to a side who won’t really play him in his best position/won’t be able to get him in without tweaking things a bit.
Not with any kind of certainty but there hasn't been much to be impressed with so far.
As a midfielder, he can surely only benefit from working under PV for a period of time.
Some PL minutes will be valuable for Donny and come the summer we should have a better idea one way or another if he has a future at Old Trafford.
Some PL minutes will be valuable for Donny and come the summer we should have a better idea one way or another if he has a future at Old Trafford.
Don't get this loan at all unless Gallagher is going back to Chelsea. They are very similar players. 8/10 hydrids who arrive late, break lines and find space in the box. You wouldn't play both together unless you played a 3 box 3 or a 4222 and even then one would be inverted and in unfamiliar areas as both tend to drift to the right half space. Palace don't play this way and don't have the money not to play both at the same time.
I used to dismiss the “shit in training” theory, but perhaps that’s it. No sane observer could argue that Fred or McTominay is a better midfielder than Van De Beek.
Both managers value physicality high, they just don't rate his ball playing ability to make up for that, which is fine. The only question is why did we buy him when you know what you value in a player.
Dalot's current form should make people think twice about how important an actual run of games is. When people say Donny has had chances it's bollocks.
When he can’t even earn the chances to play due to how he is in training it’s pretty damning. If he was tearing it up in training, he’d get his chance. Sounds like he’s most likely too busy getting bullied by our under 15s team to get a run of games.
I agree with that but people should also realise there is a reason Dalot got a game. He trained well and the manager gave him a go, he took his chance and got more chances.
Donny got a game, blew it, so its his fault. (Young Boys btw)
Elanga was not in the squad under Ole, he impressed Ralf in 2 training sessions in an area of the pitch where we have the most talent. The manager can play Lingard, Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood in that position but Elanga got game time.
Donny can't even get a game when he is 4th in choice in a 2 midfield.
DVB just strikes me as a perfect player for a team that is performing. Could slot in and do a job pretty decent job at city or Liverpool I’d say...and then when one of the favourites is out he could start a fair number of games.
problem is that we are so erratic in both team and individual performances. Even if he is not at fault - like his debut...he could find himself as a part of a shit show and subsequently sacrificed for a safer option. I can’t see any reason why we haven’t used him more...even just to refresh the midfield after 65 minutes.
problem is that we are so erratic in both team and individual performances. Even if he is not at fault - like his debut...he could find himself as a part of a shit show and subsequently sacrificed for a safer option. I can’t see any reason why we haven’t used him more...even just to refresh the midfield after 65 minutes.
Agreed, he couldn't get any meaningful minutes over apparently, and sometimes objectively poor McTominay, Fred or Matic, so let's keep fingers crossed whether he can at least play on CP level and get into their very average team.
Why not let him go on loan for the rest of the season and see how he fairs. You can’t keep giving him the occasional 10 minute cameo and expect miracles. He needs a string of games to even be match fit let alone firing on all fronts.
let him go and play some football. Premier league would be better.
if he’s good, keep him for new manager or sell him and get our money back.
Keeping him from playing is so pointless. Makes 0 sense and isn’t fair on him really.
let him go and play some football. Premier league would be better.
if he’s good, keep him for new manager or sell him and get our money back.
Keeping him from playing is so pointless. Makes 0 sense and isn’t fair on him really.
Positions 3-16 in the league is extremely competitive. Strengthening any PL team is not smart.
Actually, if he doesn't go to a club battling for top 4, it benefits us because VDB can play against our top 4 competition, but not against us.
Assuming we think Donny is any good.
We’ve played the last 3 games with Jeffrey Schlupp in centre mid, maybe you’re overthinking it a little.
If this happens, it will be good for him and the club.
But that is the point... *IF* he can't handle it... SELL HIM.
Either he can make it or he can't but we are in a perpetual quandary of wondering if.
Play him or sell him is all I am asking.
He's just an upgrade on Mata, just a luxury player who moves well in between lines when we put teams under pressure, just a bit younger. Unfortunately his movement is still limited, the inability to impose on the game very evident and we as a team doesn't create that much of dominance to justify giving such an average player who only function under certain circumstances some game time.
Makes you wonder why we waste so much money on him but I guess it's the case of a classic system player like Kagawa, Mkhytaryan who failed to take the step up. Of ocurse playing a team which is a bit disjointed won't help, but only a real quality players can do it and consistently so.
Unfortunately EPL is just a monster league and every game is a tough fight and some players will find it extremely difficult to match the tempo and quality.
Rangnick said he performs well in training
No sorry this is BS and barely worth replying to. A game in a dead rubber with a bunch of reserves is not a chance. And back to my original point a chance is a run of games, not a single one. Dalot played against Villarreal earlier this season and had a shocker, he has now had a run of games and is in his best form.
I won't miss him tbh. Never rates him in the little we have seen and never got the calls for him to start.
Will be funny if he can't get a game for Palace. Hopefully he does ok there so we can see him in the summer.
Will be funny if he can't get a game for Palace. Hopefully he does ok there so we can see him in the summer.
This is why no new players will be brought in until a new manager is in place.
True.
The clinching argument in the old was it Ole or Woody making the transfer decisions debate. Players he wanted were not bought, players he did want were sold and the same thing with contract renewals. A DOF who is on the same page as the Manager is essential to any kind of sane transfer strategy and squad building. We had an accountant making these decisions which is why we have a squad that looks like Frankenstein and multiple players who don't fit the vision of the current or previous manager.
The difference is the new manager came in and decided Dalot was good enough or at least suitable for his goals for the time being.
The same manager throws VDB on with a few minutes left and doesn't start him despite only having a handful of midfield options.
So yes, runs of games are clearly important to a player performing at his best but you have to earn that opportunity first and VDB has never done that at this club. He's rarely even trusted to come on with a significant period remaining which tells you all you need to know about how they rate him or his suitability. Actions speak louder than words, of course he's unlikely to say VDB is complete bollocks in training if the lad is trying.
The same manager throws VDB on with a few minutes left and doesn't start him despite only having a handful of midfield options.
So yes, runs of games are clearly important to a player performing at his best but you have to earn that opportunity first and VDB has never done that at this club. He's rarely even trusted to come on with a significant period remaining which tells you all you need to know about how they rate him or his suitability. Actions speak louder than words, of course he's unlikely to say VDB is complete bollocks in training if the lad is trying.
Yeah, Macarthur has been a good, underrated player for a while now, and he's hurt all the time it seems now that he's old?
Does Vieira see Eze as a winger?
Genuinely looking forward to seeing him get a run of games hopefully if this goes through, could form an interesting partnership with Gallagher, who would Palace have sitting as a 6 if this ends up being the case?
Dalot also had 3 managers who believed in him. Ole prevented him from going to Dortmund last summer, and of course Jose signed him over Ricardo Pereira that year
I don't really like a move to Crystal Palace as surely he should be playing for a team at a higher level.
However at this stage he really needs game time so if he joins them on loan and plays most of the remainder of the season that is a positive. I think he will surprise a lot of people once he gets a consistent run of games. There is a very good player in him and he needs a manager who believes in him and game time to show what he is really about.
However at this stage he really needs game time so if he joins them on loan and plays most of the remainder of the season that is a positive. I think he will surprise a lot of people once he gets a consistent run of games. There is a very good player in him and he needs a manager who believes in him and game time to show what he is really about.
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